Quad Foil Follow-up

[CLTKiter]

Just a follow-up question related to the other discussion on quad foils.

I have a number of Rev's and a Skydancer, and they all "fly like quads". By that I mean that they turn by wrist motion, not arm pulling motion. Arm pulling motion is for slides. However, I also have a NASA Power Wing and a TC Ultra (both dual/quad convertible), and these fly like a hybrid (kinda like a dual-line with brakes). They will fly with only wrist motion, but not very well. They need a combination of wrist and arm motion to turn well. This applies to both turns and spins.

Now my question... How about quad foils? Do they fly "like quads" or like the "hybrids"? For my 150 lb size, I'm thinking a fun-type foil, not a full power kite (maybe 1-3 meters).

Thanks in advance,

Doug

[Progcraft]

Foils don't really fly like a rev does. The brakes do add turning ability, but the kite does not present a face to the wind like a rev. Rev's pivot around the center line of the kite giving a propellor shape which spins the kite.

For foils generally, turning is accomplished two line style. NPW's require more brake action then a good foil. and just in general need much more attention. Foils fly on the power lines.

However, when I get going on a board, I do use brakes only for makeing the lazy-8's that are required for good boarding. This cause soft, gentle, wide turns under full power. Turning two line stlye makes the kite react much faster of course, and still maintain full power, but it's just more work too.

HTH

P.

[hvkmike]

A good foil will will fly very much like a rev..as it is a quad also.

True..foils fly off the power lines mainly.....but by adding brake through the turn,the kite will pivot....hand motions are same as on a rev...only slightly exagerated.Slow turns....steer like a two line using the power lines.To do a crisp 90 deg turn...as well as steering like a two line....also add hard brake.Having your foil set up properly is critical also.Reverse,slides...whatever....foils will do them.

I think you'll find that most foil flyers who can fly a foil like a rev....are ex rev flyers.

The Rev is not only a great kite on its own....but possibly responsible for may quad line flyers to picking up a quad foil.Many get the power bug & never look back.

As for the NPW...thats a totally different animal.I've flown a few but didn't really like them.

Twin skin foils are superior.

If you need to syne the kite you are usually under powered.This "s" or "8" motion simply keeps the kite in the power window longer....giving more power.Ideally you want to find the sweet spot in the window & "lock the kite in"...giving you maximum power.

In my experience/opinion.

Later

Good Winds

Mike

[windofchange]

I have done a dive stop with my 6.8 Razor.....bout sprained my wrists doing it but it can be done. After the dive stop the kite did collapse and drop on the ground in a pile of ripstop and spectra....have to work on that reverse flight (maybe I will just stick to my Rev's for that). I must say that Rev stunts on a foil are not nearly as fun or as impressive.

IN MY OPINION.....I think that a person who learns to master a Rev will become a better foil pilot because of the skills that are learned on the Rev. Most all quad line foils can be flown like a Rev...er, make that a sloppy Rev. The precision is definatly not there. The advantage is that once you learn that the brake lines can be used to increase the turning speed of the kite...or even used to slow the kite down and back the kite deeper into the window, you can get more performance out of your foil than a pilot who has never learned these subtle maneuvers.

Most of the better buggy pilots in our area own or have flown Rev's. Maybe it is coincidence, maybe not. But it is hard to not argue that the Rev pilots do have better control of their foils during turns and landings.

Just my two cents....Oh, and I have yet to find a foil that can side slide...maybe a vertical side slide timed exactly when the wind drops out of the kite....have to think on that - can you say bridle tangle?

Larger foils will require a lot more input to get the same response as the smaller ones. You need to pull on the handle as well as use your wrist to get the best performance, wrist or pulling motion alone will not be nearly as responsive. So as far as the original question goes I would have to put my vote on the "Hybird" type of control - especially when talking about the larger sized foils. Smaller foils can turn pretty quick on wrist movements alone but again will be emphasized when used in combination with pulling.

