Fireliner
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Posts posted by Fireliner
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I have researched a German forum and found info about, and users of carbon arrows, for kite use.
Seems that a spine of 700 would correspond to skyshark P90.
I think arrows with spine in the 250-700 range would cover most needs (Quad), given their dimensions match. Seems many actually do. Weights are comparable too.
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I made crude spine testing rig and found my Crystal T2 rods to have spine at approximately 500 and Chrystal T3 a spine of 390. Gives me some indications.
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Green beauty with matching scissors
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Living in Norway and no suppliers of kite rods/spars. It is however possible to buy arrow-shafts wich seem to originate from the same producers.
But what to look for when trying to find suitable rods? Weight obviously, and stiffness and/or flex.
Arrow shafts seem to be categorized by "spine" Wich is a measurement of how much a rod bends for a central load.
From Easton website:
The spine rating of an arrow is simply a measurement of its stiffness. The same Easton arrow comes in a variety of stiffness: the lower the number, the stiffer the arrow. For example, a 330 arrow is stiffer than a 500 spine arrow. There are two kinds of spine (stick with us, we promise not to get too technical). There’s static spine, which is how an arrow reacts when an 880-gram (1.94 lbs.) weight is suspended from the center of the arrow. The arrow must be 29” in length and supported by two points, which are 28” apart. The number of inches the arrow deflects or bends X 1000 due to the weight is the spine size or measurement of an arrow. So, a 500 arrow bends .5-inches when the weight is applied.
I suspect one might find equivalent arrowshafts to most of the commercially available "kite rods". Skysharks camo offerings seems to be a "arrowshaft"
Now i need to find the proper "spine" for my kite rod substitutes.
Anyone with knowledge wanting to share?
I have read that a spine of 500 corresponds to a skyshark p200, and spine of 300 corresponds to about p300.
I realize i need to build a spine measuring rig..
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4 minutes ago, midibot said:
Wow! That was an exhilarating watch from the comfort of my couch.
Well done.
(I had to look up and refresh my memory about Nordic skates. I guess it might be a little trickier on my old hockey skates, eh? 😉 )
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I would think you would be fine on hockey skates on ice of relatively good quality, the Nordics would be better on more uneven ice and possibly faster due to longer and flatter "steel".
For proper icesailing tall 15-20cm skates with alpine skiboots seems preferred by the pros.
I consider myself an happy amateur, and use what I'm most used to.
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honestly i do not really know what the material in the clear panels are but i suspect it is some vinyl as it is not(to my eyes) a laminate. Most of the light coloured parts and also the clear parts of the wing is made out of parts from a older windsurfing sail "Hood Trilaminar kevlar". Black and fluorgreen wingtips is from an old traction kite.
It's all about the project and of course the sailing fun.
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Hi Michael. I have added some stiffness although not very much(roll wrapped some more fibreglass to masts) to the frame since the video was taken. I am still waiting for steady 10ms+(22mph+) winds, and of course the perfect ice (long stretch) that never shows up the same time as the wind.🤔 I still have som trimming options to explore with mast angle vs boom and sail tension. One of the benefits of low amounts of lift is the fact that I am able to force the sail into a more upright position(catching more wind). With apparent windspeed at speed i am still able to have enough lift to angle the skates(lean into the wind) This is hopefully only the first of several builds but time is limited so i think this would be the 2022 model. However I am still thinking of ways to improve and not afraid to modify, but would like to test in optimal conditions.
I don't think weight would matter all that much speedwise but it would of course make the wing easier to manhandle trough tacks and gybes.
Carbon would be stiffer and I think the wing could benefit from that, but at some point it would be so stiff that it would be gnarly in the gusts.
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Due to really good ice conditions this winter I have been busy with a fun project. Having tried using wing(inflatable handheld traction device mostly used for foiling as in wingfoiling) as a propulsion device when ice skating, I could not let the thought that the thick leading edge of the inflatable wings were the limiting factor in top speed.
So i buried myself in the shed and started building my own version. As usual no real plans to follow but somewhat inspired by kitewings ridgid frame wings.
A week of late nights later and the wing was ready.
About 3m2 sail area.
Limited testing possibilities so far but the slim leading edge has a real advantage over the commercial inflatable wings when it comes to top speed but of course at a price of lower amounts of lift. However i like the fact that I could outrun wings with almost double the sail area when it comes to top speed.
Some action up to around 50kmh 6ms windspeed gusting to 12. Soft slushy ice surface with pools of water on top. Nordic skates.
