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Exult

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Blog Comments posted by Exult

  1. Nice to see you around here again!

    Quote

    It has been a while     ...

    Same here, have only done some occasional kiting related stuff lately. (“Excuse list": The nearby parking (previously used for quick quad line kite fixes) has mostly been more of a construction site since a year soon. Apart from some personal reasons, much (non-summer) spare time has been into daily operating the tiled fireplaces after work and chopping a lot of logs. This to avoid the heating costs that has turned "impressive" lately. Also picked up another hobby, scything and maintenance a meadow to help a couple that we know with their hobby sheep farm. Well it is still on a field, but without kites.)

    However during the last few days I've been watching several (mostly oldie goodie) educational/inspirational kiting videos and felt the hunger:

  2. I have said it before ( https://kitelife.com/forum/topic/8756-a-first-model-kite-probing-the-kite-building-ground/?do=findComment&comment=70719&_rid=10687 ) and I say it again “SLKs are scaaary - personally I'd wouldn't like to meet one in a dark alley...🙂”. As a quad and dual line pilot I find these SLKs a mystery. However, some day I intend to learn… Keep up the good work and get challenge/experience by whatever nature decides to throw on you!

  3. > With absolutely no help from my able assistant.

    I think that even if the cat would be in the way lying on the ripstop, consider it a success if it keeps its claws in.

    > I tried to fly in the backyard and had moderate success with the light wind glider kite …        …I’m sure the neighbors found it amusing watching me stumble around the backyard with a kite string in one hand and a cell phone in the other.

    Working at home most of the days I often use the low morning and evening wind on the sheltered parking close to my home. This wind is quite free from turbulence and quite suitable for my Rev Indoor and B-series std sometimes. And yes of course it is an odd activity that no one else is doing here and is fully visible by the neighbours and other people passing. There are few pandemic related mandatory restrictions here so I could go to a field or the beach if I wanted to, but the parking just happens to be so close.

    • Like 1
  4. Quote

    ... Instead, the lack of any type of deadline only increases my tendency to put things off. ...

    I think that the very process of announcing and sharing what one is doing (as you do here) puts some kind of pressure to finish whatever project that is ongoing. Good luck with your kite making!

    • Haha 1
  5. On 1/9/2020 at 6:20 AM, DTill said:

    Don't ignore the talent of some of those indoor pilots

    I know enough to know that it is very much left to learn about controlling RC planes. There is no intention of really ignoring skills here - My experience in RC planes is quite limited. I did some 1-channel RC glider piloting as a youngster/child. Much later I made a (was it?) about 25USD-bargain: Flug-Modell-Simulator (FMS, https://modelsimulator.com/ ) with a USB connected RC control-like box that could connect to the desk top PC when started in “Windows XP mode” (the “RC-control” could even be used when playing “Battle of Britain”). Flying the virtual model planes could be done with some practice (even upside down “over one’s head”), but the model helicopters were almost impossible. With this limited background I can barely relate to all the complex moves that these RC-planes (and upside down flying helicopters!) could do at the event. When the model planes at the event just hang vertically like a hovering helicopter it looks impressive, but I have no idea if that would be an extra difficult trick or not. When they do somersault-like rotations/rolls quickly sequentially around on several axes it gets really difficult to follow. I guess it is much like viewing high pace DLK tricking if you are not used to it.

    Another reason for the focus on the Rev Indoor and not the model planes is my own recent progress as a quad indoor newbie. After first un-boxing (un-sleeving?) the kite about 1.5 years ago I tried it a few times. Even with the mods in https://kitelife.com/2012/03/01/modding-rev-indoor/ (or similar) and an initial full pallet of beginner’s optimism, it quite soon felt like close to pointless exercises. The “totally incomprehensible kite” was just seeking the ground as I would have been a complete general kiting novice (though in zero wind). Eventually I hid it shamefully behind the other kites closest to the wall and (tried to) forget about it. Three months ago I found my way to learn the Rev Indoor in the sense of keeping it in the air/getting past the survival mode and start to address individual components/moves of the control.

    On 1/9/2020 at 6:20 AM, DTill said:

    You have more in common with them than you think.

    My hope was that they also would realize that. It was more kite interest during the indoor event here compared to when being on a general field/beach somewhere, but only a few questions of where I bought the kites (but on the other hand I didn’t investigate how to get their kind of gear either). It was nice to hear from a participant that something “new” was presented (well actually the kite models were actually mostly not so new). Another fun comment was when they had assumed from a distance that the kite was motorized and thought about how it was propelled even while approaching it.

  6. An Erroneous Step Resulting in an Annoying Pause – A Motivational Text (I hope)

    “Yesterday, All my troubles seemed so far away
    Now it looks as though they're here to stay”
           --The Beatles

    Just as a started going reasonably well with the indoors stuff and the soreness from the latest looong indoor session (the event described above) had recently gone away it went wrong. I hurried up one day, ran along a pavement, then stepped on a small innocently looking edge/”crack” not much wider than the heel and fell. No fractures, but the foot went on hurting. And what is worse, me and my wife have a daily pedometer competition where we text each other during the day in order to brag as soon as it looks like one of us is going to win. I now must face a series of big daily defeats! 😠

    “Suddenly, I'm not half the man I used to be
    There's a shadow hanging over me”

    For me it is a remainder of how fragile everything is. Even when you get something as mild as cold e.g. you learn to appreciate the times that when you are well.

