SkyHook

HAPPY BIRTHDAY PETE !!!!!!! AND MANY MORE. Bruce

Brett, I hope somebody showed up today. You might contact ( Wyatt) MercFlyer on the Rev forum for Sunday or future meet as he is in Yachats. Hope to see you in Lincoln City one of these days. Bruce

Welcome to the forum Staffspinner ! Which beach are you going to Saturday? Did you attend the Kite Festival at Lincoln City this past weekend? Be sure and sign up for the Rev forum at http://www.revkites.com/forum. Lot of good information there. Bruce

JB Happy 36th birthday today I hope you had a good day in Santa Cruz. I haven't been there in about 40 years. If I have my calculations correct, you have been flying kites for 21 years already. Time does FLY We can steer it but we don't have much control over it's speed. Enjoy the rest of your trip home. Bruce

You guys are really going to beat me into this, aren't you? Absolutely. But it's getting pretty bad when your own smiley turns on you and changes his sign to a personal nagging reminder. You just can't trust anyone any more. Bruce

So, back to lines & sleeving & measuring & knots & such !! and you do have something to add

Thanks for posting that video Chris. My first Lincoln City festival was 1993 but that video brought back a lot of memories. I remember those large spinsocks very well. Catch the Wind had a crew that put those up all the time. That large SLK with the red roses on it looks like Deb's kite. Used to see a lot of dual line stacks like that back in the 90's One guy used to fly his stack way up high above all the other sky laundry. Bruce

Darkspark, Thanks - I didn't know that piece had bearings too!! That means smooth operation with very close to no line friction at all using that dog stake. As Pete said, Very nice design. The safety equipment might be a good idea when I try the dogstake concept again. And make sure no one else is around. Pete, Yes, I tried the dogstake on way too short lines years ago. No way I was going to succeed. An Hawaiian Team kite on a Dog Stake sounds scary. I know the pull and speed of those kites and I can just picture that monster coming straight at me. You were smart putting the stakes down to keep yourself out of the way. When I try it again, it will be with a Rev again and a 200 ft set of quad lines sounds good to me. I do need to figure out an easy way to separate the lines at the stake to reduce line friction and binding. Bruce

That is the most sophisticated and beautiful dog stake set up I have ever seen. Is that all brass? Great video and fantastic flying. So, what is the secret to dogstake flying since you are looking at the back of the kite? Do you have to put your right handle in your left hand, etc or just retrain the brain with a lot of practice? I tried it just once with a regular dog stake and short lines and accomplished nothing but a lot of crash and burn. Bruce

You don't really need a commercially-made sleeving needle. Any fine wire, bent into a long narrow loop will work. I strip a length of #22 to #26 gauge copper wire from a bit of telephone or computer-network cable when I'm not near my regular set of kite tools. It doesn't really have to be as stiff as the steel music wire usually made into sleeving needles. Hey Pete, Thanks for the tip. I have some telephone wire and probably network cable too. I will give that a shot next time I sleeve some line. I knew there was a reason I should have kept that guitar. For the strings. Bruce

Nick, I certainly understand the confusion since I wrote it wrong. Should be 80 feet 10 inches I added 10 inches to the target line length of 80 foot to be used up in half the loop and 4 knots on one 17 inch piece of sleeving only. I didn't have to add any more line for the sleeving at the other end. That sleeving was already on the other end of the line looped and all knots done. I was measuring the total length of the line with the first completed loop on the nail. Bruce Hey Bruce, No problem, I understood the mechanics of what you were saying perfectly (one loop was already completed, etc), it was just the 90" part, that I suspected was a typo ! Thanks for correcting that. My brain takes a vacation, every once in a while, also Your procedure, even though you go about it a bit differently than I do, seems very similar, and yields very similar results. Bottom line, we are both adding the same number of knots to the sleeving, but it appears that I am allowing for an additional 3" of raw line, in my procedure. As I understand your procedure (regardless of the predetermined length), you are adding to that predetermined length, one length of sleeving (17"), plus 3" for the knots (overall), whereas, in my procedure, I am adding one length of sleeving, plus 6" for the knots (overall). However, as you actually perform your procedure, you are adding only half of that (sleeving + 3") amount, to the second end, because you have already made the first loop, correct ? In my case, I am cutting the full length of raw line, prior to making either loop, hence, I add the entire length of sleeving, plus my extra for the knots, to the predetermined length. Our differences on the amount to leave for the knots, is probably due to the sleeving itself. My sleeving may be a bit fatter, than what you are using, but still, we are talking about only a 3" difference, overall, which when doubled into the loops, cuts that difference in half. I'd say we are pretty much together on this thing............. I find it very interesting, to compare the different ways, that we each go about measuring and putting together these sets of lines. Everyone has their own personal procedure, which is somewhat unique to the individual, yet most all of us, yield basically, the same results. That was the whole point of this topic, to get individuals to put into writing, their processes & procedures. Again, I thank you for joining in......... I would have given anything, to have all this information, the first time I attempted to make a set of lines............. Nick, What I posted on making the lines was out of memory as it has been a few months since I put together the last set of lines. I believe I have the numbers correct but I don't think I measured that set of completed lines to see how close they were to target length . And yes, the sleeving I used on that set was very small. A couple of things I neglected to write on the original post. 1. My sleeving tool snapped so I am down to threading a needle with line. I work the needle through the sleeving backwards. The pointed tip of the needle tends to sneak out of the sleeving if you try to pull it through tip first. 2. I do use a black marker for bottom line identification marking at least part if not all of the sleeving loop on both ends of two lines. I haven't used any color coding to identify right from left as of yet but probably will apply some red to one handle from each handle set in the future. Thanks for starting this topic. Hopefully, a few more people will add something. I hear some people do not use sleeving at all on their lines without issues. I remember reading something somewhere about how easy it is to adjust the line length the way some people knot it. Like to hear more about that. Bruce

