happysuperbutton

Newbie Bay Area friends and Rev learning tips

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Quick question,

How much is "too much wind"?

In terms of damaging/wearing down kite durability. Goal being to extend the life of a kite as much as possible but still also flying it as much as possible.

Like I'm noticing I get the most thrill out of flying my kite (midvent) when the winds are up and the sail is really bowed and lines are really taught (easier flying too) But is that a bad habit?

I think I'm asking like when should you call it quits vs when have you reached the kite's limits. I'm sure there's some variables (switching lines/rods/vents) for any given scenario, but all and any info will be great for my pocket.

Thank you in advance!

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Once the material is stretched it will be forever stretched and that DOES change the way it flies forever..

If you truly enjoy the pull, you should consider a foil like my Symphony 2.2.4,  A Skydog Powerfoil or a similar small traction kite..

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The upper limit of the manufacturer's specified wind range, or a few mph less than that if you take gusts into consideration, is a good point to move to the next venting level. Although most kites can be flown well above that recommended upper limit, it will prematurely stretch the sail material. Now, I say "prematurely" because the material will eventually stretch anyway. Pressure of the wind in the sail will make it happen and there is no way to stop it. You gotta face the fact that it will happen, because kites-- like cars  -- ultimately just wear out from being used.

So knowing that, there is only one question left to ask: Are you gonna fly, or you gonna watch? If you can afford to replace the kite sooner than expected, go for it and fly. If your budget is limited, switch kites or fly someone else's, or pack it up and watch. It's up to you and please know that the kite will still fly fairly well even if the sail is stretched. It just won't be at peak performance depending on your style of flying. If you're into precision, I think it actually performs better. A new crisp sail is better for a yank and spank style and tricking.

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Too much wind??

All up to you and your equipment. Can you stand the conditions, being sand-blasted all day? Not my idea of fun, but we do it anyways. When it comes to equipment - that is a different story .....

Why do you think there are so many different "models" in a series? It's an attempt to match up sail to conditions. I've seen it go both ways in high wind - people putting in the stiffest rods they have, afraid of any bend in the LE, to people ignoring the conditions and only flying their "favorite" setup. Can you push things too far? Tell me when a seam lets go or rods start breaking, or....?? 

You can play it safe or push it to the edge, but if something explodes - fun time is over! 

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Thanks again you guys, can always count on picking up something new that'll stay with me for a lifetime every time.

I asked cause I only have one setup.. a rr/3wrap midvent, looking forward to building up a full set eventually. But in the meantime if I know more then I can continue to fly all i want and also still max out the lifespan of the kite.

So maybe I should have asked when do you know it's time to bring it in to change your setup/be done.. do you guage by the le bowing, kite flying too fast, I love all the above full power but I am still trying to recognise the peak points or telltale signs that if I keep this going it's gonna hurt the kite or framesplode. 

For example that other time I posted having flown my midvent in 20mph ish winds by the coast someone had advised to refrain making that a habit as it's "too much" for the midvent. I thought flying it was a total thrill lol. 

Is there any "rules" or best practice on what you change first? Stronger frame, same sail, or vented sail same frame.. probably guessing it'll boil down to individual preference but what's the harm in asking :))

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Myself - I change sails before frames. I do have "favorite" setups in my kites, and rather than swap frames and mess up that, I'll switch sails. Be aware that this is "MY" way, and not for everyone. Part of it is that I had a stroke years ago and I want nothing to do with chancing a face plant!! In fact, I'm almost always the first to switch to some vent, because of that fear! 

My rule of thumb is how it "feels" in my hands. Is it in control? Is it surging when a gust hits? Can I just tune it out or ????? In the end it's common sense I go by, if it feels like too much, swap or pack it in!

PS: having 5 sails to choose from makes it a bit easier sometimes, but can also lead to second guessing yourself!! Luckily it isn't hard to switch if you guess wrong!

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When you feel like you have almost no control over the kite, you should have switched about 5mph ago. When it hits 15mph I'm already on my full vent. I don't like a lot of pull and find greater satisfaction in precision and control. 