    The foot will delay “the indoor project” somewhat. I guess that the next thing I’ll be practice indoors will be more limited (...and focused). E.g. one could practice keeping the kite over the head with (for a good reason) with minimal amount of steps taken. That could only occasionally be done with the 8.2m lines during the latest session and I assume that doing it using a shorter line set would be trickier. The indoor place that I have a bit more regular access to you can just squeeze in the 3.5m lines (perhaps I should make a 3m (10foot) line set to use there instead)? (Alternatively, I wait for zero wind and practice outdoors instead)

    smallIndoorPlace.jpg
    Possible practice location, but a bit on the smaller side. Another more neutral way of seeing it is that this place represents one set of practice conditions. When doing 360ies here it is sometimes required to stop the forward motion of the kite, while you back a few steps to get away out from the obstacle.

    Another thing to practice in the mean time are the catches (starting with the kite standing on the ground). For some reason with the Rev Indoor, lines end up on top of my hand/arm when I reach out to catch the kite. This is undesirable, since this limits how soon I can then throw the kite again because I need to get the lines in order first.

    The whole thing makes me think of this quote that I found on a QOTD-server:

    “Worrying is like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do, but it doesn’t get you anywhere.”
                – (Attributed to at least three different persons, the truth, if ever known, has been diluted)

    I think that it equally well applies to complaining about the circumstances.

  7. So now I have some experience from low wind sessions outdoors with, mostly Rev. 1.5 B-series std with P90 LE and two two semi recent Rev Indoor (outdoors) sessions – still had the feeling that the 360-ies were kind of hurried. After this I have had a few (five) indoor sessions with the Rev Indoor (and some Rev 1.5) and now the 360-ies start to feel relaxed. Therefore I soon might start to ask the sensible questions.

    In the mean time I’d like to ask🙂:
    In the same situation as in the video above, could you imagine doing the same routine with the bridle removed (while kite and lines remaining the same)? If so, would there be any major changes in set up, required input and the end result of the flying?

  8. On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 12:41 PM, Paul LaMasters said:

    maybe a little more curvature built into the leading edge ... so it "cups air" better

     

    20 hours ago, riffclown said:

    You can do a stack with the flush LE but it does make the stack lines a bit trickier.

    I’m all ears and learning. So, if I got this correctly, the couping is not only from the flex when pulling on all four lines and the spars that happen to be in place. It is also sewn in from the start by adding a LE curvature when the sail being is being flush? So how does this pre LE curvature induced couping happen? Is the flex happening earlier without much pulling being required or is it a constant shape when using the kite as it already was under more load? So with curved LE to coup air better you gain forward flight earlier when pulling and increased sensibility when pulling on all four lines? With a straighter LE rapid side side slides gets possible?

    And regarding the two different stack lines configurations what would the difference be?

  9. Thank you very much for that offer! However the time for that is not now. First doing would be needed to make the necessary mistakes, identifying the difficulties, by practice making it vivid enough to remember the answers well and getting a good enough reference to fit the answers into and last to come up with the good questions addressing (as close as possible) the cores of the difficulties.

    • Like 1
  10. I have played this video many times with and without music to try to figure out the various parts of what is happening. One of the things I've looked for is when the feet are not moving much to figure out how to low wind pilot as economically as possible. It seems to coincide with having the kite in a close to horizontal gliding position. I have also looked for the same thing in:

    https://kitelife.com/forum/topic/9011-rev-footage-by-drone/

    As @SHBKF says, this is a highly inspirational video for trying really short lines in no/low wind. Ohh, did I happen to say that last sentence? What are the excuses now not to make a ~4m line set (hardly the cost of the line material) and leave the house early in a windless morning heading for a no witness forest glade and try to do a first QLK 360deg?

    Yes finally, the "SS Great Britain" video made me think of the Fred Astaire dance with the hat/coat rack, just replace the rack with a QLK in the first half of the below video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFD1nky4QTI

    • Like 1
  11. 4 hours ago, Wayne Dowler said:

    Interesting!

    No one I know that flies indoors, uses "handles". They usually make loops out of bridle line and either thread it on like sleeving or just larkshead the lines to them.

    I don't know if I can claim the innovative power of ignorance here. More of that I had a problem to solve (not knowing the ideal line length) - therefore the winder handles (which is, as you already know, by no means a new thing for at least cheaper DLKs in general). If I would re-do the handles/line arrangement the second iteration would be to mark an equal line length at several places over the line and then make the mini handles more standard DLK winder like (to speed up the winding/unwinding process), but with an additional adjustment knob added to take a few extra turns around to equalize the lines when necessary. I'd probably leave the rubber bands there, but still get hold of two pieces of a large diameter heat shrink tube to cover much of the handle and give a well defined exit of the line at the end edge/corner of each handle.

