Kansas Flier

Good to know. Now I feel better about taking some credit for the few times I have rolled the kite up while doing a backflip. I wondered if there was a special word for accidentally doing a trick.

From time to time I have been know to have a bit of GAS. Guitar Acquisition Syndrome. I have made guitar purchases and thought about how much kite it would be worth, and vice versa.

The Widow NG's live in the closet upstairs. It's the Ospreys that live multiply in the basement. I'm not really worried about their numbers growing much because the Single Line Kite is the dominate species down there. I do not own any boutique/smaller production dual line kites. This will probably change soon. I figure that I'll beat on the Widow NG for a while longer as I become more consistent in my flying abilities-tricks, precision, etc. I'll second what TonyB said. If you are buying a kite for you, save your cash to buy a better-than-mass-produced kite. I do not regret buying any of the Dual Line kites I have, but I would have to admit buying higher-end kites would have been a better direction to go with the cash. I'm not sure I would have fewer kites, those buggers would still find a way to multiply. Too bad about the quality issues. I believe I have that same issue with mine. The only time I ever think about it is when I'm setting up the kite. Any flight issues it might cause are dwarfed by my piloting skills, or lack of skills. There are rubber covers that go over the tips of the leading edges. I have lost a couple of these(off different kites). Go to the store and buy a couple extras and keep them with the kite, that way you'll never lose the ones that it came with.

The one I prefer to fly the most? I can't answer that question(Widow NG) because the other kites might hear(but they can't read inside parentheses) and I might have a riot on my hands. If you had been in my basement, you would know that I am outnumbered. As for precision and tracking, I would give the nod to my HQ Bebop, but I couldn't axel or backflip the kite. The Limbo 2 would probably come in a close second. Again, I couldn't axel this kite well, and If I recall, I could backflip the kite but it didn't want to stay in that position. These two kites make me look like I am much better at precision flying than I am. Indeed. That was my reasoning for buying a second Widow NG. I bought the third and looking at buying a forth for the different sail colors and patterns. The one I usually take with me is the Special Edition- red, white and blue. The Widow NG tracks well for me; its trick-ability is well above my ability. I would choose the Jewel* over the Vision, if you are buying kites for others to fly. If you are buying the kite for an alternative to the Widow NG for yourself to fly, I would go with the Dream On* over the Freebird. If you want to get the best kite for the money, I would look at the Widow NG as your base kite and "buy up" from there. In my opinion, there are not many large production kites that are better all around kites than then the Premier Widow NG. Once you get to the smaller production/ boutique kites, the Widow NG drops quickly from the list, and the price goes up just as fast. *I don't own nor have flown either of these kites, but I have read great reviews on them.

I was wondering if you had wandered into my basement. I'm headed that way as well. I find that, at my skill level, that certain kites do certain tricks better and/or easier than other kites. The Widow NG can do all the tricks I can do, and is capable of a lot more. There are lots of kites that don't like to do a turtle, and there are lots of kites that are easy to pop into that position. I have learned tricks on one kite and "translated" the moves to other kites. Actually this just did this yesterday with the fade I had learned on a Swift two weeks ago, to be able to do a fade on the NG. The kicker- I couldn't axel the Swift, but I could put it in a fade from a flare. The kites I carry for new people to try out: Osprey- It's a tough kite. It's fast, but it will give people a feel for flying. Prism Nexus- Maybe not as tough as the Osprey, it will hold it's own. Quantum- For the people who have graduated from the Osprey/Nexus, so they can get a feel for a larger kite. Whatever I am flying (if none of the above are available)- With a few exceptions, most everything can be fixed/replaced. A side note: The only times I have ever handed the reigns to a new flier was at a kite festival. I can't recall ever breaking out the trainer kite while just flying at my local park. Flying other people's kites is probably your best bet. I have many kites that I have only flown once or twice, and I could have spent that money on better kites.