If you like the pull and the speed, make your next kite a Rev Supersonic. You'll literally hoot flying that puppy! Give it a try next time you see someone flying one. Just remember, things are gonna happen really fast. It flies backward nearly as fast as your midvent flies forward.

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14 hours ago, makatakam said:

When you feel like you have almost no control over the kite, you should have switched about 5mph ago. When it hits 15mph I'm already on my full vent. I don't like a lot of pull and find greater satisfaction in precision and control. 

If you like the pull and the speed, make your next kite a Rev Supersonic. You'll literally hoot flying that puppy! Give it a try next time you see someone flying one. Just remember, things are gonna happen really fast. It flies backward nearly as fast as your midvent flies forward.

lol great response. I still fly in 15 on the mid, all I got and have I mentioned how much I've fallen in love with my rev? XD :wub:

I'm still not able to fly backwards as fast as forward without it bowtieing.. seeing a supersonic pulling that off might be much fun.

I've looked at power foils on the side per some recommendations in the thread here... for the thrill of the pull and such. Can't bring myself to justify the cost of any when all I have are revs in my sight now. :wub: I'm also a real lightweight you might never have to return to this thread again if I bought one.

 I do have a midsized Synapse afterall if I really wanted on some days.

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Depending on the sIze, the Synapse can also be converted to 4 line.  

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In short, while gliding downwards with the trailing edge pulled maximum towards you, jogging/running instead of walking is good way of increasing the wumpability of any low wind QLK session (that I just learned recently from here). ... Now over to the rest of the text that might be a bit talkative.

I was kind of concerned that starting with QLKing reduced my over all weekly physical exercise dose (1h of tennis + DLKing + garden/house work). This was particularly the case during my 2.5 months (ending 2.5 weeks ago) period during which I was on a strict QLK diet to see how much QLKing I could pick up during that period. Compared to DLKing I missed out on physical exercise, since you have to move quickly with the wind to do the DLK slack line tricks. Then a voice came to my rescue (at least for QLKs in low wind):

On 9/2/2017 at 2:36 AM, ACrop said:

The forward inverted glide/ float is essential and worth working on. I had a really hard time with it until I tried moving forward faster.

This is an excellent advice that I for some reason came to think of during the second half my QLK low wind session last week - the thought was so sudden that it was like it just came out of nothing or at least the evening sky. I must have missed it elsewhere (or could it be considered to be a well timed remainder?), this was the one post that made it stick in my head providing me with another piece of the puzzle. Sharing is good, keep on talking kiteish so certain isolated north European kiters might eventually learn.

Even though gaining ground is simple with a QLK in my experience, running with the wind made it much more efficient. I now had more room for powering up the sail (i.e. moving backwards in addition to the pulling) making it look much speedier and keen. It was like this second part followed by itself. I think creating the room for powering up (by running forward) it is one thing, but it also sets your feet in motion, once you start running you are in that mode and it is more likely that you continue moving your feet when backing. This active piloting noticeably raised my pulse. For the next low wind session I'm eager to try out how to make good use of this extra room for tensioning the lines, both when flying straight and also when doing turns/rotations. Low wind recently got more attractive both in performance and as a mean of physical exercise!

I had to verify a second time before posting - the improved performance during only half a session could just be coincidental (luck?). And after this second low wind pre-work session yesterday morning, the result was the same. I don't know if you gain more ground by running forward (but suppose so), but at least the "pauses" when you gain ground get much reduced and efficient - the session becomes more vivid. I still got started moving the feet quicker and can now chose the level of exercise I want to get during a low wind session. When trying this out I actually aimed for a time when the forecast said low wind, 1-2m/s mean wind speed - a wind speed that normally doesn't make me long for the field - especially not this field. Normally for this field when minimizing the effort when piloting DLK the forecast should say 4-5m/s mean speed. Another benefit of short intensive sessions is that it would fit other non-kite related life better than long marathon sessions and certainly would make the short (low wind) pre-work sessions more rewarding.

Now when the 2.5 months is over I should probably re-evaluate how quickly I can move forward while gaining ground with DLKs (without back flipping the DLK) as well.

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That works only if you can still run!! Old guys like me use their brakes and walk! I still get to where most of the others get to, just in my own time!

