kwmf

B-Series ... Reflex ... B-flex

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2 hours ago, SoggyWombat said:

And as a result of your experiences, regardless of how right or wrong they are, you feel you have paid a due that gives a right to mock? Excuse me if I don't see the logic behind your thinking. Perhaps as a KiteLife Subscriber I should cash in my allowance of mockery and aimlessly belittle for the sake of making only myself feel better.

You can spit on a rose, but it's still a rose.

Soggy.


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Yeah...and a steaming pile of $#!+ is still a steaming pile of $#!+, and regardless of your opinion on the matter I will continue to point out that Poway, California is home to a steaming pile of $#!+ .  They've screwed over me and too many of my friends to say nothing. I'll mock their sorry butts all I want thanks, because they deserve it.  Feel free to keep buying their kites like they're the greatest thing since sliced bread if you want. I guarantee they don't give a damn about you, only how much money they can get from your pocket. I on the other hand, as well as many in this thread know that they are not the only game in town, nor (in spite of their delusions) are they even the best game in town. 

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I do think there is an important line between vitriol and honest cumulative frustration from a passionate hard core flier community.

2 hours ago, SoggyWombat said:

Perhaps as a KiteLife Subscriber I should cash in my allowance of mockery and aimlessly belittle for the sake of making only myself feel better.

:(

Subscriptions are elective and not a requirement to participate in 90% of this website, including this discussion - I'd rather we not try to make such a leap.

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As usual my passions get the better of me and brother JB swoops in and helps me recognize I need to reign it in. Thanks, JB.  Here's the deal,@SoggyWombat, for years, I proudly flew Revs and recommended them to anyone that asked and taught folks how to fly them, putting my own equipment that I paid for at risk of damage with no thought of compensation if something were to happen. Went did I do this? Because they are fun as hell to fly and I wanted to share that with anyone who showed interest.  It was worth it, because I thought Rev was worth it and that the feeling was mutual. Then all of a sudden by some of their actions, it became abundantly clear to me and many other fliers that their only care was the dollars they could take in, not the fliers on the fields teaching the general public the awesomeness of this 4-lined thrill to fly, the retailers who were their lifeline for years getting their product in the hands of fliers, not the teams who spent hours practicing to perfect routines and show the world how great these kites are, and especially not the beginner flier spending multiple hundred of dollars on an entry level kite with the incorrect "Club whatever" guidance to get them going. We finally saw that the emperor had no clothes and it was funny to us. So we mock, and will continue to mock as long as there's ammunition for mockery (like calling a kite that is an identical copy of the B Series a 1.5 Classic and pretending that it's a whole new kite like no one will notice) coming out of Poway. 

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If we're getting into belittling any manufacturers because of the compromises to their product that they have to make to stay in business, then I unequivocally state that they all suck, compared to my home-made. Exactly the quality, performance, design, durability and customer service that I demand. So, if you want something you're not getting from someone else, DO IT YOURSELF, but please don't belittle the kite because you don't like the people who make it. IMHO it is still the standard against which ALL others are judged, and will remain so for quite some time.

What others -- all others -- produce is based on flight principles of quad kites first invented and refined by the Hadzickis, and that is a part of history that will not change, no matter what anyone's opinion states. I have a bunch. I will fly them 'til they fall apart. I will buy more.

Will I buy and try others? Of course I will. Who wouldn't? Will they fly like a Rev? Maybe, to an extent. Do I want them to be exactly like a Rev? No, that's why I buy and fly Revs, because they fly like a Rev. Should Rev change their line-up? Absolutely! 

I don't know . . . . . . . . . .  It's gonna be an interesting road.

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JB, I certainly hope that what I am attempting to point out isn't seen as vitriol?

 

And my reference to my subscription was merely in reference to money allowing criticism to be expressed. I would also like to think that there is some integrity in restricting slamming of any business related to the kiting community.

 

My whole point in posting wasn't to antagonise, rather it was simply done to highlight that negativity and he said, she said mentality only serves to create division.

 

Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

 

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Your feelings are well stated and well motivated, I wasn't implying any impropriety on your part... All good - exchange ensues. :)

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On 2/6/2017 at 5:18 PM, Wayne Dowler said:

If I remember some of the really old videos - iQuad used SLEs in their early days. Even before the "B" made its appearance on the beach!

Not true ;-) The initial iQuad days involved Rev1s for the first couple of months, but they were not loaded with SLEs. We did move fairly quickly to 1.5s and those didn't have SLEs in them either.

 

 

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Like many others, I've spent literally thousands of dollars on Revolution Kites. I was a full REV supporter until I actually saw and experienced in person what was happening.. I despise the fact the quality went down and the price went up.. Kites that require less workmanship are priced as higher or higher than kites like the B-series which are literally now sold under another name. Like that fact or not, it's true..