    4 hours ago, Wayne Dowler said:

    A very few use finger straps. 

    For indoor kiting I don't think that the difference between mini handles and say finger straps or holding around a line loop would be as large as for full size outdoor DLK. For indoor everything would end up near your fingertips I assume, while holding a handle (for a power/speed kite?) would end up nearer towards your palm. Disclaimer: After one indoor session I'm not an authority here.

    And as always, I'm much jealous of that indoor kiting arena of yours...

  12. I'm sorry for the loss, but can't help thinking of those kites you seem to have gotten access to I must confess. A new kite can often lead you to discover new aspects. What can a bunch of new kites do then? If you gain any insight from this or is taken into a new direction I'd like to hear about that. Also great that you can involve your kids while kiting. I haven't had any luck doing this lately.

  13. The barely 0.5m fly training was intended to get you into seeing the other part of basic control, namely that that line tension when stalled (and not stalled) propels the kite. To this point, for you, pulling on one line means that you turn and that the other wing tip will get ahead of the line that gets pulled. Stalled flying (like when landing, before an axel, side sliding or just for the sake of maintaining a stall) is the opposite - the wing that you pull will rise. To make the connection that a tight line will propel the kite or wing half is good also when avoiding powered lawn darts crashing the kite or (later) when you axel and initially (during the first fraction of the trick) move the wing that you pull on.

    I see no reason delaying to get acquainted with this part (non-turning, power-up/down what you pull/relax) of flying. There is no substitute for learning this than doing. A fruit of this training might be gentler handling, leading to a less frequently broken kite and more air (than repair) time.

  14. Under every square metre of sky there is square metre of ground and I think that you are missing out here. Your focus seem to be to swoop around in the sky and mostly do whatever to avoid the ground (don't misunderstand me, left and right turn training until the control is automatic is also much necessary). The ground is there to land and start from (in various ways), fly closely to (slowly initially) and involve in tricking (later). My suggestion is to go out when there is little wind and just barely fly. Get a feeling for how hard you need to pull by only flying up 0.5m and then let the kite land, then a little higher (land again) and then more. Launching/stalling/landing is an excellent exercise - postpone the snap stall training for the moment being. The just-barely-fly-training could help to go easier on the kite during the start and help you to avoid the speed kite like launch and make your centre-T fittings last.

    Talking about the ground - use it to move yourself downstreams/upstreams to control how hard you are pulling the lines (unless the lines are almost as long as the field). Again, barely flying/maintaining a stall is a good exercise - it forces you to use the feet to achieve a goal. Use movements to slow down the kite, speeding up the kite, maintaining a stall or extending the wind window.

    When you get the launch/stall/landing going (and your feet) you could instead land from above by flying to the ground, turn the kite while moving towards it and then land. The final part of the landing should then already be familiar to you. If there is as much wind as it is in the video I'd recommend to start out with these type of landings close to the edge (or another day).

    Also to help forum members commenting on your videos, do them shorter leaving the parts that need input/discussion remaining - not necessarily the parts were everything went well (the long raw uncut video could exist in parallel with the shorter highlights video). The 30 minutes video here I must confess I digested by taking many samples from rather than viewing it from the start to the end. If a video is longer than five minutes I expect that many will skip parts of it. Several videos from many sessions in one blog post, where each video shows a certain aspect (like landings or starts) is also one option that could guide a discussion. But, what do I know - I've posted no videos at all...

     

    I wish you happy kiting and progress in your pace,
    Exult

    • Like 1
  15. :)Thank you for this documentary video. It is evident that it is a righteous take down of an unauthorized SLK delta by the quad police. It should never have been granted access to the field in the first place.:)

     

    To clarify things: I'm not a multi-line kite extremist - I love all kites and do not believe in turning the field into an enclosure!

    Btw., Nice flying. In addition to normal flying you here also need to be able to judge the distance to the kites.

  16. On 1/1/2017 at 8:00 AM, Happyspoon said:

    and to learn more about paragliding yourself!

    Some insight only. Flying such a thing myself? - No way José! I prefer to have both my feet on the ground (and don't really like, putting it mildly, any form of roller coasters e.t.c. that my daughters would find at least acceptable). The truly adventurous genes must have skipped one generation. Did try small jumps with a hanglider though a long time ago and permanently decided that it was not for me. Although the feeling (even from these much limited attempts) was out of the ordinary, the risks can never make it worth for me (and it seems to come with large investments and to be much time consuming as well).

    On 1/1/2017 at 8:00 AM, Happyspoon said:

    but I've moved far enough around on the island to have a few clusters of nostalgic sites like this. I had few memories of Clover Point before last year when I started flying. My only notable memory was finding a peregrine falcon

    Come on, I think you might put the threshold too high. Things that are everyday for one person are completely new to another. Things tends to be larger when written down than perceived by oneself during a brief thought. Also consider many people involved in (fictional) arts and literature. The degree of seriousness and attention to details can go over the top there. Why should fragments of real life stories be of less value?

