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General noob questions, first flight hypnotist


Gat0rbait
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Hey all I am going to write a dear diary real quick then get to my questions. I was first introduced to sportkites around 97', I was around 13 years old and I worked under the table for a guy on the beach that sold kites and also rented out chairs/umbrellas. It was always a blast and I have always wanted to get back into it. Fast forward 16 years and I have been trying to come up with activities to get my kids involved, and recently started doing research on kites as its fairly cheap compared to some of my other hobbies and we spend alot of time at the beach already.

I bought a prism hypnotist (wife bought it for fathers day I told her what to get) and took it out for the first time yesterday. First thing I could tell right away is how much it has changed, when I hooked up lines as a kite I didnt have a metal clip thingy. Also only had 1 standoff as opposed to 2, and lastly the bridle looks alot more adjustable then I remember.

It was like riding a bicycle I could do everything I could as a kid (perhaps not as precise) from landing on wind edge, crash recovery, and just overall control was like I had never left. Got the kids involved and right away my son says "can I buy one" which I am excited that he is showing interest but obviously didnt want to spend all day beating up my new kite trying to teach him haha.

Any advice or help on the following would be great.

What is a good general progression order on learning tricks? ie start learning what trick first (axel, turtle) and progress through to the next tricks (yo yo). I dont plan to be in competitions I just want to learn a handful of tricks and have fun when I am out there. But having said that I know lines do play a big role should I be looking into some lighter than stock lines?

Should I make any adjustments on the bridle I read in the manual I can change it slightly to be more "trick happy". What winds are best for tricks with this kite, i flew in 10-12 mph yesterday.

The kite does not have yo yo stoppers will this prevent me from doing flip type tricks?

What is a good beginner dual line kite for a kid around age 11? I was thinking possibly the beetle? something that can take a beating but also be fun.

For your time.

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First trick I learned was the axle and it's by and far the easiest to learn because the inputs are simple and you can be extremely ham fisted and still get good results. I'm far from an expert but I feel the snap stall while difficult to get right is more of a building block and worth working on early.

From my experience the wind will let you know what your bridle settings should be and what kind of tricks are available. I started a thread not too long ago asking about yo-yo stoppers and roll-ups and the general consensus was if there aren't yo-yo stoppers you can do the tricks but the sail probably isn't re-enforced and may suffer from line chaffing on the back side.

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I think the most essential "tricks" to learn is actually the "Side Slide" and "Stall" in the middle of the window... You may have already progressed through this part, but its essential for ANY advanced trick in my opinion. Once you can master a side slide across the window, you are ready to start doing other tricks. Of course, this is all just my opinion, so take it as such.

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I think the most essential "tricks" to learn is actually the "Side Slide" and "Stall" in the middle of the window... You may have already progressed through this part, but its essential for ANY advanced trick in my opinion. Once you can master a side slide across the window, you are ready to start doing other tricks. Of course, this is all just my opinion, so take it as such.

I do have slide, however can really use some work on stalling in the middle of the window, Thank you. Also liked your page on FB fellow floridian :)

What is the best wind range to practice new tricks in?

First trick I learned was the axle and it's by and far the easiest to learn because the inputs are simple and you can be extremely ham fisted and still get good results. I'm far from an expert but I feel the snap stall while difficult to get right is more of a building block and worth working on early.

From my experience the wind will let you know what your bridle settings should be and what kind of tricks are available. I started a thread not too long ago asking about yo-yo stoppers and roll-ups and the general consensus was if there aren't yo-yo stoppers you can do the tricks but the sail probably isn't re-enforced and may suffer from line chaffing on the back side.

Axel it is, along with working on stalls as mentioned above. I looked at yo yo stoppers on prism website and there only a couple dollars so I might go ahead and make the investment want to get a few spare parts as it is. So would you think my stock lines should be fine for this?

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What is the best wind range to practice new tricks in?

Axel it is, along with working on stalls as mentioned above. I looked at yo yo stoppers on prism website and there only a couple dollars so I might go ahead and make the investment want to get a few spare parts as it is. So would you think my stock lines should be fine for this?

Best wind range is usually at the bottom of the kites wind range where it is EASY to stall it. The easier the stalls the less work doing slack lined tricks. Some tricks like a little more or a little less, but in generally on the verge of not flying seems to work the best for me.