I have witnesses that will back me up with me saying MANY months ago that the 1.5 Reflex was being staged to be the replacement for the B-series..As cynical as I am, even I didn't expect them them to do what they did.. I've personally lost a lot of respect for the company right there..

They make a great kite but by them deciding what I liked instead of asking me, I have to agree with others they lost touch with what and most importantly who matters.

I started a related thread about 4 lines...your choices..I hope it continues to stay on the high road with open dialog about what is out there.  We choose from what's available in our areas or via internet ordering. We vote for what we like by spending money on what we like. By changing the design of their spars so they would break easier and would have to be replaced or ignoring the inquiries about the defect claiming everything was the same, Rev destroyed my personal confidence in the brand.. If you read my posts you know I fly anything with lines regardless of who made it.. I'm not paid to endorse anyone's product.

I'll think twice bfore sending Rev my money for a new kite again.. I learned my lesson repairing the leading edge in a kite flying a "new Imprived" Green Trimmed Spar.. I will make one exception to that statement by supporting Eliot and his Mesh kites. It's a unique product by a masterpiece builder that just happens to have the Revolution Brand attached to the sail. I buy it because of Eliot's craftmanship not because of Rev.. There's a reason they've lost the masterpiece builders of their kites for the most part. Unfortunately it's not their product, it's the business model. I'll buy a used Rev in a heartbeat if it's a kite I like or need.. Rev's got their money from it and it's not going to them from my pocket.

A year ago if you mentioned any company by name that made the bowtie that wasn't Rev you'd get severely shamed and from many forums even banned. The topic was absolutely taboo.  Even the global Rev Count topic on their own forums is is starting to spiral because a different kite got mentioned. I respect their forum and @monkey's efforts in keeping that going. I'm still a member there but that forum is only for Rev talk..

To Rev and some of their followers, if you didn't buy their product it seems like you are not only a traitor, but you don't deserve the air to fly a kite in or even breathe in the first place. I appreciate what @John Barresi has here with open communication about kites.. ALL Kites. I like it so much I'm willing to pay the nominal optional fee to keep it going. He even has drawings for free stuff. Awesome..

I personally like Rev kites.. They made a great product and defended their territory successfully and aggressively. Their entire business model was built on exclusivity. With the expiration of their patent, they've lost that. At this point they need to become competitive in the market they pioneered or they will fade away. Personally, I also like the products of almost all of their competitors.. The stitching and piecework perfection on one competitor's items has me noticing sewing mistakes on my Revs with alarming frequency and that's at nearly half the price. The touch of the masterpiece maker's hand on another new offering has many people (including me) looking seriously at all the alternatives.

FWIW, and I've said this in other places.. Support the kiting industry and buy the kites YOU like.. Anyone telling you what to buy has an ulterior motive and should be ignored.. REV is no longer the only game in town and if nothing else, healthy competition should present you "the consumer" with alternatives and at worst different options at different price levels.. It may actually bring the price of the kite YOU like down to earth . If you like the alternatives, buy them. If you'd rather have a Rev then by all means buy it. Enjoy your choice and have a great time flying a kite you love.

Personally I welcome options and have even made a few of my own as have others. 10 hours or so of work and i have something I know I like and in the case of a recent build, I spent less than $50 total. Kites are a passion for many of us and for some so is brand loyalty. Me, if it's bridled right I'll fly the bag it came in and be just as happy.  If you aren't having fun flying kites, you're doing it wrong.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, monkey said:

Not true ;-) The initial iQuad days involved Rev1s for the first couple of months, but they were not loaded with SLEs. We did move fairly quickly to 1.5s and those didn't have SLEs in them either.

Aye, we were on SLE sails for our first full season (2007) before the B-Series was released, but never SLE spars. :) 

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33 minutes ago, John Barresi said:

Aye, we were on SLE sails for our first full season (2007) before the B-Series was released, but never SLE spars. :) 

Except for DeRooy at the first WSIKF!

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5 hours ago, John Barresi said:

Aye, we were on SLE sails for our first full season (2007) before the B-Series was released, but never SLE spars. :) 

Oh, so that's what you were on. I always thought you were high on kites, or something. Scotch and Soda?

"... I feel higher than a kite can fly, Oh me, Oh my, baby do I feel high."

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I know the Revolution website doesn't show enough photos of the Reflex Technology and RX or XX models.. so thought it would be interesting to some to see some close up photos in the review done recently over at rcgroups.

I've been really eyeing a Rx or XX, but total newbie to revs still..my first Rev (used) is "out for delivery" as of this post. hehe 

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