    On 1/1/2017 at 8:00 AM, Happyspoon said:

    In Canada we at least technically can't privately own the shoreline, but even in government parks you usually aren't supposed to pick anything without various licenses (though people often ignore this)

    Sounds like a civilized rule (shoreline) and a sensible counter action (remote area un-authorized mushroom/wild berry picking...) IMHO. It is neither illegal for a Swedish elk or a Canadian moose to eat huge amounts of blue berries- a few berries in a little basket during a Sunday picnic can't be that terrible.

    On 1/1/2017 at 8:00 AM, Happyspoon said:

    My BF used to play with rockets when he was younger but I never got into them.

    Compared to kiting it was a higher share of preparation and looking forward to the result. You also need to fix things (build mostly) even though you have not broken them first as is often the case in kiting (if you are not into kite building i.e.). (Obvious reflections - yes)

    On 1/1/2017 at 8:00 AM, Happyspoon said:

    It sounds like your father was a real pioneer in the kiting world! It must have been inspirational.

    Not really - he was more general in areas like this, but not into kiting. Also at the age when I flew my first dual (eighties) it was a small bonus that it was something that my father didn't do. 
    Take yachts for an example, during summers this was the most common thing to do. It was so frequent and natural thing as a child so that it didn't occupy much thought. Sailing yachts and Stockholm's (inner) achipelago can't wow me even today - even though the nature there can be nice (I have already changed my mind; large and strangely shaped rocks far out in the archipelago in any weather and sunsets in red and yellow with water appearing to have a higher viscosity than usual is something extra). And then sailing also required (non-sailing) efforts - maintaining, taking it into and out of the water and occasionally be guarding the boat club during nights. I'm today boat owning FREE allowing my spare time to be less tied up. Perhaps I'm giving room for my daughters to one day find sailing exotic (though we have rented sailing dinghys a couple of times to at least give them some start)?

    On 1/1/2017 at 8:00 AM, Happyspoon said:

    I'm starting to get my dad interested in learning though :)

    Good luck with this! If it works out this could be a source of OPKs on generous terms.

    • Like 2
  17. When new to (serious) kiting in the end of nineties I got some (25min?) initial advice there (in the LKS in Stockholm at the time), but found out that the Prism kites then offered was slightly to expensive for me then (I then chose to honor kite selling shops on the Swedish west coast selling HQ kites instead). Life got periods when getting the bacon on the table is the main focus and others when the focus can be more of not to miss out on what life has to offer*. When I started over again with kiting I bought three old kite models (kites that I had drooled over in the past but now could get to a very good price) and one new (4D). After the Stockholm city situated shop closed I've only bought smaller stuff like a Prism tube-tail, The advanced way to fly DVD, higher quality yo-yo for me and as gifts... But would I ever look for a Zephyr (which seem to be highly rated by members in KL) I know where I would go. B.t.w. today I saw that they still offer an Alien according to their web site.

    I remember when I went there to by a Prophecy at close to 50% discount. He went to the shelf where the kites were kind of inserted, searched and the retracted the hand empty. He said:
      "Ohh.. it looks like we have sold the last sample unfortunately"
    He then paused and then looked at me while appearing to picture something for himself and said with a lowered voice:
      "But it is a fantastic kite"
    To say that I was disappointed is an understatement . Don't misunderstand me, the shop owner is a very helpful and patient person. However, whenever there is a video with a Prophecy in it, I still prefer to peer hard to make the vision blurry so that I can pretend that instead that there is an Illusion being shown. That was also the kite I ended up buying that day. A few months later, when asked, he never hesitated selling me the three last remaining spare (brittle and discontinued) LLEs (even though the Illusion was the shop owners own favorite)  - he just said:
      "Yes, you may."


    * What things cost is kind of funny. Today I was at the dentist's because one of my teeth is ruined and that needed a crown/implant (the previous "budget" fix was broken). After 20min (of total 1:45 exhausting hours) they said ohh... we need a pillar as well that is 1500SEK (~150USD) extra. Discussing the matter is hard with lots of stuff in your mouth. This extra sum would correspond to an Echo kite and the total sum, I fear, might correspond to almost two Fazer XXLs (has anyone done this sort of multi kiting?:))! There have been occasions when I have had way more fun for my money than I've had today. Also they said until the next visit in three weeks, only eat soft food like porridge and soup. Could this be a way to financially compensate this since porridge is cheap food?

    Thumbs up for your LKS support SHBKF!

    • Like 2
  18. Take your time with your move and the settling down process. A pause in any activity can also bring fuel for the time when you start again. (I also think that the real estate market would slow down if people really could remember every part of how much work it is to move.)

