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The Phoenix Pro

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Paul LaMasters    456
10 minutes ago, happysuperbutton said:

Thanks Wayne for that detailed experience flying it. I'm mad envious. Such beautiful sails against a blue sky.

When you said increase wind range, that means like if a rev is 3-8mph, then the phoenix is 4-9, right? Opposed to wider range like 2-9.

Increased to me would mean a wider wind range

Can see how the kite would need more wind to fly given the TE vents.

And what's this Ashes model ye speaketh of? Is it a color option or an entirely different sail construction? I see Ameyst and FireandIce options but no Ashes yet.

Ashes is an SUL (Super Ultra Light kite) designed for the lowest range of winds (before indoor), as opposed to the other offerings by Bazzer, not a color choice.

Also, isn't Rev's new direction also with 5/16 rods? Rx/XX.. sounds like it's a unison choice over 1/4 rods. Is stiffer better for precision and inverted flight? (generally speaking, I know every pilot is an individual)

Yes, therein lies the problem, most of us prefer a more responsive leading edge, even if that also means less durable.  Rev's new direction is for people who haven't ever flown a sport kite.  They need it worthy of a sound beating and it is with the fat tube in the there.  It flies differently, whether that is good or bad is a personal choice.  My personal sentiment is that the kite lacks precision due to excessive oversteer. I don't want anything "free", make me work for every control command.  Like a go-cart instead of a Cadillac, tight and responsive.  With bigger winds blowing, many pilots prefer a lessened glide (Bazzer's Pro Phoenix offers this) built in, so the kite doesn't surge suddenly.  I'm the opposite, I want the kite to leap forward when commanded to and will deal with the twitchy as necessary to get instant full sail's worth of power applied after slack lining.

Thanks for chiming in on the Ppros, I really miss having a "magazine" to read in-depth technical reviews on kite models like here https://kitelife.com/2007/02/01/issue-52-review-of-b-series-by-revolution-kites/

Sure it might be some kind of conflict of interest between manufacturers, but a kite is a kite and we all love love kites.

Maybe I'll write my own up on a blog somewhere, there's a number of new models (Ppro, freliene, Rx, XX, Spider, Classic, etc) that im sure New comers would like to read up on outside of the sales-descriptions on commerce sites...hehehe

 

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Wayne Dowler    1,459

Wind range - more for the higher with the TE vents, not so much on the lower. So a fair (?) comparison might be to add a mile or three to the top end and lose one or two from the bottom. Again compared to a Rev.

Ashes is Bazzer's answer to the need for a full sail in lighter winds. There are no vents and construction is based on the old SUL formula, with Bazzer's tweaks from the "B" pro series. It has a lighter LE pocket and I think uses lighter material for the sail. Also uses the "B" pro profile, with a deeper center and changes to the outside wing cut. With the light frame (P-100) I'm pretty sure it will keep up with my Zen! It is that good!

Almost all the Rev products are now equipped with that fatter frame. There was talk of modifying the "inny fitting" to still use the old frames. Inquiring around, that doesn't seem to be the case, you have to use that bigger frame. I think the "Classic" (a rebranded "B") still uses caps and still uses the old frames, but I can stand to be corrected if not.

All told - the Phoenixes have 6 sail choices now - Ashes, std, mid, f/v, x/v, and Mega vent. Not a lot of Mega's out there yet, but the summer winds we've had, justify our wanting them for the team! Been pretty windy so far this year! 

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Wayne Dowler    1,459
Bokke99999    8

Out of the P Pros, my pick is the Ashes. We have flown with them a lot in variable wind conditions and even flew them at the top of their wind range with no hassles and no breakages of the P100 frames. The Ashes is well made and well balanced which makes gaining ground in low winds a lot easier. I flew my mid vent P Pro and B Pro not long ago to judge the difference between the 2 and was surprised just how different they felt for me. This is my personal opinion and as with all kite flying, it is subjective on the pilots tastes, I preferred the P Pro mid vent. For me it felt more stable and solid in the sky. The TE vents make a difference in how the kite flies. Reversing is better and overall control feels better. For the B Pro, I felt that I needed more brake and the kite felt less solid. The P Pro had P300 frame and the B Pro a 3 wrap frame. Just my 2 cents. And the P Pros look sexy too.


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makatakam    1,566
7 hours ago, Bokke99999 said:

Out of the P Pros, my pick is the Ashes. We have flown with them a lot in variable wind conditions and even flew them at the top of their wind range with no hassles and no breakages of the P100 frames. The Ashes is well made and well balanced which makes gaining ground in low winds a lot easier. I flew my mid vent P Pro and B Pro not long ago to judge the difference between the 2 and was surprised just how different they felt for me. This is my personal opinion and as with all kite flying, it is subjective on the pilots tastes, I preferred the P Pro mid vent. For me it felt more stable and solid in the sky. The TE vents make a difference in how the kite flies. Reversing is better and overall control feels better. For the B Pro, I felt that I needed more brake and the kite felt less solid. The P Pro had P300 frame and the B Pro a 3 wrap frame. Just my 2 cents. And the P Pros look sexy too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Take a B-Pro and a P-Pro and put one on top of the other (fully assembled) and check the shapes of the sails. I don't have a P-Pro yet that I could compare to my B-Pros, but I suspect there may be contour differences that may account for differences in flight. Changing the aspect ratio even slightly will make a noticeable change in performance. That's why kite manufacturers use templates to cut and assemble the individual panels once the performance characteristics they want the kite to have are achieved. Staying as close as possible to the same dimensions yields predictable performance from the finished sail. I believe that Bazzer, over the years that he's been building kites, has developed a pattern that differs slightly from the Revs and gives his newer builds a significantly different feel. You can alter the ratios of a sail and still keep the same size frame members.

I would love to sit and talk to him strictly about the technical aspects of kite building.

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