makatakam

An optimist, pessimist and realist all rolled into one?

To fly in all winds comfortably, including zero and gale-force, you need a minimum of three up to a maximum of seven. The actual number you will want is determined by your comfort level and your skill level. Some people don't want to move around very much (zero-wind), and/or fight the wind just to stay on their feet (gale-force). Advanced pilots can control their kites above and below the wind ranges recommended by the manufacturer, so there is a great deal of overlap in ranges for each type of kite. In addition, there are specialty kites for specific situations like indoor flying, and different frames that can drastically change the kite's range. Click on this if the chart below doesn't look right. Wind Speed kph 0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 mph 0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 |-------Zero-wind-------| |-------------Ultra-Light--------------| |----------------Standard-sail----------------| |------------------------Mid-vent-----------------------------| |-----------------------------Full-vent---------------------------------------| |------------------------------------------Extra-vent------------------------------------------------------| |----------------------------------------------All-vent------------------------------>? Please understand that this is a VERY ROUGH approximation of what is possible, and definitely NOT what is RECOMMENDED by the manufacturer! "All-vent" kites are not commercially manufactured. As you can see, there is much overlap in wind ranges, so depending on your local prevailing wind conditions, you can get by with a minimum of 3 kites and be able to fly 90% of the time. Which 3 you choose will depend on your local winds, your flying style and level of expertise. Edit: Just realized that this chart may not translate well depending on device and/or screen resolution, so I am adding a .png file above for those who need it.

It will be lots of fun. Ask questions, then ask a few more. Try some other people's kites. Have fun, smile, and don't forget to breathe.

If price is a consideration, I would go with with the NYM, although I would like to have more color and pattern choices. I think they handle nearly as smooth as a Polo, and from the wind ranges you mentioned will fit very nicely into that niche. Then you have the Shook weave -- Oh, Yeeeeaaahhhhhh. Sticker shock and the bit of a wait to get aside, you can't beat it, and quite durable from what I've heard. Wait for Paul LeMasters to chime in on this question, as his opinion is worth hearing. I think he has worn out more kites than JB has.

I watched all 3 of the videos using the links you posted and saw that they were in chronological order. I noticed dramatic improvement from the first to the third. That only happens when you put a great teacher and great students together! Congratulations to everyone.

And Miss Terry replied . . . . . . . . . ?

Look for a large, open area with grass that's mowed regularly, County forest preserves, State Parks, etc. I use Google Maps a lot to check out new locations. After a while you can spot mowed areas from a mile up. Try for a field with a minimum amount of trees or buildings surrounding it. Hartwood Acres Amphitheatre up around Dorseyville looks decent to me. Damn, you guys got a lot of hills there! That's about the only spot that looks good to me.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Just PM your address so I can send you the line. I already cut it! Don't make me come down there and deliver it personally. Wait, on second thought........eh, never mind, too far to walk. Seriously, what's first class postage, 43 cents? Ok, you owe me half a Coke. I have the opportunity to post it tomorrow, so if you can get the address to me today, I'll post it in the a.m.

I'm getting a set of 11" made. Will let you know how they feel once I get a chance to use them. I have at least two kites, both home-made that they will probably work very well with, but I also plan on trying them with 1, 1.5, and 2 Rev sizes. We'll see.

Be vewy, vewy cawreful, Nick. He knows how to fly a dual too, and he'll twist your arm into doing that too, if you let him. Be vewy, vewy cawreful. (in other words, if you want to know, just ask)

Congratulations, Marcus!

Nick, look closely at the second picture. Look at the bridle set-up. You can stack top to bottom also, but that involves more frame modification than side by side. So, it's basically flying as a single sail? What is the attachment point on the frame ends? The attachment on the frame ends is the original bridle on each kite. You just need a way to fix the endcaps in the middle to each other and the ferrule, so the sail is still being stretched. There's nothing ready-made for this, so it has to be rigged in whatever way you can.

Hey Mark, That's definitely all new to me, but I'm always interested in seeing new techniques, not that I would want to do it, but still interesting ! I can see the bridle set-up in the second picture (somewhat), but still not exactly clear on how things are set up. So am I seeing correctly - the top right flight line, controls the entire top, of the right kite. The bottom right flight line, controls the entire bottom, of the right kite - same set-up on the left flight lines? Yep, that's it. Takes about 80 feet of bridle line shaped like 4 vees, all exactly the same, each attached to the bottom connection points on each kite to itself, and the same with the tops, with the four new line connection point loops to the outside of each vee to keep the kite from getting really "squirrely". How much? Don't know, would probably have to adjust in the field, but should be relatively simple since it's only four knots to untie and re-tie. Or you could just create a few for different conditions. A ferrule of some kind to connect the leading edges, that won't slide to either side, and a do-hickey to attach one kite's left bungee to the other's right bungee, something to hold the two endcaps to the ferrule and you're good to go. Might be fun to try with a couple of Rev II's.

