Chikokishi

Fade help

24 posts in this topic

Hey, it's me again.

So iv been out flying and having a lot of fun with my SF. I am having issues with the flare-->fade transition. Ill flare it, but everytime i try to flip her over to a fade, instead my kite just darts up into the sky. It never just rolls overs like it is supposed to. Is my timing off? Pulling too long? all the fade videos i see seem to be doing exactly what i do.

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Hey, it's me again.

So iv been out flying and having a lot of fun with my SF. I am having issues with the flare-->fade transition. Ill flare it, but everytime i try to flip her over to a fade, instead my kite just darts up into the sky. It never just rolls overs like it is supposed to. Is my timing off? Pulling too long? all the fade videos i see seem to be doing exactly what i do.

It darts UP ? I would think a failed flare-fade would sent the kite flying DOWN. If it does pop from the flare back to flying down, you need more slack. Most videos show the pilot and kite separately, you need to find a video that shows both at the same time, slow it down, and watch the timing of the inputs, and notice the slack.

Try this video at ~2:00...

Martin's inputs are small and efficient, but maybe you can see how he gets his flare-fade. You should also check out RandyG's tutorials, they'll start you off in the right direction...

RandyG's Tutorials...

We'll have to make do with these until John comes out with his own 2 line tutorials...

Good luck !

~Rob.

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Yeah, when i try to go from flare to fade my kite almost does a pop up like when it is on the ground facing away from you and you jerk the lines.

I like mamas videos, they are great.

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Yeah, when i try to go from flare to fade my kite almost does a pop up like when it is on the ground facing away from you and you jerk the lines.

I like mamas videos, they are great.

To get the feel try learning the fade launch first. To me that is easier than learning the fade in the air. Do a pancake landing. Relax. Put your hands by your hips. Pull back to flip the kite into a fade and then give slack line to let the kite settle into the face. Most kites react better to a more even pull as opposed to a jerk pull. By starting from a pancake on the ground you take the pressure off your self to time the fade. Once you can do that reliably then go to doing it in the air. It is a minor adjustment to doing in the air. Don't forget to give slack to let the kite settle with the tail deep.

John

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My fade input is often more like a "drum hit" downward with both hands, as opposed to a straight pull back. ;)

Harder or softer, depending on the kite, but this seems to keep my control closer to the axis of the rotation, lessening the likelihood of the kite hopping straight up or toward me.

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You are popping way to hard. This is causing the kite to launch backwards towards you and then float upwards. You don't want to yank the kite backwards but instead, sweep the kite back a little so that the wind fills the bottom of the sail and causes it to flip over.

So do this:

Glide the kite down into the flare and then quickly (but as smooth as possible) sweep (not pop) your hands backwards to get the kite to flip over into the fade. Once the kite starts to flip, throw slack so that the kite doesn't nose dive into the ground but instead, flips forward. Be ready to gently pull the hands back towards your chest so that you can catch the nose before it darts upwards to far. The entire motion should be smooth and controlled, fade, pull/sweep backwards, throw slack and then catch. No sudden yanks or pops. The kite should FLOW gracefully through the maneuvers. If you watch the video's of the Jacobs Ladder, you will see a bit of a pop to get the rotations but to pull the kite into the fade position the movement is more subtle and the arm movements are much larger sweeping motions. The same movement needs to be done to get a controlled fade launch. Smoothly sweep the kite backwards so that it will flip. If you yank/pop the kite, it will just launch straight up backwards and you will get nearly zero rotation (this maneuver usually ends with the nose of the kite pounding straight into the ground).

Some kites like to be "Yanked-n-spanked" into different tricks and some tricks require to be "yanked-n-spanked" to get the trick to work. The fade is NOT one of them. Very few kites like to be pounded into a fade. Most require a forceful but graceful sweep type control to get into the fade.

The Yo-Fade is different. To do this trick I find that you barely start the flare and then immediately pop (pound) the kite hard and then throw a ton of slack to get the kite to roll up. This is not a fade though but more of a violent reversed roll up.