    Even if I originally suggested the one handed FA pull (just) here (by no means absolute original), seeing it in the video reminded me of it and made it more clear and "mentally available" for me to bring to the field. You also specified a timing for the fracturing second pull (1/4 through the axel) in the video. Now I can/intend to focus more on the moving forward/catch phase of the FA. Trick discussions are helpful in unexpected ways. Also when seeing this video I notice the fast pace of which you have been learning. I think I said it before that ending the slide by a FA looks good. I've started to try them myself.

    I also hope your snow crash in the "First Snowfall in Victoria..." wasn't too painful. I recently experienced that ice patches can be hard for your kite's wing tips - but soft snow I can't imagine how you could (destructively) crash a kite in that. But on the other hand, it seemed to be a lot of rubble on the beach.

    • Like 1
  19. On 11/27/2016 at 8:28 PM, Happyspoon said:

    I think I did this by mistake in low wind recently but promptly forgot it happened. I'm absolutely going to try this next time I'm on the field. I wish there were already a name for what I call 'push axels'! In that trick list they are just referred to as 'another way to axel'. 

    Another name for "my" push axle could be a backwards/reverse axle (unless already being used for something else). Suggestions for your axel version: push axel, push-spin axel, short-spin axel, short push-spin axel... ??

    The above raise the question why are some tricks popular (in attempting), while others are more or less forgotten(?)? E.g. a half axel, to get the second input right when completing the axel I find tricky (though I started to address it again now and then), while a rixel follows naturally from a sloppy overdone input. Yet the half axel is much more common in videos and discussions. Is the rixel not considered tricky enough, only worth doing as a part of a trick sequence (and then not mentioned) or just seen as a failed half axel? Another example is the above reverse/push axel. If you strive for flat axels this could be something to experiment with - when you let one side/wing half sink back the nose will be lowered.

    In my opinion a trick performed as you mean every part of it looks good. Preferably you also fly between the tricks/sequences as you planned/meant it - yes flying with intent ( http://kitelife.com/kl-archive/tutorials/tutorials-dual-line/flying-with-intent/ ) all over again. The only two exceptions to fly with intent I find is if one just try inputs out without knowing what is going to happen (getting rarer nowadays without saying it is a good thing) and the other is (possibly) if you just practice one trick and quickly just wants to get into position to try it again. On the bonus side is that you get more time/focus on the trick. On the negative side is that if one doesn't work on flying nicely between the tricks one might miss getting the good habit of flying with intent between the tricks. I also try to be clear about when the trick has ended and the figure flying starts (but I guess there might be others with different goals that think otherwise).
    When just testing input, it often involve a flared position with uncertain exit. Handling the often then tumbling kite is part of the practice for me.
     

    On 11/27/2016 at 8:28 PM, Happyspoon said:

    I'm still exploring turtles a little cautiously because the quantum is kinda tough to pull out of the turtle (it drops pretty far during the recovery) but I like the sound of the spin stall-to-turtle!

    Try doing a lazy, but exit a bit early. At least for my Shadow it makes the turtle exits easier.

    On 11/27/2016 at 8:28 PM, Happyspoon said:

    Thanks again for your insight Exult, I feel like these conversations really help guide my thinking while on the field.

    Me to, I also think the this helps me to remember/surface things and make them more available when I reach the field. Putting one's thoughts down in text force you to organise your thoughts, rethink thoughts to remember them, verify your beliefs and also brings up new ideas and connections of facts. What a think I miss out on to some degree is the last step to bring it out to the field (not that I'm out of things to practice though).

    On 11/27/2016 at 8:28 PM, Happyspoon said:

    Another thing for my checklist for the next flight.

    What about creating a real one for print out and on the field pencil editing? I begun thinking of what I'd like to have on mine.

  20. >Every time I watch the footage of my sessions I can see line tension screwing up the trick.

    By slack, do you mostly mean running down with the wind or flinging your arms forward? Could a snappier execution of a trick substitute at least some of the "running with the wind" or large arm movements? Personally I'd say that my snap turtles work with little arm movement or in harder wind. However I don't know how/if snappier execution can substitute slack when starting a fade.

    > Less than a week left to get an entry in! I'm trying to get an entry that...

    I've said it before and I say it again - you are very "kite on"!

    > I've also been working a bit on 'Push Axels' -- Axels started from a 180  90 degree push turn instead of a stall.

    Your push axels (at 12:24 in Slide-Axels-Fades on My Prism Quantum... video)- they look fun. As described in the Push Axels - Simple Way... video push and pull the lower wing without a pause where the kite is stalled. This is like a spin axle, but with a short push spin and you axle with the same hand as you used when controlling the turn/spin.  Does the omitted stall affect in what wind range that the trick works best in? I ought to figure them out and try them. Also I like the side slide at 15:05 where you stop the side ways movement and then resume it by angling the kite.

    For me (without knowing if there are any official definition) a push axel is somewhat different. Start from a stall, then rather than focusing on pulling on one side instead push on one side so that wing sinks back and around. It is probably so that you slightly almost without knowing it will pull the front wing when the other sinks back. When the rear wing is pointing from you after the kite has completed 1/4 revolution you can also pull on the rear wing slightly to help it forward again. This was something I did regularly ... by end of the nineties ... time to do some rehearsal.