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In flight:
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Very easy add on for kites like OSKUSA that have holes in stead of mesh as LE Venting.
Lights are 19 grammes a piece and very inexpensive.
Mounted:
In action:
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Ready for test flight. Traditional endcaps with shockcord on LE. Need some daylight, none after work..
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With my limited skills i could agree that skills would matter most.
I am still hopeful that I would be able to extend my lower end capability with approximately 90+grammes shaved of my first build. The biggest advantage of lighter weight rods would be increased flex in low wind conditions? with weight savings as a nice bonus?
Of course, i like the feel of my vented kite over the full sail but sometimes the wind is too weak for me to keep both my heavy diy full sail and my vented freilein aloft.(without running) Being grounded is no fun😉
Lightest/flexiest spars i have are the freilein Chrystal T2. Also have T3 and skyshark p2x and p4x(travel length-40cm sections)
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Did a basted bottom seam folded two times. Weight of kite with bridle currently at 189 grammes(Chrystal T2 spars) kite incl bridle w.o. Spars at 114 g including approx 10-15cm excess 3mm shock cord. Need to add knot cover for bungee at lower corners. Still contemplating the non bungee LE end caps.
Would need to get some lighter weight(softer) spars. P90? Px1?
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Started construction of new kite. Have been using lighter material icarex and also used rip stop in the leading edge with Dacron reinforcements. The overlap between sail halves and trailing edge i am going to try just using 3M vhb tape and ironing except some seams in the higher stress parts. Thinking about not using shock cord for LE End caps (like Los Hermanos detox), t- connector. And lighter weight bridle line.
I have not yet started the lower spar connection points(bungee/shock cord) Last time i used Dacron reinforcement triangles with PE "washers" and 3mm shockcord and a lighter fabric cover over the knots. It works but is quite bulky and heavy?
Shock cord is available in smaller sizes but are they (2,5 mm Prym) strong enough?
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Exploring the dark with lights.
For the wind noise fans 😉 (different angle on the red lights):
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13 minutes ago, leen said:
Here is the clear kind. It only costs €4,50 a liter. No, the reason is that something of silicone remains in the yarn and of paraffin not, because it evaporates completely. So you can impregnate the yarn with paraffin, because it evaporates anyway. Both prevent glue build-up on the needle, only paraffin evaporates completely. But to be honnest, I doubt silicone has any adverse effect on yarn or kite fabric. Anyway, when i started tu use these coated needles and the Prym tape, there is no need for using them at all.
Seems like some kind of clean (odorless) paraffin. I can understand the not needing to use this if the Prym tape is better than the 3M tape.
Thank you for sharing.
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Thinking about the parafin vs silicone, is it because that we want/expect the thread to stick(more stable seam) better after evaporation of parafin that is the theory here? (Curious)
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39 minutes ago, leen said:
This can well be. I am only sharing my experience and not criticize other products. The result can be different due age of the tape, themperature, condition of the needle ect. My only advice is; stick to what best works for you. Just one word of advice though, when you edit the sewing thread, it is better to do this with paraffin than with silicone. Paraffin also repels glue, but evaporates after a few minutes, while silicone remains permanently on the yarn.
Age of tape might be impacting results, but it is also extremely thin(no carrier) compared to the other basting tapes i have tested. I would look for the Prym tape when shopping for nonstick needles.
Thank you for the tip about paraffin. Although paraffin in my world has very many forms. What quality specifically are you using?
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I tested sewing (80 cm triple zigzag) with the 3M vhb 9460pc transfer tape and I had absolutely no buildup of glue on the needle. Seems that we have different experience with this product.
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17 minutes ago, leen said:
Yes, i have, but i like this product better because it is a little less sticky for the needle.
Ok, good to know. Maybe the 3m is better for "no sewing" as described in the article.
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Tested the kite in too much wind today. 5-6m/s gusting to 9-10m/s (ca10-gusting to20mph) behaved very well in the lulls at guestimated 7-8mph. Felt much more stable but overpowered on 30ft lines. This time I also used stiffer LE (6 sections of skyshark p2x(camo) even though I think I could have been on p4x in the gusts
I think I would test some more but I feel I am on the right track with correcting LE venting and correction of the ballooning sail.
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5 minutes ago, leen said:
This tape is the best i could found.
Have you tried the 3m transfer tape?
3m vhb 9460pc
It is referred to in the "kite building with adhesive" article by Dick Curran.
Arrowshafts spine deflection vs Kite rods
in Quad Heads
Posted