I'm not sure what lines you are on, so can't say for sure. Even as a novice I can tell a huge difference between budget line and the perfomance synthetics (dyneema/etc). The stretch is the biggest issue. You're stock line should be appropriate weight for your kite though. For very light wind applications you may find lighter line helpful but tackle that issue when you get there.

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Well, beyond stalls & side slides, the first tricks I learned were the turtle, lazy susan, and then the flick flac. It also happens that I learned them on a Prism Mirage, which was renamed the Hypnotist. One thing I did early on was to add a little weight to the tail... my beach is very rocky, and I slid a flat stone between the spine & the sail. It seemed to help. That was the first year with the kite. I spent a good part of the next year trying to learn to axel... I eventually got it, but what a struggle ! My biggest road-block was learning to give the kite slack. My gut reaction was to keep stepping back to keep the kite in the air, and that was the opposite of what needed to be done. When you initiate just about any trick, it helps to at least take a step forward, if not to keep walking forward. Like was mentioned above, you want the kite to be right on the edge of flying vs. falling when you're tricking.

When you get frustrated trying to learn whatever trick you're working on, take a break and go back to the basics. Try to make a bigger side slide. Do tip-stands or practice landings. Fly box turns. It helps to clear your mind, and those are all skills that you're always learning, and can always be done better. I took a whole year off of learning new tricks and concentrated on learning how to do what I knew, better. Now I'm trying to learn new tricks again. I learn so slow that I'm happy with one or two each year.

If you can find someone to fly with & learn from, you'll learn a lot faster, but if you're an isolated flyer (like me), take in every video you can. There are a lot of tutorials on uToob and different kite forums...

http://v2.1.kiteclique.com/tutorials/randygs/

http://v2.1.kiteclique.com/tutorials/mama74/

http://prismkites.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=Stickies

Those should give you plenty to digest !

The Hypnotist should be a fine kite for both you & your son to learn on. Maybe get him one just like yours so you can fly pairs...

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Best wind range is usually at the bottom of the kites wind range where it is EASY to stall it. The easier the stalls the less work doing slack lined tricks. Some tricks like a little more or a little less, but in generally on the verge of not flying seems to work the best for me.

I'm not sure what lines you are on, so can't say for sure. Even as a novice I can tell a huge difference between budget line and the perfomance synthetics (dyneema/etc). The stretch is the biggest issue. You're stock line should be appropriate weight for your kite though. For very light wind applications you may find lighter line helpful but tackle that issue when you get there.

There 150# 85 ft lines, I did not notice any stretching but then again being new and getting back into it I dont even think I paid attention to that i will be more attentive next time. Thanks.

Well, beyond stalls & side slides, the first tricks I learned were the turtle, lazy susan, and then the flick flac. It also happens that I learned them on a Prism Mirage, which was renamed the Hypnotist. One thing I did early on was to add a little weight to the tail... my beach is very rocky, and I slid a flat stone between the spine & the sail. It seemed to help. That was the first year with the kite. I spent a good part of the next year trying to learn to axel... I eventually got it, but what a struggle ! My biggest road-block was learning to give the kite slack. My gut reaction was to keep stepping back to keep the kite in the air, and that was the opposite of what needed to be done. When you initiate just about any trick, it helps to at least take a step forward, if not to keep walking forward. Like was mentioned above, you want the kite to be right on the edge of flying vs. falling when you're tricking.

When you get frustrated trying to learn whatever trick you're working on, take a break and go back to the basics. Try to make a bigger side slide. Do tip-stands or practice landings. Fly box turns. It helps to clear your mind, and those are all skills that you're always learning, and can always be done better. I took a whole year off of learning new tricks and concentrated on learning how to do what I knew, better. Now I'm trying to learn new tricks again. I learn so slow that I'm happy with one or two each year.

If you can find someone to fly with & learn from, you'll learn a lot faster, but if you're an isolated flyer (like me), take in every video you can. There are a lot of tutorials on uToob and different kite forums...

http://v2.1.kiteclique.com/tutorials/randygs/

http://v2.1.kiteclique.com/tutorials/mama74/

http://prismkites.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=Stickies

Those should give you plenty to digest !

