mystainedskin

Magic Sticks .. the next level

64 posts in this topic

So I figured we would continue the journey of Magic Sticks to the next level...since so many are interested.

I recently made a set from the scrap pile..granted these are not store or shop purchased. Weight distribution for my specific setup described will most likely not work for yours.

As a flier that doesn't use them... I have tried several versions of revs..whether it be Shook mesh, Rev all sizes and vents.. in Tresure Island and Kite Fest Louisine . Not just a test drive...an all weekend type of thing....I still prefer no sticks. BUT enjoy the journey of learning. So one of my standards is now equipped with the homemade 16" version..post-7551-0-74299500-1398212717_thumb.jppost-7551-0-73132500-1398212734_thumb.jp

As you can see, I added pigtails specifically for the journey of expirementation. I started with my sticks at 11.75" from the top of the vertical. Where I got this measurement. .I don't know..but a good place to start.

From speaking with Paul LaMasters and Scott Weider recently I received some "tuning tips" so this is how I set the kite up and tested.

At said distance down the vertical I square magic sticks off the vertical rod to tie my "starter" bridle. Then I used the method mentioned by Scott in which you toss the kite by the leading edge into a glide to check the balance of the kite. I personally am L.E. heavy and need to start tuning and tweaking for maximum performance and a feel to keep my "flavor" smiling.

Hope some great comments come along to help the masses gain a greater understanding of their kite inside and out.

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I am guessing that the LE heavy condition is caused from using fairly large rods for the sticks! If I remember correctly, kits or other made sticks use a small (1/8") rod for the rear spar! I would try a smaller rod before I got too wild in moving them a bunch! Paul L. had a diagram on the Rev forum, describing how to make them, I'll see if I can find it and verify the size stick he used!!

Found his directions, hope this transfers:

http://revkites.com/forum/uploads/monthly_07_2011/post-92-131168046501.jpg

Another diagram:

http://www.revkites.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=8434

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One link doesn't show the stick's diameter and the other isn't going through! Darn!! I think I have it downloaded and saved in my docs somewhere! I'll look and post if I find them!

Earlier in the Rev thread, he did mention 1/8" rods though!!

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Scap pile ...can't be picky :) Methods and principles are still transferable to any situation.

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Think they are 4mm carbon rods...

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point 125 carbon TUBE (not the rod, overkill, too heavy, original design called for 157s I believe)

Scott, you have a curvature in both down spars too, so those "legs" or truss lines are too tight. Leaving it this way is how many of the europeans run sticks though, it's more floaty on the edge of the wind window, but you are giving up some low end wind range as the compromise, pick you poison!

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Instructions in my kit, said to make sure the frame is not distorted in any way when you tighten the truss lines, just snug. " Lines should be tight, without introducing any bending to kite frame"

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Watch out Scott, you'll be putting a French Bridle on soon...

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Watch out Scott, you'll be putting a French Bridle on soon...

Is that lingerie or a wife?

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I saw the (1/8th") and didn't see/notice the "tube" in there!! But it does show how small and light the sticks are overall!! Using the bigger rods for sticks should throw your weight off considerably!!

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The curvature must be from the ground. .on flat concrete all 6 points are at the just slack position. Moved my sticks down to 12.5" and test flew today on long lines low wind...great. Then 30' in no wind in the middle of the street...still to be decided on that end.

With this setting..I dropped the kite at chest height and it caught a glide over 15'..nice and flat.

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On my SUL (with the bits) I like long and short lines. Nothing in between feels as nice.

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So yesterday. .. sticks and some 80' in the rain. I started my roll up journey with Mr. Weiders half axel rollup and out....How easy was that? :o Progressed onto some full axel flic flac and roll up situations...

I need a B2 with a set... this could become VERY interrrrrrresting :)

No video from the rain..but this week is supposed to be awesome weather, so soon.

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With a B2 with sticks, you'll only every use the light frame. I leave my 2 wrap in my Std sail, and that's been up past 25mph.

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One link doesn't show the stick's diameter and the other isn't going through! Darn!! I think I have it downloaded and saved in my docs somewhere! I'll look and post if I find them!

Earlier in the Rev thread, he did mention 1/8" rods though!!

I saw those homemade sticks in a video this morning on Facebook and they look gigantic in size, compared to the sets on my Revs. I would assume that would affect the balance of the kite, as well as the parasitic drag.