 

PS: I'm usually near the end of the line!!!

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48 minutes ago, Wayne Dowler said:

PS: I'm usually near the end of the line!!!

My guess would be the handle end, right Wayne? :D Unless you crash and tangle a lot.

The end is near. That's my line and I'm sticking to it.

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just as an experiment,...

next time you are out and it is low wind, making sure your "down-wind" area is totally clear and free of obstructions too!

fly the kite to high overhead and turn the leading edge down towards the ground, then release the handles entirely.  See how far the kite will glide away without pilot intervention.

for me, if I released at 80 feet high (saying I'm on 100' lines) the kite will glide away about 200-250 feet (300%)

So there's really no good excuse you can't fly in low/no-wind except YOU'RE LAZY, "you gotta' want it!"

At the end of this video is an example 

 

 

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15 hours ago, makatakam said:

My guess would be the handle end, right Wayne? :D Unless you crash and tangle a lot.

The end is near. That's my line and I'm sticking to it.

LOL!!! Tail gunner usually, sometimes 3rd. Mega fly - anywhere there's room for me!

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@Paul LaMasters, before seeing the video I considered what "releasing the handles completely" could mean. Was it releasing the LE lines or could it mean giving some slack in the trailing edge lines as well. Now I understand what you meant (as in totally letting go of the handles), though I would prefer some more traditional means of gaining ground:) (OK I did actually understand that it served as a demo of the built in gliding capabilities). Also clearly demonstrated for me by seeing the video, the increase in "vividness potential" I got from running forward during the gaining of ground glide could be used for so much more than I originally thought of (of course mostly out of reach today, but perhaps some of the skills will be possible to acquire in a future).

8 hours ago, Paul LaMasters said:

So there's really no good excuse you can't fly in low/no-wind except YOU'RE LAZY, "you gotta' want it!"

Or perhaps replacing the word "fly" (as in "pilot") with "practice"?

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Question, all suggestions welcomed!

How should I stake down my Rev at the beach? Soft sand and my screwdriver stake are not very good friends..

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REI will sell you an individual tent stake,

they make stuff just for sand (like an empty milk jug with part of the top cut off, save the handle part though) , and a carabiner onto it (fill with sand) 

A longer screwdriver (try a garage sale for on the cheap)

Magic Sticks?

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Anything that is longer, wider, or both. Increased length and/or increased surface area will do the trick, except in very strong wind. In very strong wind, the best solution is to head for the nearest bar and have a beer.

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1 hour ago, makatakam said:

In very strong wind, the best solution is to head for the nearest bar and have a beer.

:lol:

Okay guess I'm gonna need one longer.

Tent stake? I have a portable Coleman sunshade that came with their own metal ground stakes, no longer than 10inch to a foot maybe.. those don't do squat at the beach for the tent, only on ground. I'll look what REI offers.

The bottle with handle idea filled with sand sounds like it could work out well too.

Thanks everyone!

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they're called "sand anchors", quite popular with easy-ups

(i prefer those huge plastic refill bottles of Windex over basic milk jugs)

When you travel by airlines you can't always take a decent kite stake, so I use the Orvis kite bag itself as the anchor point.

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Reporting back from weekend trip to the beach... In the end, I used driftwood for staking down my Rev. Driftwood/tree branches were plentiful for the pickings on the beach surprisingly... Stabbed a long firm pine deep into the sand and all was great. Winds were around 10-15mph, some pulling on the wood stake, but it held fine!

Also got to do some water play for the very first time (sing it)

My midvent drowned, didn't expect the weight of the water or current to be that much. And yes, the current was going the correct way hehe, I made sure of that. But when it came back out it flew so good still and looked so fun splashing and tossing water everywhere like when a puppy shakes itself off after a bath!! :lol:

I saved video footage but I am so backed up now on my video log editing.. back logged from September hahaha.

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Don't forget to rinse with fresh water after a dip in the ocean. The salt water speeds up the deterioration of the kite's components.

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Hey guys, heading up to the bay this coming week. Please ping me, would love to fly with some dual and quad line fliers. 

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