It's been a while since I have flown either kite. If I recall, the Limbo 2 felt like I was flying on rails with nice turns, as compared to the Osprey's tracking ability...in my hands*, of course. I would feel a lot more comfortable handing over an Osprey to a totally-new kiter than the Limbo 2. I just opened three kites to compare the sticks. The Limbo 2's Leading edges are noticeably smaller in diameter than the Vision and the Freebird. The Freebird and Vision appear to have the same size rods. The Freebird's leading edges feel more flexible than the Vision's leading edges, but they are longer. The Limbo 2's leading edges are the most flexible. I think Premier changed the panel layout of the Vision since I have bought mine, I don't know if they changed the frame. The Vision and Freebird both have two piece lower spreaders. The Limbo 2 has a one piece lower spreader that is attached to the spine by an O-ring that is pulled over the center piece, then the lower spreader is twisted into place. I considered the Widow NG a step-up from the Quantum. A more accomplished flier might see them as a side step. I do like to fly the Quantum, but in good winds, I'm grabbing the NG. The Widow NG has Yo-Yo stoppers, and I have accidentally used them when trying to do another trick, the Quantum doesn't. I do fly it from time to time, mostly when the wind higher. I will use it as my trainer kite for the adult/older teen beginner. I would rather hand over the reigns of a Vision than a Quantum in higher winds. If you teach new kiters how to crash before they ever have the kite in the air, the chances of kite survival is greatly increased. How the wind is behaving, is my main input in choosing a kite for a beginner to try. In lighter wind, the kite might not be able to develop speed to do damage. *In my hands- I like to "Fly Around" and this activity takes up most of my flying time. I have spent more time trying tricks. I am just good enough to know that I am not good enough to give comparisons on trick-ability.

Cool looking kite. Have you gotten to fly it yet?

Limbo 2- I have only flown it a couple of times. I would not think it would survive long being lawn darted. Vision- I think it much tougher than the Limbo 2. I have lawn darted its cousin, the Osprey, more time than I'll admit. My Osprey does double duty as a trainer kite and as a high wind kite with a tail. I think tails look better if the kite can do tight turns. I would skip this step. I used a Quantum for that, then switched to the Widow NG. Depending on the amount of thrashing, the Freebird and Addiction Pro should hold up fine if they are crashed softly. I don't have experience with the other kites you mentioned. Shadow- I really like my Shadow. Would buy another one if something happened to mine.

From my single line kiter perspective, I do fly kites to entertain, at kite festivals. And being a kite festival, there will always be comments and conversations about kites. If your aim is to entertain, kite festivals is where I get my fix. My single line kite flying, on a random weekend at my usual flying spots, is for my entertainment. The amusement of anyone walking around the park is a side effect. When there are people, I'll get a passing comment, "Nice Kite", "Doesn't seem like enough wind", or "The wind'll pick up! It's Kansas". I also like to fly an anchored single line to signal changes in the wind direction and strength. I would note that there are not a lot of people walking around the park when there is snow on the ground; I am out flying for other reasons, mainly- the wind is great. My dual line kiting is done for my own amusement. I'm not that impressive as a dual line kiter to entertain, at a festival or my usual parks.

That sounds like a good idea, I wish I would have thought of that myself. I can't wait to give it a try. I find that the Wala XL and Skate are also nice very low wind fliers. Four?? Lemme guess- One of each color? I am sure that my Laima will have more Laima friends, someday.

