DUAL HEADS

[Guru4tru]

Hi,

I just noticed that the "Kymera" post was located in the "Kite Archive" topic. There is a sub-title about "dual liners" there, but that's for archive stuff, I thought, and there is a "Sport Kites" topic down below somewhere, but I just realized that there isn't a "DUAL HEADS" topic....I don't know how I ever missed that. :confused!:

If there is a "QUAD HEADS" topic...I think it only fair to have a "DUAL HEADS" topic too!

Keep It Up!

Duane

[RobB]

Hi,

I just noticed that the "Kymera" post was located in the "Kite Archive" topic. There is a sub-title about "dual liners" there, but that's for archive stuff, I thought, and there is a "Sport Kites" topic down below somewhere, but I just realized that there isn't a "DUAL HEADS" topic....I don't know how I ever missed that. :confused!:

If there is a "QUAD HEADS" topic...I think it only fair to have a "DUAL HEADS" topic too!

Keep It Up!

Duane

Yeah, Dual Heads ! I'm all about that ! I've been called a Prism Head before (wait until yous see my new kites...) but I'm not going to be a Quad Head anytime soon. The Quad's been a cool diversion when the winds are too high to fly duals, but once it's under 10mph, the dual lines will be the only kites out on my field !

One thing I don't get... how do you quad line guys (& gals) deal with the extra time to set up/break down ? I can't stand it... especially the 2 knots of death that I've experienced so far. Never have that problem with only 2 lines...

[John Barresi]

No problems with the quads on this end... 3 minutes to set up, 3 minutes to tear down, every time without fail.

Did you watch the tutorials? (Line Management, Assembly and Disassembly)

It's really about a few essential steps and eliminating the variables, nothing difficult, becomes second nature very quickly once you understand it.

==

FYI, "quad heads" was set up way back when Rev fliers were farther and fewer between, with very little online information to be had.

Now, it's such an active community that it has it's own forum (Rev) with literally dozens of topic areas.

==

With the dual lines, "dual heads" have always had a variety of topic areas in which to post and converse.

If there is more demand for it, surely I'll be happy to make a "dual heads" area - but to add it now would be a bit redundant, best I can tell.

[RobB]

Yup, watched all the tutorial videos, it's just a matter of getting more practice. The 120' lines don't help, I need to get a shorter set. I should check out what I have for my Spirit kite, maybe those will work...

[Reef Runner]

Yup, watched all the tutorial videos, it's just a matter of getting more practice. The 120' lines don't help, I need to get a shorter set. I should check out what I have for my Spirit kite, maybe those will work...

Rob,

Are you pairing the lines, like John shows in the video. Once paired, you should be able to wind up, just like a set of your dual lines......... I remember back, on one of my very first rev adventures, I likewise experienced one of those "knot's of death" - severely tangled. I bet it took my wife and I, a good 45 minutes to get everything untangled and laid out straight. Very frustrating, to say the least. I was almost to the point of (dare I mention the word), "cutting", but was finally able to avoid that !!

However, that was also about the time, that the tutorials on "Line Management" and "Assembly/Disassembly" came out, so I watched them that very evening. Then I watched them again, and in particular, the one on "Line Management". I watched that several times. I can just about dub the audio in that one now !! But the point is, I finally got the concept in my head, and now, as John said, it's 3 minutes up - 3 minutes down. Ok, ok, maybe not quite 3 minutes (I'm not a professional). So maybe it's 3 minutes & 22 seconds. Well, it's a lot faster than it used to be, anyway. Not much more than handling a set of dual lines, just a couple more lark's head knots to deal with, and the whole process has now become, more or less, second nature, just as handling dual lines is to you now.

As John showed in the video, the kite stake is very important, so you can put a little tension on the lines, when you wind up. Also, make sure you stake the top of the handles, with the kite inverted, and then always wind the lines from the kite, back to the staked handles (opposite on the unwind). I just always try to remember, when I go to the kite, in prep to wind up, always lark's head the upper line's loop, to the lower line's loop, and slide the lark's head, right down to the knot, on the lower loop. Then when you get to the other end, things should just about equalize out, since you should be staked, at the tops of the handles. I hope that makes sense.........

NOTE:............since you only have one rev, and one set of quad lines and handles, right now, you may be leaving the lines attached to the handles, as John does in the video. No problem with this, for sure, other than packing. Personally, I don't have a dedicated set of handles, for every set of lines, so I remove my handles, once I am through flying, unless I plan on being right back out the next day. Removing the handles, can be a point of introducing some unwanted twist, or entwining, that you might want to pay close attention to. It's very easy to let the ends get away, and if you put them back wrong - big trouble will arise, next time out.

