Phil in Ottawa

Thanks Edmond. Toronto area is a bit far unfortunately. And thanks for the correction on the date for the festival. I'm now seeing it on the 14th although one website still shows it on the 21st. How confusing.

Thanks everyone. Great advice. Especially the part about having fun. I did check the line lengths before my first attempt and they appeared very even. But I will check them again the next time out to make sure there has been no significant changer. Better safe than sorry. And I have watched many videos at length. But I continue to do so and I learn something new every time. So good advice there for sure. And I hope there will be other Rev flyers at the kite day on the 21st. Would be nice to meet others to learn from.

I finally got my new quad-line kite! I purchased a Revolution Reflex 1.5 RX. And I'm proud to say it's the special "PG" model named after me! But that's a story for another post. What I did want to talk about was my first experience flying the kite. I have to admit it's a lot tougher than it looks in the videos done by the experts. In my defence I have to say that the wind was not the best. It was gusty and would come and go quite quickly which made keeping the kite in the air a real challenge. And when I did have it in the air, I found I was falling victim to over-control as I had seen talked about so often in instructional videos. I would turn too much and go into a spin and then panic and over-compensate and crash. The other thing that didn't help is that I was always mixing up my right and left. You'd think it would be easy to remember. Push right thumb to go right, left thumb to go left. But in reality it wasn't so easy for me. I also think I was not returning my hands to neutral quickly enough. I would start a turn and not pull back on my handle fast enough (and hence starting the spins I talked about above). I'll have to get used to doing the smaller, quicker moves on the handles. And keeping my hands even (i.e., not pulling back on one or the other handle so much). I think more constant wind will help with that. All that being said though, I can't wait to go back out, in better wind hopefully this time, and try again. I really wish I had an experienced flyer I could join and learn the ropes from. But unfortunately I don't know anyone in the Ottawa area who flies a Rev. So, if you fly a Rev in the Ottawa area and you are reading this, please reply and let's see if we can get together. I saw an ad for a kite flying festival in town in a couple of weeks where I'm hoping I may run into other Rev flyers. Wish me luck. Thanks, Phil

Thanks again for all the replies.

Thanks for the responses. I'd really like to attend a kite festival but unfortunately there are none that I can find in my area. The closest is a good 4-5 hour drive away. As far as which kite to buy, there's a kite shop in Canada where I can get a 1.5 SLE that comes with a 3 wrap UL frame and a bonus 4 wrap LE frame. The kit also upgrades the linesets to Shanti Warp Speed line. Does that sound like a good beginner kit? Someone here answered me in a PM and said that having multiple frames is good because it allows you to try and better match the wind conditions. So I think getting two frames for the price of one would be a good thing. And as an aside, I think UL means "Ultra Light". But what does LE mean when talking about frames? What about SLE (as in 1.5 SLE)? Thanks again.

Hello all, Last year I purchased a two-line kite (Skydog Freebird) and I've really enjoyed flying it. But here in Ottawa, I'm finding that the wind can be quite a headache. Either there is too little wind or it's too gusty or it's just plain too strong for my kite. As you can imagine, this does not make for ideal conditions nor does it offer a lot of learning/practice time. The other problem I'm having is that I have yet to find a local kite-flying community I can participate in to learn from and improve my skills. I'm finding trying to learn even basic tricks from videos quite difficult (especially when combined with less than optimum wind conditions). So I've been doing some reading and I'm wondering if perhaps a quad-line Revolution kite might be a better option for me than a two-line kite. It appears that they work better in varying wind conditions (including low wind) which is what I need. Would you agree? So, if a Revolution would be better suited for a beginner (considering Ottawa wind conditions), my next question is which one to buy? I see EXP, 1.5, 1.5RX, B-Series, Reflex XX, Reflex RX. It's hard for me to decipher the differences between them just from reading specs. I've read various opinions. Some say the EXP does everything the others do at a lower price, so they are a good choice for a beginner. Others say the more expensive models are the way to go right off the bat because a beginner will quickly want to upgrade. So I'm confused. What's your opinion? Should I go the quad route and which one should I get if I do? Thanks for your help, Phil

