Dead Launch

[Mike Eibey]

Is there anyone that can say they're proficient at the dead launch?

I'll admit to my best move being ground recoveries because I've done so many of them 🤣

I mean I'm alright when the kites in the air too. 😎

But I've only ever got one dead launch ever and have attempted atleast 100 for about 5 pops each. 

My success rate is very low. This is really the only ground recovery I cant do besides maybe the occasional ultra stuck multiple wrapped wing tangles.

[Zuul]

Some kites dead launch better than others.  Typically, strongly curved leading edges help, so if you are flying something recent it may be an uphill battle.  
 

I normally don’t even try because of the field I fly on.  No nice soft grass for me.

[Mike Eibey]

I usually only try a handle full of times but usually just give up.

But I did get it one time on my Hydra just the other day for the first time. Granted the ground had the slightest bump that allowed me to get a pinch more air in the sail.

Just wondering if anyone has a method of relaunching from this position that they find to work consistently.

[frob]

On 11/2/2020 at 8:30 PM, Mike Eibey said:

Just wondering if anyone has a method of relaunching from this position that they find to work consistently.

Apart from kites specifically designed around it, probably no. 

For examples, see this old thread. JB described some limited options in this old thread but they depend on specific conditions and have a risk of breaking a spar.

[RobB]

Generally a bad idea. It is just not good for the kite... That being said,

Curved LE kites will offer more success than a straight LE.

[Zuul]

Has there ever been a kite with a feature to improve dead launches?  I can imagine a roll-bar-like feature that bows forward between the upper spreader and nose.  That would lift the nose a few inches allowing it to scoop air.  It would also (probably?) give the kite a 3-point stance between the bow and wingtips that minimized wear on other bits.
 

I’m not sure what the negatives might be.  It could be over-engineering for a problem that isn’t much of a problem as you become a more proficient pilot.  Still, dead-launch to lazy is a pretty cool maneuver, so....... 😄

[davide63]

The Benson Superfly, has a nice curve in the spine and happily rocks on its belly on a smooth sandy surface. Time it right and it is easy to pop up with a little flick of the wrists.

[midibot]

6 hours ago, Zuul said:

Has there ever been a kite with a feature to improve dead launches?  [...]

The HQ Obsession was a cool little kite late 1990s that could dead launch easily. Had a bowed spar that ran down the middle from the nose, propping the nose and thus facilitating the pop-up. 

For any wondering about it and unaware, Mark Reed does the dead launch in the early Prism videos, did he not? The curved leading edge and the right ground helps.

Oh yeah, here's the clip - an excerpt from one of the Way to Fly vids:

I am with Rob however. I don't do them. Too hard on the kite. 

Contemplate the walk

 

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[midibot]

Another take on the Dead Launch by the great DPMama74. With a bonus Sleeping Beaut thrown in.

I am almost never in these sand conditions:

 

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[Mike Eibey]

 

9 hours ago, Zuul said:

Has there ever been a kite with a feature to improve dead launches?  I can imagine a roll-bar-like feature that bows forward between the upper spreader and nose.  That would lift the nose a few inches allowing it to scoop air.  It would also (probably?) give the kite a 3-point stance between the bow and wingtips that minimized wear on other bits.
 

I’m not sure what the negatives might be.  It could be over-engineering for a problem that isn’t much of a problem as you become a more proficient pilot.  Still, dead-launch to lazy is a pretty cool maneuver, so....... 😄

I had been wondering that same thing. Just a little standoff type fitting to get the nose a few inches of clearance. I mean its not very difficult to just avoid getting in this position, but it still happens from time to time ya know.

And despite some people not calling it "the walk of shame," it really is the walk of shame when you have an audience. 😂

[mebeatee]

Many years ago dead launching was part of Prism's advertising per se and is, as pointed out....in the vids.

I also recall there was a thread on the old GWTW site where someone did attach some doodad onto a kite, but I can't recall....lol. I also don't recall any articles in the SKQ or Kitelines mags which are archived here on this fine site. I have a few printed mags and there were all sorts of nifty tricks done to kites written about, so it may be in the many I don't have....

bt

[frob]

On 11/4/2020 at 8:51 PM, Mike Eibey said:

 

I had been wondering that same thing. Just a little standoff type fitting to get the nose a few inches of clearance. I mean its not very difficult to just avoid getting in this position, but it still happens from time to time ya know.

😂

Scrolling back, I think we all mentioned that some kites are specifically designed for it. 

They are usually beginner or intermediate kites. Tricks and precision do better with a stiff frame (which break rather than bend), and tricks especially are often easier with straight edges and nothing to snag on, except yoyo stoppers designed to snag and release. 

You absolutely could add whiskers that keep the nose off the ground when belly-down. But the same whiskers would be in the way and snag on axels and other tricks. Even curved leading edges make some things more difficult. 

It's all about tradeoffs. 

[Zuul]

1 hour ago, frob said:

Even curved leading edges make some things more difficult. 

Can you elaborate?  I’m always looking for more insight into how specific design choices effect flight characteristics.  

[mebeatee]

It is interesting that design (choices) evolve and also come full circle, and this almost begs the question which came first...the kite or it's capability?

In the day of NSR's, Spectra Edge's, Hawaiian kites et al the LE's were straight, then kites LE's became more curved as some flying styles changed and "tricks" became popular. For instance I could axel a Spectra Edge but it was not easy....especially in comparison to a Jam Session. I'm sure there were a bunch of folks/designer/builder's who figured if they  experimented with a more curved LE these new found tricks would be more accessible and expanded upon......to a point where a while ago there was a movement back to more straight LE's as new trick combos were coming into play. Now it seems to be all over the map which is good, however folks are still trying to find/design/build that one kite that does it all.....not...and hopefully will stay this way.

It also just occurred to me the initial query into the dead launch. I had a Prism Fanatic that did this but my kite budget didn't like those kind of launches....however I was and still am a huge fan of the "the dead landing". My best "trick".....the incredibly soft landing in where you "kill" the kite so it lands/crashes gently. Kite's and kite budget like this trick.....

bt

 

 

 

[Mike Eibey]

Definitely have learned this move fairly well in the last few weeks. 

Never attempt it on my expensive kites but I have a second hand flying wings soul that I'm not worried about all that much.

I've found, atleast on a nice grass field, that by getting the first pop to be firm and literally only pull about a quarter inch of line if that followed by and immediate sweep works most of the time. 

That pop has to be sharp but extremely short to allow the nose to bounce high.

A decent breeze helps out alot too. 

Feel good having this little recovery method in my bag at this point.