To avoid this, sometimes I will remove my handles prior to even beginning to wind up. First I stake the handles on the ground, with the lines all pulled out straight, with no tangles or twist. I have the kite inverted to avoid and unplanned take off. Then I remove one handle at a time, from the stake, disconnect the lines from the handle, and I lark's head the bottom line to the top. Then I place the kite stake through that top line's sleeved loop, and proceed to disconnect the other handle, in the same manner, and then stake it, along with the first pair. Once this is done, I pick up the two pairs of lines, using the top line loops to give them a little tug, just enough to make sure that they are straight. Then I re-stake them, through the top loops. Then I go to the kite end and disconnect those lines from the kite, being sure to connect the appropriate pairs, just the opposite, as to what I just did, down at the handle end. Again, on the kite end, you want to lark's head the top line to the bottom, and as just mentioned, this is opposite to what you just did, at the handle end. Now, your lines (upper & lower) should be equally offset, and should equalize perfectly, assuming that upper and lower lines are the same length, and your sleeved loops and knots, are all the same, on top and bottom lines, as well as left and right. Now winding up should be a breeze, just like a dualie............... again, hope that makes sense........

[kiteking]

That's a great walk thru Rob,

I would only add one thing, especially with new lines.

I switch my top and bottom lines from time to time, and also switch the handle end with the kite end. This will assist even stretch and even wear

[Reef Runner]

That's a great walk Thur Rob,

I would only add one thing, especially with new lines.

I switch my top and bottom lines from time to time, and also switch the handle end with the kite end. This will assist even stretch and even wear

Thanks Mike, I knew I was forgetting something. Yep, I try to do that at least a couple of times during the year (summer actually, since that's when I fly, mostly). That sometimes messes me up, right at first, as I have usually gotten used to doing whatever, with a particular color............nick

[John Barresi]

Another major item, is DON'T MUCK WITH WHAT YOU THINK ARE WRAPS until the kite is totally hooked up and "ready to fly"... Do not sit at the kite end with those loops trying to sort out what looks like a mess.

Hook it all up, apply even tension at the handles, 95% of it will pop out unless you've let your loops go through each other during the wind up/out process.

[John Barresi]

BTW, I *love* how the "DUAL HEADS" topic went to quad discussion in 2 posts flat.

[Reef Runner]

BTW, I *love* how the "DUAL HEADS" topic went to quad discussion in 2 posts flat.

Funny, how that happened, ain't it !!!

[Guru4tru]

BTW, I *love* how the "DUAL HEADS" topic went to quad discussion in 2 posts flat.

Funny, how that happened, ain't it !!!

The subject change was because "I" started the post! If "I" had started it with "Quad Heads" we would be talking about "Dual Heads" now!! Happens to me all the time! heehee!

=====

I don't know why, maybe just because it scared me, but I really resisted John's method of winding the quad lines. I was using 2 winders and doing each side separaterly, which was really time consuming and twice the walk.

I think I was afraid of having a great tangle...remember I'm a bit "spastic" and "deranged"! But, after a few times..."it's the only way to go"...I haven't had a problem after the first couple times. But, I do have to pay a little attention to what I'm doing at each end!

Keep It Up!

Duane

[John Barresi]

Aye, the devil is in the details... There's only a few details, but they're all important.

None difficult, but they are specific.

[--Pete]

BTW, I *love* how the "DUAL HEADS" topic went to quad discussion in 2 posts flat.

Sheer proof that Quad_Heads is needed and Dual_Heads is not. (Ducking and Covering)

I don't know why, maybe just because it scared me, but I really resisted John's method of winding the quad lines. I was using 2 winders and doing each side separaterly, which was really time consuming and twice the walk.

I think I was afraid of having a great tangle...remember I'm a bit "spastic" and "deranged"! But, after a few times..."it's the only way to go"...I haven't had a problem after the first couple times. But, I do have to pay a little attention to what I'm doing at each end!

I think I deserve the crown for line-tangle-paranoia. Check this out: http://kitelife.com/...e-reel-machine/

[Reef Runner]

BTW, I *love* how the "DUAL HEADS" topic went to quad discussion in 2 posts flat.

Sheer proof that Quad_Heads is needed and Dual_Heads is not. (Ducking and Covering)

I don't know why, maybe just because it scared me, but I really resisted John's method of winding the quad lines. I was using 2 winders and doing each side separaterly, which was really time consuming and twice the walk.