Great shop, but unfortunately probably won't be of much help to the OP. It is in Vancouver, WA, USA, not Canada. There's got to be kite shops with replacement parts in Canada though. Hopefully you find one should you need it. Out of curiosity, I looked up the Skydog Freebird and happened to see specs at the first link I clicked. It says, 6mm carbon, which I believe usually means pultruded tubes. SkyShark are wrapped carbon tubes - excellent tubes, but often more expensive and may not be "right" in your case. I think it's a good idea to replace with the same sticks as the original, unless you are intentionally experimenting for a reason. Weight, stiffness, etc. can all matter in a kite. Thanks for the advice about the SkyShark tubes. The ones I bought are pultruded tubes so they match the original ones that came with the Freebird. Thanks for the links. I purchased a line set from the second one you mention, Great Canadian Kite Company. I've been in touch with them about the carbon tubes and they do carry them. So I'll probably be purchasing from them in the future.

Thanks for the replies everyone. As I thought, breakage appears to come with the territory. So I'll have to get used to it for now and hopefully become a better flyer fast to minimize how much I have to spend on replacement parts. I did order multiple sticks (5 of them) so I have a few left. If I'm careful and try to fly in relatively lighter wind conditions, I might be able to make those last for a while. And when I do need more tubes, I'll see if I can find Sky Shark for sale in Canada. I might also start scanning the used articles for sale sites for kites to see if I can pick up one or two for cheap. Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

Hi all, I've had my first dual-line kite (Skydog Freebird) out maybe 6-8 times now and already I've broken three lower spreader spars. Is this normal? Am I just very unlucky? Is it the kite, the location (hard ground vs soft beach sand), the wind conditions I'm flying in, the inexperienced operator? I'm asking because at this rate, this kite flying thing is going to be a very expensive hobby. I've already spent more on replacement carbon fiber tubes than I did on the entire kite. The reason for that is that I did not know what to purchase so I contacted Skydog and I got a nice reply from Phil Broder. So I decided to purchase from him since he was very helpful. But he's in the US and I'm in Canada so there was the whole exchange thing (which right now is not very good for us Canucks). But that was expected and would have been fine with me. That was until I found out I also had to pay import duties on the tubes. Who knew? That almost doubled the price of the tubes! Yikes! Lesson learned I guess. From now on, buy the carbon tubes from a Canadian supplier. But even then, carbon tubes are not cheap if you break two in one session like I did today. Also, in your opinion, are some carbon fiber tubes better and/or stronger than others? Is there a type or brand you would recommend? Anyway, I'd love to hear your stories about breaking spars and whether or not I can expect to keep replacing them on a regular basis for the foreseeable future or not. Thanks, Phil

Thanks hyzakite. I'd seen the phrase used in the kiting context for the first time in another post a few days ago and decided to use it here. More as a joke than for any other reason really. As a beginner flyer, I walk to my crashed kite a lot. I look at it as a time to reflect on what I may have done wrong to cause the crash and how I can stop doing whatever it was. And you're right that I will get better and the walks will get fewer and fewer with time. They are already getting less frequent. So no real shame involved. It's all good.

No, there are no ferrules. I contacted Skydog and got a reply from Phil Broder from Fly Market Kitemaking Supplies. I can get my tubes from him. So I'm good to go. Thanks again for your help everyone.

The kite is a Skydog Freebird. Their website does not seem to mention anything about replacement parts. I'll contact them to find out if they do sell them. But in the event that Skydog does not sell replacement parts, I'll have to purchase from a third party dealer. Looking at North American dealers, I haven't yet found one that carries metric-sized tubing. If you know of one, please let me know. From the research I did, .230" is a common size. That equates to 5.842mm. I am wondering if the 0.158mm (.006") difference between .230" and 6mm is going to have a noticeable impact on the kite. I guess the way to know will be to try it. But hopefully Skydog sells replacements and all this will be a moot point. Thanks for your help everyone.

Thanks for the great advice everyone.