    Talking about the Slide-Axels-Fade video again you seem to have gotten the fade launches going and be reliable as well (at 5:32 e.g.). When I do fractured axels I kind of feel a bit in a hurry (and I only use one line when pulling the kite on its back) and the reliability is not what I want. Fade launches work OK (I use two lines to pull it on it's back here). Is there any difference (in feeling) when doing these two fade tricks?


    > From that list I turned what I thought had been constant failures at Half Axels into repeatable successes with Rixels! This is the most reliable way I have right now of getting into a turtle.

    For me the turtle initialisation learning order was (is?):
    1. Fly to the top of the window. Then start with your hands close to your shoes and then quickly throw them (hands) upwards as high as you can reach.
    2. Fly to the top of the window, then quickly and lightly pull on one line (the kite will flip).
    3. Doing snap turtles. Here my quite pitch happy (or turtle prone) Maerstrale was of help when learning.
    4. From half axels and cascade attemps tha might end in a turtle "by themselves".
    5. From a spin stall/hard turn. When the nose is pointing upwards, make a sudden release.

    The one I use most today is snap turtle because I find it reliable, quick and can be performed with little effort (naah... this sounds like I'm too comfortable).
     

    • Like 1
  21. On 11/4/2016 at 2:48 PM, Wayne Dowler said:

    the LE launch away from the center of the window - the kites odd shape seemed to hold it down instead of helping it up. Otherwise it was fun to fly.

    I had to examine this, so yesterday I brought the Alien to the field. I initially found it difficult (didn't work i.e.) to LE-launch it from anywhere in the window. It just fell over to the wrong LE instead of taking off. Only towards the edge of the window (with the nose pointing outwards) and by doing some less standard launch input could I make the LE-launch to work. Instead of holding the top wing closer than the lower wing (~steering from ground by pulling) and then pull the lower wing in action by sweeping your arm as normal, I replaced the lower wing sweep by running backwards from the kite (still maintaining the pull on the upper wing). Success-ratio of launches towards the end of the window: 2/5. Yes, I found it tricky.

    • Like 1
  22. Are you actively putting the kite on it's back here (at 0:16 and 0:30) by axeling? If so congrats for that level of control. ... When seeing it for the second time to get the times of extra interest I noticed that I had missed your comment (at 0:33): "Grr the dreaded half axle to turtle". OK, so at least the second turtle wasn't intentional. Well for an observer it could have just as well been on purpose and it could also have been the start of another trick (I tell myself because I someday would like to learn to initiate a lazy Susan that way).

    I also like the part where the kite is darting downwards from the top of window in a straight line (at 1:49) and from that you quite abruptly initiate a side slide outwards (?) towards the edge of the window.

  23. Sorry the quoting feature didn't work, so I needed to use " > " to show the quotes today

    Happyspoon you have made a very organised and well documented account of where you are today! I'm sure others who are starting out can really use this to get inspiration and an idea of what hopefully awaits!

    > I’m pretty solid at holding a slide, but not at ‘pulling’ the kite past the middle of the window to keep sliding. I have pretty much no practice sliding from the center to the edge of the window.

    I can't either. However, to some extent, especially with my Tramontana, I can to some degree while sliding sometimes go a bit past the centre towards the other wind window end during the right conditions. This is what I try to do: have the arm connected to the trailing wing tip extended much and then move from the kite (but I think that you already doing/discovered that). My thoughts (for what it is worth) is that the sideways angle (one wing tip being closer than the other) drives the kite sideways and can also do that past the centre of the wind window, but all the way to the other wind window edge – no way for me.

    > I think the 'sharpness' of the pull makes much more of a difference than the intensity. I can axle with one finger no problem this way. On the other side, a longer pull almost always ends in a wingtip snag/wrap. Even when the tip doesn't wrap, long pulls rarely get the kite to rotate all the way around.

    Do you mean that a sharp pull is when you just make flick on a line and the intensity is how much momentum your arm/hand gets (and how much of that that gets transferred to the kite)?

    I wish to find a table or a definition list (preferably by someone well familiar with English), that describes/defines flick, pop, tug, lash... Would terminology be needed for pushing and giving slack as well?

    With this finger (flick?) axel there is no risk that the kite will turtle? What I'm thinking of here is when you initiate a turtle by flying high up in the window and make a short light quick tug downwards (and the kite should then tip on its back).

    > ...a well-executed FA. Flatter axles would help

    I haven't thought of this more than lets make a decent axel. I really should try this out (how the fade-init is affected by the axel)! Most of the time when initiating the fade I only tug on one line, but flatter axels might perhaps still help?

    > Half axles- phew, what a challenge still ... I tend to try and pull the kite right into a flare which I think means I'm pulling for too long.