I think I was afraid of having a great tangle...remember I'm a bit "spastic" and "deranged"! But, after a few times..."it's the only way to go"...I haven't had a problem after the first couple times. But, I do have to pay a little attention to what I'm doing at each end!

I think I deserve the crown for line-tangle-paranoia. Check this out: http://kitelife.com/...e-reel-machine/

Duane will make one of those this weekend, if it rains..........

[Guru4tru]

No Chance:

Temp. in the low 80s...sunny...south wind at 9 to 15...Don't worry I have sun tan lotion and a beach umbrella!! heehee!!

Keep It Up!

Duane

[Reef Runner]

No Chance:

Temp. in the low 80s...sunny...south wind at 9 to 15...Don't worry I have sun tan lotion and a beach umbrella!! heehee!!

Keep It Up!

Duane

Keep it up ! 99F & 100%R/H is on the way ! Then we'll see who is flying !

[Wayne Dowler]

And you're suffering??!!?? It's 35* with snow showers and projected to get colder!!!:kid_cussing:Anyone back there working on a transporter???? Welcome from the "Great" Northwest!!!

[RobB]

Yup, watched all the tutorial videos, it's just a matter of getting more practice. The 120' lines don't help, I need to get a shorter set. I should check out what I have for my Spirit kite, maybe those will work...

Rob,

Are you pairing the lines, like John shows in the video. Once paired, you should be able to wind up, just like a set of your dual lines......... I remember back, on one of my very first rev adventures, I likewise experienced one of those "knot's of death" - severely tangled. I bet it took my wife and I, a good 45 minutes to get everything untangled and laid out straight. Very frustrating, to say the least. I was almost to the point of (dare I mention the word), "cutting", but was finally able to avoid that !!

However, that was also about the time, that the tutorials on "Line Management" and "Assembly/Disassembly" came out, so I watched them that very evening. Then I watched them again, and in particular, the one on "Line Management". I watched that several times. I can just about dub the audio in that one now !! But the point is, I finally got the concept in my head, and now, as John said, it's 3 minutes up - 3 minutes down. Ok, ok, maybe not quite 3 minutes (I'm not a professional). So maybe it's 3 minutes & 22 seconds. Well, it's a lot faster than it used to be, anyway. Not much more than handling a set of dual lines, just a couple more lark's head knots to deal with, and the whole process has now become, more or less, second nature, just as handling dual lines is to you now.

As John showed in the video, the kite stake is very important, so you can put a little tension on the lines, when you wind up. Also, make sure you stake the top of the handles, with the kite inverted, and then always wind the lines from the kite, back to the staked handles (opposite on the unwind). I just always try to remember, when I go to the kite, in prep to wind up, always lark's head the upper line's loop, to the lower line's loop, and slide the lark's head, right down to the knot, on the lower loop. Then when you get to the other end, things should just about equalize out, since you should be staked, at the tops of the handles. I hope that makes sense.........

NOTE:............since you only have one rev, and one set of quad lines and handles, right now, you may be leaving the lines attached to the handles, as John does in the video. No problem with this, for sure, other than packing. Personally, I don't have a dedicated set of handles, for every set of lines, so I remove my handles, once I am through flying, unless I plan on being right back out the next day. Removing the handles, can be a point of introducing some unwanted twist, or entwining, that you might want to pay close attention to. It's very easy to let the ends get away, and if you put them back wrong - big trouble will arise, next time out.

To avoid this, sometimes I will remove my handles prior to even beginning to wind up. First I stake the handles on the ground, with the lines all pulled out straight, with no tangles or twist. I have the kite inverted to avoid and unplanned take off. Then I remove one handle at a time, from the stake, disconnect the lines from the handle, and I lark's head the bottom line to the top. Then I place the kite stake through that top line's sleeved loop, and proceed to disconnect the other handle, in the same manner, and then stake it, along with the first pair. Once this is done, I pick up the two pairs of lines, using the top line loops to give them a little tug, just enough to make sure that they are straight. Then I re-stake them, through the top loops. Then I go to the kite end and disconnect those lines from the kite, being sure to connect the appropriate pairs, just the opposite, as to what I just did, down at the handle end. Again, on the kite end, you want to lark's head the top line to the bottom, and as just mentioned, this is opposite to what you just did, at the handle end. Now, your lines (upper & lower) should be equally offset, and should equalize perfectly, assuming that upper and lower lines are the same length, and your sleeved loops and knots, are all the same, on top and bottom lines, as well as left and right. Now winding up should be a breeze, just like a dualie............... again, hope that makes sense........