The Hypnotist should be a fine kite for both you & your son to learn on. Maybe get him one just like yours so you can fly pairs...

Thanks for the videos give me something to do at work today :). There are no other flyers around which I just am baffled I live near so many nice beaches and only kites I see are kitesurfers, and there are a ton of those but never see any stunt or power kites.

And only reason I would like to look into another kite for my son is because the hypnotist was 140 and I figured he would be beating it up alot more than me so I wanted to get him something in the 80-100 range if possible and thought the beatle would be good since its only 65, but I know smaller the kite the quicker so not sure if that is a good choice.

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There 150# 85 ft lines, I did not notice any stretching but then again being new and getting back into it I dont even think I paid attention to that i will be more attentive next time. Thanks.

I'm not sure you would even know what the stretching feels like unless you had good lines and budget lines to fly. For me it's most noticeable when trying to make square turns but it shows up all over. It's like using a slinky to control the kite vs rods. One lets you pull without doing much for a while then over exagerates your input a second or two after you made the input. The other is instaneous and precise.

And only reason I would like to look into another kite for my son is because the hypnotist was 140 and I figured he would be beating it up alot more than me so I wanted to get him something in the 80-100 range if possible and thought the beatle would be good since its only 65, but I know smaller the kite the quicker so not sure if that is a good choice.

I own a beetle and have mixed feelings about it. It will take an absolutely massive amount of abuse and it's cheap. That said I spent too much time on it trying to learn to fly better when the kite was a major limiting factor. With that said I think small foils offer the ability to drive a kite around and develop basic skills in a package that can be cheap, user friendly and lacks rigid parts to break. They need a little more wind to really be fun though, so as Wayne mentioned it may create a disparity between your desired wind speed and that of your son's kite. I own an HQ syphony 1.3 which sold for $35 and flys (no tricks) around on budget lines far better than the beetle ever did on perfomance lines. There are a number of other kites from nearly all the manufacturers making foils around the same size that I'm guessing would work just as well.

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There 150# 85 ft lines, I did not notice any stretching but then again being new and getting back into it I dont even think I paid attention to that i will be more attentive next time. Thanks.

I'm not sure you would even know what the stretching feels like unless you had good lines and budget lines to fly. For me it's most noticeable when trying to make square turns but it shows up all over. It's like using a slinky to control the kite vs rods. One lets you pull without doing much for a while then over exagerates your input a second or two after you made the input. The other is instaneous and precise.

And only reason I would like to look into another kite for my son is because the hypnotist was 140 and I figured he would be beating it up alot more than me so I wanted to get him something in the 80-100 range if possible and thought the beatle would be good since its only 65, but I know smaller the kite the quicker so not sure if that is a good choice.

I own a beetle and have mixed feelings about it. It will take an absolutely massive amount of abuse and it's cheap. That said I spent too much time on it trying to learn to fly better when the kite was a major limiting factor. With that said I think small foils offer the ability to drive a kite around and develop basic skills in a package that can be cheap, user friendly and lacks rigid parts to break. They need a little more wind to really be fun though, so as Wayne mentioned it may create a disparity between your desired wind speed and that of your son's kite. I own an HQ syphony 1.3 which sold for $35 and flys (no tricks) around on budget lines far better than the beetle ever did on perfomance lines. There are a number of other kites from nearly all the manufacturers making foils around the same size that I'm guessing would work just as well.

I did not even consider any foils, that looks like a pretty cheap kite do you think it will keep an 11yr boy entertained? Ive been showing him delta tricks and hes really digging that but I think this foil may be best to get him the basics

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I did not even consider any foils, that looks like a pretty cheap kite do you think it will keep an 11yr boy entertained? Ive been showing him delta tricks and hes really digging that but I think this foil may be best to get him the basics

Kites seem to resonate with some people and not as much with others. My girlfriend can fly dual lines just fine, but after 10 minutes or so of flying she is usually done and ready to move on with her day. On the other hand I spend hours in a field flying kites. When I was 13 I made a delta-conye single line kite in algebra class with dowels and tyvek. I flew that kite whenever I could for years until one fateful day I the line broke in super heavy wind and the kite floated off into obvlivion. Well actually it was a farmers field. He was nice enough to let me look around for the rest of the evening but I never did find it. If you're son has the bug he's going to love anythign that gets in the air and the better it flys the more fun he will have. In my experience the foils fly great. If there is enough wind for them to inflate they are stable, predictable flying machines. The inputs are the same as flying a rigid kite so the skills will transfer.