    Did this part about pulling into a fade refer to the second tug? The problematic part for me is the quick pull on the wing that is on the top after the axel movement - i.e. the quick pull on the "new" top wing. So anything you learn about the timing and snappiness of the second tug I'd like to hear about. My ideal is to keep the arms low at all times during the tricking. My guess is that it would be easier to learn the movement with a high hand during the pull on the top wing after the axel - but more difficult to "unlearn". I also wonder if this second pull on the wing that is on top during the latter part of the half axle is the "kick" that gives the trick the alternative name - the "kick turn". Is it so that there can be no "kick turn" without it? As I said before I'm not really focusing on them now. However I've managed to make seven cycles of a half axel cascade on my Hydra consisting of most likely improper half axels without having the kite going on its back (rixeling?). But I think that this more tells something about the kite rather than about my ability to do a half axel cascade. 

    > Cartwheels

    My current goal is to make calm, relaxed and minimal input cart wheels for high aspect ratio kites. Should try my 4D 6m lines set so that I get closer to the kite and see what happens. The risk of breaking the lines (25kg and noo sleeving on the kite side) should make me extra careful in minimising the input.

    >  It might be that I'm always practicing in pretty low wind but I'm finding fade launches tricky.

    I suppose that you are already walking backwards. In very low wind with my 4D I need to do jogging backwards to maintain the fade (which I find tricky to combine with the fine inputs).

    > but for some reason didn't try half axles on it

    Somehow (not meaning to sound offensive) I don't think that that is so important. There are so many aspects of kiting to explore. Perfect an "old" trick or try it with  varying inputs. So many kites to try out the different tricks on, so many tricks and so many possible whether conditions to examine "the moves" in. Seeing what you have achieved in a short time and how structured and persistent you have been I think that there will not be a very long time until you can do them as well. Also, not to forget, when doing advanced kite flying like this there is a need for just rehearsing as well - both more long term and also at the start of each session during the warming up. I've also had thoughts like "why on earth didn't I try this or that during my last session", but I tend to be slightly more relaxed lately. Even if you do active learning you can't do everything at once.

    > "provoking the kite"

    Failed tricks are one source of getting the kite provoked (~testing various inputs and be open regarding the usefulness of the outcome). To better understand trick descriptions (such as http://www.idemployee.id.tue.nl/p.j.f.peters/kites/basics/funcidx.frm.html ) it is of use to know possible movements and part of tricks I believe. Provoking the kite/testing out is a way of getting small building blocks of understanding and practice that then might be identified in or as tricks. As a beginner there is more random tugging/slacking and with time more targeted experimenting.

    The below are tricks/movements I have found out (and might continue to work on) by trying without knowing what the outcome could be or as a result of a failed trick:

    • Snappy turtels   The first time I saw one was in the promotional VHS that came along with my Jam Session (or was it in a promotional section of a trick video?). In a short sequence the Maestrale flew along the ground, making contact without stopping and then doing a short snap turtle as a part of the ground pass. For my un-trained eye it looked like a dry leave driven forward by an autumn storm. Needless to say - this made an impression on me. However I had no idea on how a snap turtle was performed. Snap turtles didn't come as a result of a series of sessions of trying to do them, but more: "Hey what is this? This didn't tangle the line and it could be repeated and then refined." I then later realised that I did a part of that tumbling autumn leave sequence.
    • Rixels (from failed half axel attempts)   It was a long time ago I tried them, but something like this - do a sloppy half axel attempt and be somewhat heavy on the arm that you pull the half axel with (really think I ought to go out and attempt them before sharing how it should be performed since it was a while ago). Same thing here, I was already doing them at the time that I read the description. Notice that the failure of doing one trick (the half axel) lead to another trick (the rixel).
    • A similar "turteling" trick (as above) but starting from a start of a downwards turn   Once again I should try this out so that I could deliver a fresh description (but I won't now). The trick is similar to the rixel, but you initially fly upwards and begin to turn with one hand and then axel with a bit heavy arm (i.e. the other arm than the arm that you are pulling with when doing the turn) as you didn't really mean the axel. This trick is also not from attempting to perform it. Possibly it was from a failed axel attempt. The feeling of the trick (or rather in the arm) when pulling the kite on it's back is a bit like the weary feeling of a really long kiting session. When writing about the rixel and this trick I realise that I've been neglecting them when working on tricks that I learnt more recently.
    • Axel or half axle into a flare and with the other hand investigate a second pull   Vary this second input. What determines if the result is something like a half axel, rising half axel or a fade? Two kites that felt good doing these tests with were the Illusion and the Alien (should try ut on the more recent kites again). To get me into mode to investigate the effect of the second pull I start to think about the trick when the kite is already flared. I don't think so much on the axel part, but do only small movements on the hand that pulls the axel – possibly axel mainly by only angling the wrist from an inward position to a straight wrist position and back again. I hope that I one day will get useful results from this. In the above video "Getting closer to half axels..." I think that you already are investigating the second input.
    • Sleeping beauty   This is another example of a trick that I learned from testing without not really knowing what to expect in detail. As I wrote in a previous blog entry  the unlikely incredible thing happened that this trick just worked the first time attempted (leaving me to figure out what happened and how it worked) and only failed once during the first session doing this trick.