No, this all makes total sense. The first super-knot that I had... well, let's just say the lineset was lucky I forgot my knife in the car... I was so frustrated to have lost an hour of flying.

I follow the tutorial videos as best as I can from memory, I watched that line management video before I even owned a Rev. I kept the lines for my Spirit Quad on two separate winders in the past. Same with my quad line foils...

The biggest departure of technique for me is to not wind the lines figure 8 style. I am having issues with smooth payout when setting up, it becomes a 2 handed affair. I'm not paying attention to wraps when I set up, because I know that I wrapped the set up straight. Once I fly around a little, I land, and see what I have... just like in the video.

I think my main problem is the 120' lines. I'm used 65'-75' lines mostly when flying duals, only on special occasion do I get out the 100' lines. That's perfect wind, low tide, and when I'm flying Blue Moon kites. Everything else I have likes shorter lines. I think I need to get some 75'-85' lines to start to click with the Rev.

So, out of 5 hours of fly-time this week, I spent only 1/5 of that on the Rev, even though the wind was good for it 4 out of the 5 hours. I guess I'm still a dual-head.

[RobB]

That's a great walk thru Rob,

I would only add one thing, especially with new lines.

I switch my top and bottom lines from time to time, and also switch the handle end with the kite end. This will assist even stretch and even wear

Good stuff, Mike. I hadn't thought about doing that yet, as I've been leaving the handles attached. Come to think of it, the tops do seem to be a little longer than the brake lines. Next time out, I'll flop them...

[Hedgewarden]

And you're suffering??!!?? It's 35* with snow showers and projected to get colder!!!:kid_cussing:Anyone back there working on a transporter???? Welcome from the "Great" Northwest!!!

6 inches of snow here, on the hill behind Chehalis - mostly melted into slush, and due to freeze tonight at 18 deg F. One more post from Florida-Duane and I may go cabin feverishly ballistic.

Regarding setup and tear down, I find the Rev kites are much faster than large duals - especially if you need to get them into a package less than 5 feet long. It makes up for the slightly longer and more care-required quad line vs. dual line wind-out and wind-up. Some of the other brands of quad kites, now, are a different matter.

[RobB]

No Chance:

Temp. in the low 80s...sunny...south wind at 9 to 15...Don't worry I have sun tan lotion and a beach umbrella!! heehee!!

Keep It Up!

Duane

Keep it up ! 99F & 100%R/H is on the way ! Then we'll see who is flying !

I'll be flying, but hating it, and wishing for this time of year ! Once it goes over 60 degrees, it's too hot for me !

That's the kind of weather that I'm packing up to go home at 9-10am...

[Guru4tru]

Hey Howard,

All is not wonderful down here...I have to wear a long sleeved white shirt and hat to protect myself from the sun!

Keep It Up!

Duane

[Wayne Dowler]

And you're suffering??!!?? It's 35* with snow showers and projected to get colder!!!:kid_cussing:Anyone back there working on a transporter???? Welcome from the "Great" Northwest!!!

6 inches of snow here, on the hill behind Chehalis - mostly melted into slush, and due to freeze tonight at 18 deg F. One more post from Florida-Duane and I may go cabin feverishly ballistic.

Regarding setup and tear down, I find the Rev kites are much faster than large duals - especially if you need to get them into a package less than 5 feet long. It makes up for the slightly longer and more care-required quad line vs. dual line wind-out and wind-up. Some of the other brands of quad kites, now, are a different matter.

That's it, Hedge and I are going come down there and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,!!!!!

[Guru4tru]

And you're suffering??!!?? It's 35* with snow showers and projected to get colder!!!:kid_cussing:Anyone back there working on a transporter???? Welcome from the "Great" Northwest!!!

6 inches of snow here, on the hill behind Chehalis - mostly melted into slush, and due to freeze tonight at 18 deg F. One more post from Florida-Duane and I may go cabin feverishly ballistic.

Regarding setup and tear down, I find the Rev kites are much faster than large duals - especially if you need to get them into a package less than 5 feet long. It makes up for the slightly longer and more care-required quad line vs. dual line wind-out and wind-up. Some of the other brands of quad kites, now, are a different matter.

That's it, Hedge and I are going come down there and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,!!!!!

FINALLY...IT WORKED!!

I'm going to have people to fly with!! heehee!

(I thought the nudist camp thing would have gotten Jynx here for sure, but nooooo....)

Keep It Up!

Duane

[Wayne Dowler]

So, you've invented a safe transporter??? Probably the only way to get us there!!!