When my kite crashes, it often ends up face down with the nose facing me. When it's like that, I can't seem to find a way to recover it to a position from where I can launch it again. No matter how I tug on the lines, it won't flip on it's back and I have to do the walk of shame to right it. Is there a way to right a kite lying on its face like that? Thanks for your help.

I broke a lower spreader spar today. For someone in North America, where is the best online place to buy replacement carbon tubing? Should I replace both bottom spreaders to make sure they are the same weight? Or is most carbon tubing about the same weight so I can just replace the one side? Also, is .230 inch the equivalent size I should purchase to replace 6mm tubes if they don't list the metric size? Anything else I should know about buying carbon tubing? Thanks for your help.

When they say a kite is rated for a specific wind speed range (e.g., 5-32 kph), what is the maximum wind speed rating based on? Is it the design of the kite, the size of the kite, the materials the kite is made out of, the strength and/or the length of the line it's being flown with? Would going to a stronger weight line (e.g., up to 150lb from 100lb) increase the upper wind speed limit? Or are you stuck with the maximum speed because of the specific kite you have regardless of the line? Thanks, Phil

Thanks again for the responses. I think I'll go with my original thought and get the 100lb, 85ft Skybond set.

Thanks Rob. Good information. In your opinion, would going from 65ft to 100ft be a hard transition for a beginner?

Hi hyzakite, Thanks for the reply. I'm trying to understand your post correctly Are you saying Shanti is a better company to deal with because they not only make a good product, but they are also a known company you can actually contact and communicate with? I did a bit of searching and found that Shanti is a company with a website and they appear easy to contact. On the other hand, I found a lot of websites that talk about and/or sell LPG but I was unable to find out who actually makes it. Maybe I'm not searching properly. Does anyone know who the LPG manufacturer is? But in the end I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make to me. All I'm really interested in is buying a good product. Both Shanti and LPG seem to get good reviews and many people use the lines and recommend them. As a newcomer to the sport, I'm certain either would suit me just fine. I don't know that being able to communicate with the manufacturer would add anything to my enjoyment of the kite. But who knows? It might come in handy someday. So it may be a plus. In the end, I think I'll go with what is the easiest for me to find and purchase in Canada in the weight and length I'm looking for. So far I've found: - LPG 90lb, 100ft, with straps for $40 from www.kiteguys.ca - Shanti Speed, 90lb, 75ft, no straps for $40 from www.canadiankitecompany.com - Shanti Skybond, 100lb, 85ft, no straps for $44 from www.canadiankitecompany.com Right now I'm leaning towards the Skybond. It's a little stronger than the other two and I figure that can't be a bad thing. I also think it's a good length for me. I'm currently using 65ft and I find those a bit short. Going to 75ft doesn't seem like that big an increase but in my mind 100ft is a pretty big jump up. So 85ft seems about right. I'd love to hear your thoughts on my reasoning. I'd also be interested in finding out people's experience with either of the kite shops I mentioned if you have dealt with them. Thanks for all the help everyone.

Hi Deadheadkeg, I also just purchased a Freebird and I've also had it out just the one time so far. Like you, I'm a newbie in the dual line stunt kite world. Heck, I'm a newbie to kites period, so you appear to have an advantage over me already owning a parafoil. I had a good time when I took the kite out and I'm really looking forward to the next time. The wind is good today so I may go out a little later. I'm also studying the Dodd videos and every other tutorial I can lay my hands on. At this point it all seems pretty daunting but I'm sure that in time it will all become second nature. Good luck with it all and maybe we can keep reporting on our progress to compare.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Searching for reviews on various brands of lines, I've read about Shanti and Laser Pro Gold. Both seem to get good ratings and seem pretty interchangeable to me. But I've seen some places that sell a coated line set called Skybond "Polymer-Bonded Competition Line" from Shanti. I can get the Laser Pro Gold 90#, 100ft for $40. The Skybond is 100#, 85ft for $44. Both come on a winder. The LPG comes with straps, I'm not sure the Skybond does. If anyone knows if straps are included, let me know. How hard is it to remove/install handles from one set to another? Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks again.