Nick, I certainly understand the confusion since I wrote it wrong. Should be 80 feet 10 inches I added 10 inches to the target line length of 80 foot to be used up in half the loop and 4 knots on one 17 inch piece of sleeving only. I didn't have to add any more line for the sleeving at the other end. That sleeving was already on the other end of the line looped and all knots done. I was measuring the total length of the line with the first completed loop on the nail. Bruce

Wayne, I am real glad you got the knot out of that line. I heard there is an ultrasonic dog repeller whistle out there that is supposed to work up to 300 yards. Maybe you should get one. I am going to put my 2 cents in on lines and sleeving before this topic dies. SLEEVING - My preference is to cut off a piece of sleeving that is long enough to have a finished open loop at the end of my lines which is about 6 inches long That does not include the knotted area. WHY??? Years ago, I wanted to make myself a set of lines. Really didn't have any sleeving but I found something around the house I could use. It was a larger diameter and I had a limited supply. I used it. It worked fine except I ended up with very short loops. Well, I cussed myself every time I used that line because there was barely enough loop to fold over to attach to the bridle of the kite and I struggled with it.. I will never do that again. It's obvious but the thicker or larger diameter the sleeving , the larger the knots are and you will need a longer sleeve. MAKING THE LINES – Assuming quad lines and using real small diameter sleeving , I cut 8 pieces of sleeving at 17 inches long which should leave me approximately 6 inch finished open loops. Don't quote me on this!! I start by stringing on one piece of sleeving before I measure any lines out. I leave a very small amount of line sticking out the sleeving and burn it. I then tie a knot in the end of the sleeving (1/8 to ¼ inch from the end . I stretch the sleeving out and tie another knot in the other end of the sleeving. Then I tie two overhand knots in the doubled sleeving pushing the knots down close to the first knots. I cut a 1 foot piece off of a 2X2 piece of wood. I hammered 4 nails in the center of it on one surface about an inch apart. I attach the 2X2 to my bench in my garage. I attach my first loop to a nail on the 2X2. I have a 100 ft tape measure that I attach to another nail on the 2X2. With line and tape measure , I head out the door of the garage and out the driveway. Sound familiar? Assuming a target of 80 ft of line, I am going to add 10 inches to the length of line.( half of one length of sleeving plus 1.5 inches). So, I measure out 80 foot 10 inches of line, stretch it some, mark it, and cut it. The next line I do the same way except I use the first line length as a guide instead of the measuring tape. When all lines are measured , I put on the other four pieces of sleeving out in the driveway. When all lines are done, I attach all four lines to the four nails in the garage. I run a long screwdriver through all four loops at the other end and pull to stretch all at the same time. It becomes obvious which lines are longer by the difference in sag when you release the line tension. Then I make some adjustments. One good thing about starting out with a long open loop is you can just add an additional knot if one line is a little longer than the rest. Bruce

Vg'f nyy Crgr'f snhyg V nz fvggvat urer gelvat gb svther bhg guvf qnea pbqr . Maybe looking at with a mirror would help figure it out. Bruce