At $35 my foil was so cheap I didn't care if it wasn't fun, it was worth trying. I keep it with me every time I go fly in case the wind gets really big and I don't want to break the good kites. I also use it if random kids/adults want to try flying a dual line. I'm happy to let a stranger repeatedly crash my $35 kite. Not so with the more fragile ones.

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I did not even consider any foils, that looks like a pretty cheap kite do you think it will keep an 11yr boy entertained? Ive been showing him delta tricks and hes really digging that but I think this foil may be best to get him the basics

Kites seem to resonate with some people and not as much with others. My girlfriend can fly dual lines just fine, but after 10 minutes or so of flying she is usually done and ready to move on with her day. On the other hand I spend hours in a field flying kites. When I was 13 I made a delta-conye single line kite in algebra class with dowels and tyvek. I flew that kite whenever I could for years until one fateful day I the line broke in super heavy wind and the kite floated off into obvlivion. Well actually it was a farmers field. He was nice enough to let me look around for the rest of the evening but I never did find it. If you're son has the bug he's going to love anythign that gets in the air and the better it flys the more fun he will have. In my experience the foils fly great. If there is enough wind for them to inflate they are stable, predictable flying machines. The inputs are the same as flying a rigid kite so the skills will transfer.

At $35 my foil was so cheap I didn't care if it wasn't fun, it was worth trying. I keep it with me every time I go fly in case the wind gets really big and I don't want to break the good kites. I also use it if random kids/adults want to try flying a dual line. I'm happy to let a stranger repeatedly crash my $35 kite. Not so with the more fragile ones.

Agreed with everything in your post thank you. We watched some foil videos and were both sold haha.

So would the prism snapshot 1.2 be comparable to the hq symphony? Purely aesthetic... but do not like the color of the hq's

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There is a Review of a HQ Symphony beach in the review section. I love that little foil. I think at that end of the scale that they would be pretty much the same. Personal preference for branding and colours really.

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I have flown the HQ Symphony 1.2 Foil and I own a Prism Snapshot 1.2.

They are very similar. The Symphony pulls a bit harder and the Snapshot moves a bit faster.

Both have a bit of trouble staying inflated when the wind gets low.

You can get them in 1.4 size also, The slightly bigger size is much easier to fly in lower wind.

HQ Symphony 1.2 8-31mph

Prism Snapshot 1.2 6-25mph

HQ Symphony 1.4 4-31mph

Prism Snapshot 1.4 4-25mph

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  • 2 weeks later...

The snapshot came before we went on vacation and we did head to a park while we were up north. Winds were good but just so inconsistent nothing like being on the beach where its just blowing and blowing. He had a blast and did really well I was surprised. Hes down south now with grandparents but when he comes back the flying will continue.

Also after years of trying to track down the kite I had when I was a kid it appears my parents have located it, I will make a separate thread on that though because I have questions about a 15 year old kite getting back in action. It is Top of the Line brand though and from what I read they appeared to be good back in the day.

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I recently joined this group and fly with them. They have a variety of kites that you and your son can try out.

this is the facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/emeraldcoastkiteflyingclub/

here is the web page

http://www.eckfc.net/index.html

We fly SLK's, dual line, and quads kites.

My 9 year old started flying dual lines, now he has a quad and flys it better than i do mine.

John

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I recently joined this group and fly with them. They have a variety of kites that you and your son can try out.

this is the facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/emeraldcoastkiteflyingclub/

here is the web page

http://www.eckfc.net/index.html

We fly SLK's, dual line, and quads kites.

My 9 year old started flying dual lines, now he has a quad and flys it better than i do mine.

John

Thanks man, I tried searching for something local but was not able to. Sent request to join FB group and checking out the website now, would be great to actually meet some other flyers so they can tell me what I am doing wrong when trying certain tricks :). Flew last night with the wife in navarre was perfect might head back out again tonight

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