If you like to pop the kite into the fade then you will need to pop much quicker - before the kite flattens out into the flare (pancake). Start your flare and before the nose of the kite starts to level off, pop and then toss a lot of slack. This type of fade requires your timing to be much more precise and much quicker - no time to think about what the kite is doing. For slower fades the movement needs to be much more smoother and less violent.

For reference:

Randy G's Sport Kite Blog - Fade Tutorial

Hope that helps.

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Hah, thanks Kent! I happen to be the guy that just got a Silverfox a few weeks ago, Raylynn. Its good to see you on here too!

Ok, when the wind comes back ill try it again. Its been dead calm for three days. And snowing.

Thanks everyone!

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Raylynn,

Glad to help and glad you are getting along with your Silverfox. The Silverfox is an excellent kite that will take you far.

Just remember that the fade is a finesse type of trick, coax and ease that baby into the fade instead of pounding it into submission. Backspins, Lazy's, insane's and most other rotation type maneuvers require the same type of hand, more of a drag of the lines instead of a yank.

One way I teach to do the fade is to do a fade launch (like the others above have mentioned) ... but have the pilot start out by pulling way to light at first (NO POPS), and then slowly increase the pull (not yank) until the kite starts to float up off the ground. This usually ends up with a nose plant but when done in the lighter winds and with a very soft pull it doesn't do any damage to the kite. Just keep increasing the pull until you get the kite to float up and then throw the hands forward for slack and you got it. Once you get that down, remember how much pull you had to give the kite and then do the exact same when the kite is up in the air and your set. It really is a super easy trick to do once you get the feel for it.

Let us all know how it goes for you.

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Martin's inputs are small and efficient, but maybe you can see how he gets his flare-fade. You should also check out RandyG's tutorials, they'll start you off in the right direction...

RandyG's Tutorials...

We'll have to make do with these until John comes out with his own 2 line tutorials...

Good luck !

~Rob.

Anything happening with those tutorials I wonder. I think he has gone to the otherside, Rev side that is.

I know there are other tutorials but John has a way of doing them that makes them easier to follow, also he has a commentory.

It might happen!

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Thanks for the interest guys, I'm keen to do more (both dual and quad, solo and team, as well as oddities like dogstake and water flying with either).

I have it all in my head, 23 years of unabashed sport kite flying... Truly, the only remaining impediment to doing more tutorials is the fact that we live inland (very inconsistent wind not good for filming) and rely on our very good public transit system and rental cars to get around... What I need is the ability to jump in my own car and just go when the getting is good - I have people to help with filming and I already have a HUGE list of tutorials drafted with notes - if all goes well, we'll get into a new set of wheels later this year. :)

Also, with iQuad going on hiatus for at least a year after September, I'll be applying a great deal more energy toward more clinics and tutorials which is really where my main interest lies right now.

So stay tuned, keep sending the love, just a matter of getting a few pieces into place. ;)

Really, thanks for the interest - it motivates me!

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Yes, I will agree.... there are no better tutorials than yours, John. I've been waiting for some more dual line stuff, but have been learning to fly a Rev in the meantime. I had a few hours on the lines yesterday, practicing what you talked about & what I've seen in the videos.

Here's a suggestion... compile the tutorials onto a DVD,,, it would be a great promotional item for Kitelife. Way better than t-shirts ! :ani_victory:

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Or as a fundraiser!

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Glad to know there might be something in the pipeline.

And Must86, I'm almost in your position. I've just come back to kites after a long time away, bought a new dual line and stupidly a Rev at the same time, now of course find it difficult to fly either, things have changed. The Rev I will get my head around, but the tricks with the dual line kites have got me stumped. I have the Prism DVD but watching a DVD at home is ok, then when you go set up the kite and think, ok I know how to do this, you've forgotten it all.

I know practice, practice, practice.

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Martin's inputs are small and efficient, but maybe you can see how he gets his flare-fade. You should also check out RandyG's tutorials, they'll start you off in the right direction...