PM your address to me. I just bought 100 yards this past winter for projects on which I am working. It's red, but the price is right. I'll mail you some, no charge. Make the leaders, you'll like them. Edit: Just cut and weighed 20 feet for you, a whole 1/4 ounce. I'll cover postage if you try to get a newbie started/hooked, at least one per year. Deal?

Nick, look closely at the second picture. Look at the bridle set-up. You can stack top to bottom also, but that involves more frame modification than side by side.

Adding brake will quiet it down, except at top speed. It slows the average speed down a bit. Also, putting a tad more tension on the bungees at the ends of the leading edge will help. This will bow the leading edge more, which in turn keeps the vee below the logo tighter. Less flutter, less noise. Although I must admit, it's a lot more fun doing a dive stop over someone's head when it's really loud.

Sweet!

If both top lines have stretched equally, use the tops as bottoms for a while, and the bottoms will stretch to the same length as the tops. If you shorten the tops and the bottoms begin to stretch, as they surely will eventually, then you have merely created extra work. You can adjust any and all lengths to be "equal" by using the knots on your handle leaders, although you should get that one that ends up longer than the others (usually the top right if you are right-handed), shortened to match the others. As long as both bottoms are equal in length to each other, and both tops are equal in length to each other, you'll be fine.

By way of Chicago, per chance?

Sorry, rant all you want, we understand. We have all been there. We have all felt the same way. We are all still learning, just as you are. Our experience is here, free for the asking. With all the different dual-line delta designs that are available, it is improbable that anyone here started out on that particular kite. Some may have flown it on occasion, if they were lucky enough to meet someone who has one. You are a teacher, and in this case also a student. As a teacher, I'm sure that you understand what I mean when I say that you wouldn't give your students an assignment and then deny them the tools necessary to accomplish that task. We are only trying to provide those tools. Any kite will perform fairly well in the hands of someone who is a master flyer. Some kites, by design, perform better than others, and are more capable of that task even in the hands of a beginner. Although I am more interested in quad-line flying, I did start out exactly as you are, low on funding for what piqued my interest. First an HQ Symphony foil which was tons of fun ($40), then a New Tech Kites (NTK) Diode ($60) as my first stunt dual, once I had been flying the foil for a couple of months. Was thrilled, thoroughly! Then I got tired of just zipping around the sky and hanging around the edges of the wind window. I had to try what I saw in the videos, and the kite fought me every inch of the way, because I had the wrong tool for the task I wanted to learn. For the sake of brevity, all I will say is that I spent much more than what I had originally intended within a year. Please don't take any of this as Gospel. Flying kites is fun and we're only trying to make it as much fun as possible for you. The level of expertise you achieve, or want to achieve, will vary drastically from that of everyone else on this forum. Many are completely satisfied with only basic control, and have no desire to engage in competition. Others are not. Whatever your purpose, have fun doing it. Whatever you choose to fly, I sincerely hope brings you much satisfaction. Flying your kite is 1000% better than not flying a kite. Smile, and don't forget to breathe. By the way, where do you live? Perhaps someone here can join you in your endeavors.

The guys don't mean wrinkles in the cloth, more like visible tension lines. You'll know what they're talking about if you just pull the bottom tip(s) of the sail when the kite is fully assembled. You don't want "stretch marks" showing. If you have a little vertical lines, you can tighten the leading edge bungees at both ends just enough to take them out. You don't want to put too much tension on the sail, because that will permanently deform the cloth.

Yes to everything they said. Plus one thing. Avoid the super cheap kites and anything under 7 feet, tip to tip. You won't be able to properly stall a cheap kite to land it because they are not designed for anything more than going fast and crashing. Save up a bit more than you had intended to spend and get something you can "grow into", as opposed to something you'll "grow out of" in a hurry. It'll cost you 30% more in the long run when you have to replace it once your skill level is beyond what you purchased.

Sorry, I won't be there. Hahahahahahahaha.

For those who are just starting out, not much. If you can actually feel any difference you've advanced beyond total newbie. If not, don't sweat it, it'll happen soon enough. If you fly once or twice a week, you'll get it by the end of this year. The more you fly, the sooner it will come. Depends on the kite and the wind. Longer handles give the kite a leverage advantage over your hands, which means you'll tire faster, but allow increased inputs. Some kites, especially those with a higher aspect ratio (Google it) prefer smaller inputs. Once you and any given kite "connect" with each other, note the conditions: kite, wind, handles, lines, etc. You will begin to acquire an intuitive knowledge of what will work best in any situation, and putting together the right combo will become instinctive. Thirteen-inch handles are what most people use most of the time, for good reason. In most conditions that's what works best, and most folks don't have 10 sets of handles. As a beginner, if you keep switching handle lengths, it will make it more difficult to acquire a good feel for the feedback the kite is giving you. You want to build muscle memory as soon and as consistently as possible. Until you can make the kite do anything you want without "thinking" and can feel the subtle changes in wind and sail, stick with 13" and you'll do well.

Wish I could join you. Maybe next year. Docking is so cool. You'll be joining in soon enough, Nick -- have fun and don't forget to breathe.