If you are looking for a quad type kite that flies like a Rev but has a good amount of power like a foil, check out the Blast or Power Blast. Rev control with enough power to do some serious beach dragging. Packs down just like a Rev....oh yea, it is a Rev.

[Progcraft]

Very nicely put. Thanks

P.

[CLTKiter]

Thanks guys. I have a Blast, and really enjoy its versatility. I've flown it in about 20 mph winds, and it dragged me across the sand. However, I really enjoy it in about 5-6 mph winds because of its precision. Then when the wind drops (as it does here quite often), it floats really well. The power aspects don't do an awful lot for me -- I'm getting too old for that.

I was looking into info about the foil due mainly to a different "feel" of flying but still staying with a quad.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Doug

[Penny Lingenfelter]

Just my two cents....Oh, and I have yet to find a foil that can side slide...maybe a vertical side slide timed exactly when the wind drops out of the kite....have to think on that - can you say bridle tangle?

If you are looking for a quad type kite that flies like a Rev but has a good amount of power like a foil, check out the Blast or Power Blast.  Rev control with enough power to do some serious beach dragging.  Packs down just like a Rev....oh yea, it is a Rev.   

Woo hoo, great memories of buggying with my Super Blast while I slid it sideways across the sky.

I only have a sky tiger power kite, and pivots get a little messy, but it does do everything a rev. does.. only not as well.... but then.. what does?

BB

Penny

[hvkmike]

I do side slides with my Libre Bora's & Jojo RM's.

A long link line helps.

I find it an almost essential maneuver when parking the kite.

With limited space we tend to group kites closely.So a quick side slide over 5 or 6 kites in normal.

True ..at the edge foils will fold or lose pressure.

wing tip colapses are easy enough to deal with.....but bow ties suck!

WHen one wing tip passes through the center bridle lines causing a twist in the kite.

Looks just like a sloppy bow tie.

It's tricky but with some luck you won't have to walk to the kite to untangle.

As for the dive stop......sounds like your giving enough brake to make the actual stop.....but at the point where the kite is almost stopped.....ease up on the brakes a tad.You have to make the stop first.......requiring tons of brake.

Then you have to maintain a hover.......requires less brake.

Keep Flying!

Good Winds

Mike

[Penny Lingenfelter]

hehehe My slide was fast and for buggying, not parking. It not only felt great, it looked great.

BB

Penny

[windofchange]

Hey Penny,

We spent the entire week out here at the NABX buggying. Joe Hadzecki and I were flying the Power Blast 4-8's and having an awesome time with them. Not many on the field could even keep up. Had quite a few runs well over the 50mph mark. The Power Blasts are fantastic buggy kites, only real drawback is that you have to have some pretty good Rev experience to get the most out of them. We had 100+ kiters on the lake bed on Friday/Saturday doing everything from landboards, buggies, a few land sailers, and even some off road roller blades (doom wheels). The "Pimp your buggy" contest was also a fun event and brought out some really neat ideas. I especially liked the matching tandem buggy setup with the "In Helmet" walkie-talkie system - sweet! Peter Lynn was there showing his new Kite Kat (kite boat) as well as the new Venom twin skin power kites. Some of those guys were getting some pretty awesome air on them as well as some great speed in the buggies. The Kite Kat had a couple runs out on Lake Mojave earlier in the week and did fairly well. Got some pretty strange looks sitting on the dry lake bed with no water within 75 miles. Brian and Heather from Windzup were there with plenty of demo's on all of the Ozone gear as well as a ton of team riders from all the power kite brands.

Winds were excellent, weather was excellent, company was excellent....all in all a very wonderful time. I should be getting some pics back from the event soon. When I do I will try to post some of them for anyone who is interested.

You'll have to get up here one of these times to do some buggying on the lake beds. It is really a treat. Still get amazed every time I pull the Power Blasts out of the bag. What a rush of a week!