RandyG's Tutorials...

We'll have to make do with these until John comes out with his own 2 line tutorials...

Good luck !

~Rob.

Anything happening with those tutorials I wonder. I think he has gone to the otherside, Rev side that is.

I know there are other tutorials but John has a way of doing them that makes them easier to follow, also he has a commentory.

It might happen!

If you were looking for Randy G's tutorials.... they've been relocated to...

http://v2.1.kiteclique.com/tutorials/randygs/

Martin's tutorials & studies can now be found at...

https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B9JcxZDCNUNSRW9jUG9ac0loTDg/edit?pli=1&docId=0B9JcxZDCNUNSOGZkOTg2ODUtYTE5MS00NWI5LWFlMWYtNjEzZDYxOWY4Njgy

Download & save them before they disappear for good ! :bye2:

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Glad to know there might be something in the pipeline.

And Must86, I'm almost in your position. I've just come back to kites after a long time away, bought a new dual line and stupidly a Rev at the same time, now of course find it difficult to fly either, things have changed. The Rev I will get my head around, but the tricks with the dual line kites have got me stumped. I have the Prism DVD but watching a DVD at home is ok, then when you go set up the kite and think, ok I know how to do this, you've forgotten it all.

I know practice, practice, practice.

Wait, Pond... I just noticed you're from Tasmania. There's a guy down there named Steve P. who's an accomplished flier. Maybe you'll run into him on the beach ! He's in Hobart, I think. Tell him Rob says 'hey !' if you run into him !

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Rob, Funny you mention Steve, I was going to look him up in the next week or two, I have just come across his name and I know where he plays, I was hoping he could give me some pointers.

I live in Lewisham, about 25ks from Hobart but I will see him and mention you. Have you met him in person or just through forums.

John

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I've never met Steve in person, but we've communicated & traded kites for years. He's a great guy, a little busy with work & family, but if you can catch some time with him out on the beach, I'm sure you could learn more in an afternoon than you could after years of trial & error. I've seen some videos of him flying, he's quite good !

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He has a great stock of kites and they change a lot by the look of things, I will meet up with him soon and yes I probably would learn more from him, tutorials are ok but I forget what to do as soon as I shut the computer down.

Steve has a web site if you wanted it or didn't know.

https://sites.google.com/site/stevehobart/

John

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Hey John, I know what you mean, as soon as I get out on the field, most of my computer study flies right out of my brain !

Steve's kite inventory has changed a bit since that site was last updated. The Prophecy that you see on there used to be mine. It cost $110 to ship it to him ! :ani_rtfm:

I've got a couple of his, he's got a couple of mine. I think he's into flying R-Sky kites right now.

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Any hints for visualizing the catch phase better? I'm getting my kite to more or less consistently lay on it's back but I either never got the slack out of the lines in time before it falls out of the fade or I catch it too violently and it snaps out of the fade. I probably did 75-100 attempts today and stuck was successful about 5 times. I know more time on the lines patience and smooth sensitive inputs will get me there but was hoping for some mental tricks to help me along.

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In wind above 5mph, you need to be walking forward with the wind while catching & keeping your kite in a fade. More slack is almost always the answer ! :kid_frustrated:

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Rob - Good point - one trick I saw Ron Graziano do at a Trick Party was as he caught the Fade he would take baby steps FORWARD - think about - how could this ever HURT you? It can't - until you get good enough to watch the nose tip and then walk forward when it starts to dip - takes a awhile ... but DO the baby steps ROUTINE.

APJ

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I faced the same issue....remove the tail weight and try again.

After you obtain the needed muscle memory (i.e. doing succefully about 1,000 flick flacks) install the weight again and you'll hopefully be able to limit your hand push and obtain a stable flare šŸ–’

Sent from my SM-G935F using KiteLife mobile app

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I like to enter the fade from a "Half Axel" when the nose is away (a fractured axel) pull with both arms into the fade.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

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