Most of the time when I go flying, I'll anchor off multiple kites. I have noticed that when I go to get another kite, the kite or kites in the sky will begin to act up. Has anyone else had this experience? For example: (this might be a long story) One day I headed to the park wanting to see if Clark's Crystal would be a fun tumbler. Well, the winds were a bit on the light side for a box kite but the gusts seemed way more frequent than the lulls. It wasn't the best tumbler, but it flew well with little to no input from me when there was enough wind. So, I anchored it. Took a couple of pictures. Watched it fly. Rechecked the anchor. Watched it fly. Walked off to grab a delta and another anchor. Watched it fall slowly to the ground. Long line launch- Watched it soar into the air. Took a couple of pictures. Walked off the grab that delta.[Repeat twice] I'm launching the delta as I walk over to do a long line launch on the Crystal. Both kites are in the air. Success! Since the Crystal wants to fly to the NNW and flies at a lower angle then the delta which is flying straight north at a higher angle, I anchor the delta upwind of the Crystal. All is well. Walk around. Take some pictures. Watch them fly. Then I go digging for a line set for the Quantum. That's when I heard a familiar yet oddly different song... "And they whirl and they twirl and they tango Singing and Jinging a Jango Floating like the heavens above Looks like Box Kite Love..." ...And that's when I looked up. Really..? So I break up the obscenities. I move the delta upwind. Watch them fly separately. I notice another kite on the other side of the park. Very cool, too bad they set up so far away, as the park runs a half mile north/south and east/west at its widest point. I go back to looking for that line set. Both kites decide they would rather be on the ground. Lines found. Kites relaunched. As I'm laying out my lines, I notice that the kite is no longer flying at the other side of the park. The kite is now headed toward my side of the park. They have to walk around a large pond that runs through the middle of the park. I see it's a stunt kite(I couldn't tell from across the park) I hurry up and lay out the lines, thinking that I can put the Quantum in the air and fly over towa... "And they whirl and they twirl and they tango Singing and Jinging a Jango Floating like the heavens above Looks like Box Kite Love..." ...You gotta be kidding me. By the time I was finished un-weaving that love nest of string and tails, he was almost to me. I grab the Quantum and put it together while I am walking toward him. ...And I'm Chewing gum. The kite looks familiar. It's small and he is having to work to keep it in the air when the wind lulls. It's a Jazz. He had found the kite at his parent's house and had replaced the missing top spreader with a wooden dowel. I hooked up the Quantum to his lines and adjusted the bridle toward "light". He flew it around a bit and commented on how much easier it was to fly. I picked up his Jazz and we moved toward better wind, toward where my anchored kites were... slowly... falling... to the ground. Gee, I wasn't even going to fly the Jazz... I'm watching him fly the Quantum, and taking pictures, as I find a spot to put the Jazz where it won't get stepped on. He has the kite at the top of the wind window, the kite goes into a back flip and does a complete roll-up. Very cool. The kite slowly sinks back to the ground. He asks me, "What do I do?" "I dunno, Yank both lines" Kite unrolls a couple of feet above the ground. Sticks the landing. Super Cool. ...And he didn't mean to do that... Well, that's what he said. The Jazz finds shelter near a tree. I relaunch the Crystal. The delta self-launches as I walk over to it. I avoid even looking at the Jazz. After he left, I did get to fly the Quantum without any more incidents, or roll-ups.... but I had that song stuck in my head... So, does this happen to anyone else, or is it just me?

That's an expensive habit, but sometimes you need one of every color. Any reason will do- from wanting to complete the set to keeping the other kite(s) from getting lonely.

I like the Ospery. I would suggest going with a bigger kite. I find a larger(7'+) kite like the Premier Widow NG is easier to fly in lighter wind than the Osprey. If you want a good light wind(3-10MPH) flier, I would suggest the Skydog UL. I would also like to second(or third, forth,...) the advice of flying the Osprey until you have pretty much quit playing lawn darts and learned to crash softly. As for line, I do most all my flying on 75' 100# Skybond.

You may have a great set of stock lines. I have had bad luck with the stock sets. After the third stretched line I swore off stock sets. I am by no means a skilled pilot, but I can tell the difference between using stock lines and better quality lines. It's mostly noticeable when you have several twists in your line.

I have lots of different lengths and weights. The majority of the time I only use one set- 75ft* 100# Skybond- for all my dual line flying, from the Nexus in high wind to the Shadow when the wind is low. First, I am lazy like that, second, I'm not good enough at tricks to notice the difference. I would recommend making a short set(from a broken or worn set) to practice ground recovery. I used 40ft lines. I know the practice lowered my time spent walking to set up a crashed kite on longer lines. I would also recommend upgrading from the stock/included lines. I have not had good luck with them. *New, it was 75ft. I broke a line flying a Quantum in winds much too gusty. It is now 73ft and showing signs of wear.