How do you determine what line weight to buy? I tried searching but did not really find an answer. My Skydog Freebird came with 65' 100lb Dyneema lines. I'd like to purchase a slightly longer line set (85' or maybe 100'). So, do I buy the same weight? Or do I go lighter because the lines are longer? Or do I go stronger? Is it based on line length or size of kite or wind strength? Combination of all those? Thanks for your help.

Hello everyone, I'm a brand new dual line stunt kite flyer (and I mean less than a week new). First, am I using the right term to describe my kite? I've seen them called stunt kites, sports kites, delta kites, trick kites, etc. What is the normally accepted term? My kite is a 74" Skydog Freebird. I've had it out twice since I bought it less than a week ago. The first outing was a real bust. There was very little wind that day and I chose a less than optimal location where what wind there was was very inconsistent. I got the kite up in the air and crashed it but not much more. My second outing was much better initially. I found a great location about 10 minutes from my house. The wind was relatively steady at around 20-25 kph. I was able to launch the kite by myself and perform basic turns back and forth across the window. I did a few spins although I have to admit they were more by accident than by design. And of course, there were many crashes. Which brings me to the reason I said the outing was better "initially". With all those crashes, I quickly came to the realization that kites are not built like tanks and will suffer damage after a hard hit or ten. My first incident was when I realized that the spine had poked right through the bottom of sail. The Freebird is equipped with a breakaway Velcro flap intended to open up to allow the spine to release on a hard nose hit. Well, in my case, the flap did not open and the spine went right through it. Oh well, no big deal. I just moved the end of the spine to the other side of the flap, closed the flap and everything was fine. I figured this could easily be fixed so I didn't consider it a big problem. My second issue came when, after another crash, I noticed that the small bungee tie that holds the end of the sail to the leading edge had come off and was lost. You see, the Freebird has a two-piece leading edge that allows you to fold the kite down to a smaller size for storage. When you put the two pieces together, you then lock them together using the sail by stretching a small bungee loop attached to the end of the sail and inserting it in an arrow nock at the end of the leading edge. Obviously, the knot used to tie the bungee loop was not very tight and came loose sending the bungee flying. Again, this turned out to not be a deal breaker. I used the small piece of bungee cord that came on the line winder, made a new loop and used that on the kite. Problem solved and I was back in business. My third and last accident did end my flying day though. After a rather severe crash, I approached the kite to find one of the bottom cross spars had broken. I guess it did not release as it had in previous crashes. Just bad luck really. But I learned that 6mm carbon is not as strong as I thought. Needless to say I was not too happy with all the problems I experienced. The broken spar was probably my fault for crashing the kite at a relatively high rate of speed. But I considered the other two issues manufacturing defects. I contacted the shop where I bought the kite. They in turn contacted Skydog who agreed the store should replace the kite for me. So I'm happy with that and I will have a new kite later today. First thing I'm going to do is reinforce that breakaway flap somehow and also find a way to ensure the little bungee loops do not come loose again. And I'll try to learn not to crash so heavily so I don't break another spar. I'm actually going to ask the store if I can keep the good one from my current kite as a spare. We'll see what they say. So that's my story so far. Now onto my questions. 1. The Freebird comes with 65', 100lb Dyneema lines. From what I've read, those are shorter than the 80'-120' length normally recommended for kites. What effect do shorter lines have? Faster speeds? Less area available in which to fly the kite? More severe crashes? More difficulty flying and executing tricks? Would you recommend I purchase a longer set of lines? 2. When launching my kite, it would often climb to the point where it was directly above my head. It would then stall and start falling down without me being able to recover and get the kite flying again which was quite annoying. Obviously I'm doing something wrong, but what and how do I correct my mistake? 3. The same kind of stall problem occurred when I would fly the kite to the edge of the window. How can I get the kite to start flying again after it has stalled like that? Would taking a step back and pulling both lines down by my side (as in a launch) do it? Thanks a lot for your help. Happy to be part of the community and looking forward to getting familiar with my kite, learning how to do tricks and having many hours of fun.