In this photo you can see how thin mine are, and they weigh almost nothing.

post-8031-0-10309600-1399464352_thumb.jp

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I saw those homemade sticks in a video this morning on Facebook and they look gigantic in size, compared to the sets on my Revs. I would assume that would affect the balance of the kite, as well as the parasitic drag.

He used tubes instead of thin fiberglass rods. You can do either, you just have to have the parts. I agree, I think it affects the balance of the kite. The weight of those tubes reaching farther away from the kite affects the center of gravity on a different plane. I think it leads to less drive/more brake.

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Yes...and setup different due to that fact...but the glide is still there. In wind(3mph and above), the weight has no effect for me when balanced. I get the same results as if I would pick up a seasoned fliers kite with sticks. However, in the low to no range..it makes a difference for sure. This kite has gorilla duct tape down the verticals...so the weight distribution and the kites reaction differ from an unmodified kite also...even before the homemade with what is there materials. I was flying 50' before this and the toss launch was unreal...nice slow glide out 50' from a gentle toss...popping up ready so easily.

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Urban Play:

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I guess I should also add the glide characteristics are different from an unmodified kite....since we are following a test and fly sort of pattern with my post. This setup tends to turn L.E. away from pilot very quickly and enter a flat glide away...pretty neat. By the way... my sticks are approximately 12.75" from the top of the verticals now.. I do not know what "stock" setup is...but somewhere in that area of 12 to 12.5 I believe.

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I guess I should also add the glide characteristics are different from an unmodified kite....since we are following a test and fly sort of pattern with my post. This setup tends to turn L.E. away from pilot very quickly and enter a flat glide away...pretty neat. By the way... my sticks are approximately 12.75" from the top of the verticals now.. I do not know what "stock" setup is...but somewhere in that area of 12 to 12.5 I believe.

The instructions with the 16" kit said 12" from the LE. ( 9" for Rev ll ) Not sure if the distance is different for the 12" Kit, but it didn't mention anything on the instruction sheet, so it probably is the same.

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Last night .. I switched back to no sticks for a short line session. I have to say,it was nice to be home!

I will still fly and test the sticks..and play roll up games. BUT....I AM a no sticks kind of guy.

The most EPIC session I think I have ever had....

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Nice video, I have to say, It would be nice to be young again, I had to take pain medication after watching all that running around!

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Properly set up...sticks will for sure help with that. Just not my cup of tea.. maybe it's because I can do the stuff needed before I used them...?

The roll up stuff however is another story. It's alot of fun to see a rev perform 2 line style tricks. I have seen some that can do this without sticks....Unfortunately, I am not one of them :P

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you know you could still do the "glide keeping" part and "roll-ups" too, but dump the connection between the two stand-offs, right Scott?

Dave Ashworth rigs his kites with a three line system, so each wing is still fully independent. The center of the leading edge is where the 3rd line is affixed, plus the bottom and outer end-caps. He sews a belt-loop into the leading edge for each side, but you could just run a larks-head/pig-tail arrangement thru the bridle hole in the sleeve at the leading edge. Do not affix to the bridle itself though.

Since you are enjoying the experiment journey, here's another variable to test. Who knows, maybe you get the best of both worlds (with & without sticks).

Those fat tube stand-offs sure bother me on your kite. A point 125 carbon tube comes 48 inches long and the fittings are available too, try Goodwin for parts. If you get it all rigged up correctly (and looking sharp) you could sell it off and recover your investment when the testing is done.

We are sure enjoying your efforts buddy!

fly safe

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you know you could still do the "glide keeping" part and "roll-ups" too, but dump the connection between the two stand-offs, right Scott?

Dave Ashworth rigs his kites with a three line system, so each wing is still fully independent. The center of the leading edge is where the 3rd line is affixed, plus the bottom and outer end-caps. He sews a belt-loop into the leading edge for each side, but you could just run a larks-head/pig-tail arrangement thru the bridle hole in the sleeve at the leading edge. Do not affix to the bridle itself though.

Since you are enjoying the experiment journey, here's another variable to test. Who knows, maybe you get the best of both worlds (with & without sticks).

Those fat tube stand-offs sure bother me on your kite. A point 125 carbon tube comes 48 inches long and the fittings are available too, try Goodwin for parts. If you get it all rigged up correctly (and looking sharp) you could sell it off and recover your investment when the testing is done.

We are sure enjoying your efforts buddy!

fly safe

It would seem to me that the flight characteristics of a Rev with the heavier tubes show in the photo, would not be quite the same as the rods that I have in the kits that I installed on my Revs, that I purchased at Flying Smiles Kites .

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