I feel ya. I do enjoy not having to run around to keep a kite in the air. The big drawback is that it will cost you money. You'll have to have a collection of kites to match the winds nature blows your way, if you want to fly. The kites that usually make the trip to the field are: Nexus or Osprey with tail. I'll go to these if the wind really picks up. Or someone new to kiting wants to try. Widow NG. This replaced the Quantum as my 6-15 MPH kite. I like it much more than the Quantum. I can fly it in lower wind than the Quantum. Sky Dog UL. For when the wind is getting too low to fly the Widow NG without some work. Shadow. For when the other three won't fly. Beer. For when the Shadow won't fly. What you need to do is get a kite that fits your flying style in given wind conditions. Myself, I like to fly around, maybe do some shapes, do a back flip and an axle or two, and crash a bit... err, I mean work on ground recovery. The kites I bring fit what I want to do- precision, tricks(even a specific trick), make noise or a combination. In other words don't buy a kite specifically made to do tricks, if all you want to do is fly around and make noise.

Get a 12 or 15 foot roll of double sided Velcro. It will probably cost you less than $10. Cut to length. I also use 1/8 inch stretchy cord to replace rubber bands. I buy it by the foot, like 20-30 feet at a time. Cut to length.

Skydog UL. It has a red sail with a black tip. The standard is black with a red tip. Even though I use it as my "teaching kite" in low wind, I do fly it a lot. You will still have to do some walking in its lower wind range, but it will take the punishment of learning to fly in low wind. As for the low wind flying, it can be a workout. It will also help your piloting skills to be able to fly either kite in its low wind range. It helped my skills(not that anyone but myself can tell). I learned the basics, techniques, and tricks of low wind flying on my Quantum. Put a 50 or 100 foot tail on the Nexus and have fun. The wingtips on the Nexus will flutter when it is getting high in it's wind range. I think the Quantum does this as well. I like the sound of a noisy kite roaring through the wind window when the wind is up. You can adjust the bridle for the wind conditions. As for what does the kite that is performing well look like, it depends on what "style" of flying you are attempting- tricks, precision, ballet, speed, fun, noise or any combination- on whether or not the kite is performing well.

I don't know if I have ever had anything like that happen before, but it sounds familiar. Treat it like a glider. Any tail that it can lift, might help. Having to turn around because your kite just flew over your head, and you would rather it didn't do that, usually increases the pucker factor.

Kites that use the Magnus Effect, like Prism's Flip Kite, cause the line to oscillate. This might be cheating to get the effect, no?

You should hang onto the Nexus. Use it when you are showing someone else how to fly. Once you acquire more kites, the Quantum will be doing the teaching duties. Several people have already mentioned having several kites for different winds. Remember, if you get different versions of the same kite, I.E. Extra super ultralight, super ultralight, ultralight, light-standard, standard, vented, mid-vent, maxi-vent, and a bridled frame, for kite counting purposes, when audited by a significant other, this counts as one kite.

Howdy all. New to the forum. Great topic. The first kite I remember was a Burger King kite I got with a Kid's meal. Maybe the early 80's. Dad used an old sheet or pillowcase to make a tail. I must have flown the tail off the kite, because I remember needing more tail. I don't recall what happened to that kite. Fast forward to 1993, bought a Cheetah and a 5' delta conyne. They must have mated or something, because now I have kites everywhere.

Nice kite. They take up a lot of sky. I flew mine on 500# last weekend in variable winds(which in Kansas ranges from non-existent to "you better hold onto something"). The lowest that it would fly was around 5-6 MPH; the gustiest gust was 15-17. It lifted an 8 foot Orca, when the wind picked up. You'll want to get the 500# line because of the stretch it gives when the kite pulls in a gust. I doubt it will pull you off the ground, but I would fly it with an anchor. If you are flying at the beach, you'll want to use a good sand anchor. I wouldn't wind the kite back onto a hoop winder while it is flying, unless it is in the lightest of breezes the kite would fly in, it would create more tension on the stored line than I would like. I walk my big kites down. I store my line on extension cord reels; It takes minutes to wind up a couple hundred feet of line.