    Funny, just commenting on your statement about "kite provoking" started/continued a lot of trick thought/planning. The above are some of the things a intend to continue to work on and evolve.

    > I went out a few times to try night kiting!

    You are so "kite-on"! I had the idea but I've never tried - for years. How is it? Would you say it is a nice thing to try or is it a valuable because that it offers more sessions during the darker time of the year. Do you learn as much from a session in the dark as from one in full daylight? Was it so dark that flying have been possible at all if it wouldn't have been for the lights during the session when you were out? About the night video I must say that it looks nice, giving you the kind of relaxed feeling of watching fish in an aquarium.

    >(RobB wrote)  I have an Alien, too, but we don't get along, and it stays home.

    I like my Alien (though admittingly I've not used it much during the last six months). It can do double axels ( http://tricksparty.info/en/tricks-in-english/46-double-axel-group-4 ) without any input between the axels (haven't seen that in other kites that I have). It encourages you to try and toss it around. It gives you few line snags. In my opinion it is not so bad in low wind either if you trim it by moving the stand-offs inwards (can't remember if I did anything with the angle of attack as well). Finally and obviously – it is decent in high wind as well. Yes, it feels a bit different, but I have difficulties in describing it. Perhaps because I don't have many kites of that size (span-width 189cm) to compare it to.

    >(RobB wrote) Finally, about the weather watching... tell me that you can't drive past a flagpole without looking up to see which way the wind's blowing ?!?  8)

    I'm into tree top watching to get an idea of the wind, especially birches (with their long hanging twigs) when available.

    >I took your advice and did a bunch of prolonged fades on my Ozone yesterday!

    I'd would like to try that steering as well! This is silly, but that video (Faded fractured axels...) triggers something in me that resembles a competitive mode (Have been working with the FA fade stuff for 1.5 years and have not been thinking of that steering! More focused on start and maintaining it.). Funny, when playing tennis, the tennis matches are not the main thing, so I don't consider myself to be much competitive (well not that I mind the times when playing well or winning).

    • Like 2
  24. On 10/13/2016 at 11:45 PM, Happyspoon said:

    Minimally I guess I should be OK with focusing on figure flying in stronger winds. I'd love to develop the strength and snappiness to 'spank' a kite in slightly higher winds.

    It might be so that your hands already know a snappy turtle initiated from horisontal flight which could be used in harder wind. Consider your early attempt of a half axel http://kitelife.com/forum/blogs/entry/194-lunchtime-slides-stalls-and-a-bunch-of-half-axle-practice/ - you instead briefly went into a turtle. Perhaps continue to work on this snappy turtle work that you accidentally started?

    Another more obvious exercise would be to do a snap stall with conviction and, yes, snappiness while running downwind.

    I assume you would use the Quantum for this harder wind session? I've never tried one - but from the discussions it sounds like it would have a bit heavy frame which would help tricking in these winds.

    Finally, you don't need to develop strength. It is not strength as in power kiting. The inertia of your arms from a snappy movement can be enough to snap stall and turtle in higher wind.

    On 10/13/2016 at 11:45 PM, Happyspoon said:

    It is taking lots of tumbles while I"m learning these half axles

    I'm not sure we are discussing the same thing - by the "fall over" I meant the 3/4 downwards turn of the start of the side slide which the Hydra does almost by itself (though I'd like to verify that during better conditions). (This is a behavior that is shared by all my kites designed during the nineties (with the possible exception of City Session). On the other hand the Infinity, Maestro 3 and 4D instead want to make a very wide turn when turned downwards at the edge of the wind window. Yes they can make sharp turns elsewhere and I should figure out if I can make (force) them to do the turn at the edge as well.)

    On 10/13/2016 at 11:45 PM, Happyspoon said:

    I love this blog format (though I personally think you could make a new post for each log dump)!

    That thought (about separating the log dumps) has struck my mind recently. Originally I intended to make very short flight log entries - just a couple of lines, possibly not even full sentences everywhere. Well it didn't go that way. You need to test before you find "a working concept"/"your form"/"something that works well". Initially I chose between having a separate blog for the flight logs or doing it as now have implemented it (by including it all in a blog entry + comments). 

    Perhaps this suggested third way of having a blog entry per log dump makes it easier to find the new log dumps and also makes the size of the blog entry manageable (though you miss out some organisation when the log dumps are not any longer bundled in to a blog entry). I think that I'll go that way (with a blog entry per dump) after "Autumn/Winter 2016" blog entry period is finished. To on the other hand change the existing (large) blog entry blog entry would be difficult. Splitting up the current blog entry into new blog entries corresponding the different log dumps and then include the comments without affecting the time stamps is not something an ordinary KL member can do.    

    On 10/13/2016 at 11:45 PM, Happyspoon said:

    and have used that quote many times when talking about weeds! First time I've heard it from someone else!

    This was something that I came up with during the work with the hedge. A case of hands working and mind wandering. And I thought that I was original...

    • Like 2
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