Brettgrant99 Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 I have an old Benson Outerspace, a very nice kite. I have one spreader that is marked Excel 6. The other had no markings (I bought the kite used). I bought a pultruded rod of the right size, and it lasted one outing and splintered just like the first one. As far as I can tell, these Excel rods were something special, I just don't know what. Obvious stronger than normal pultruded carbon. Funny thing is, I can fly it pretty well splintered, go figure. Any insight would be appreciated. Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobL Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 ballance is pretty important in kite flying so using the same spreaders side to side can make a big difference. the outerspace specs call for p200 (Skyshark)...Kites and Fun Things in Michigan are a good place to buy Skyshark tubes and the ferrule that connects them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettgrant99 Posted June 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 I'm pretty sure that is for new Outerspaces. Mine is an old one. Maybe it is a direct swap, but my guess is that I will also need to replace the center T if I switch to skyshark. I guess its time get out the mike and start measuring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydub200 Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 According to this, the original spec was for 6mm Structil High Mod that hasn't been available for years. IIRC Structil was unmarked. I went through stick after stick of normal 6mm Strucil on the LLE of a Gemini. Very strong and lightweight, but a bit brittle. The Excel 6 is a fairly standard European 6mm tube. It is at the softer end of the spectrum, so most of the high end kite makers avoid it, but being softer it will be more resilient. My best guess is that you have one original High Mod and an Excel 6 replacement. Not really a marriage made in Heaven! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobL Posted June 2, 2021 Report Share Posted June 2, 2021 yeah, the mike, couldnt do without one. i noticed kites and fun things had a 6mm EXEL center T listed. if yours is 6mm (or .240 inches) then the p200 with .240 inside diameter should work. when you're dealing with a kite from the previous century (1998 lol), you have to improvise. luckily the owners of kites and fun, Jon and Marianne know everything about everything. Theresa at the Kite Shoppe in vancouver is also an expert on making things work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettgrant99 Posted June 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 Thanks all for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midibot Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 Just pulled out my old Benson Outer Space, framed in pultruded, and the lower spreaders are both unmarked but do have a kind of a shiny appearance unlike other pultruded. I expect they are probably the originals, likely Structil as stated above. I know both have identical black hollow-looking inserts at one end, for reinforcing at the centre T. Pretty sure some of my old school British kites used Exel at one time or another. Would have to check my old Std Stranger etc. According to the site jaydub refers to Exel was used in the Psycho, admittedly with a bit smaller span. (I have even used Avia .2300 in a pinch with some success, although it is a smidge smaller in diameter than the 6mm.) Kites and Fun things does carry some Exel pultruded sticks btw so maybe matching up your LSs may be a quick (non-reframe) way to go depending on which one you busted. Looks like they list a .2300 'strong' and a 'pro' under the Exel category. https://www.kitesandfunthings.com/Products/Excel-Pultruded-Carbon-Tubes__EXCELTUBES.aspx Nice kite btw. I know you are not giving up on it yet. 😉 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettgrant99 Posted June 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 4 hours ago, midibot said: Just pulled out my old Benson Outer Space, framed in pultruded, and the lower spreaders are both unmarked but do have a kind of a shiny appearance unlike other pultruded. I expect they are probably the originals, likely Structil as stated above. I know both have identical black hollow-looking inserts at one end, for reinforcing at the centre T. Pretty sure some of my old school British kites used Exel at one time or another. Would have to check my old Std Stranger etc. According to the site jaydub refers to Exel was used in the Psycho, admittedly with a bit smaller span. (I have even used Avia .2300 in a pinch with some success, although it is a smidge smaller in diameter than the 6mm.) Kites and Fun things does carry some Exel pultruded sticks btw so maybe matching up your LSs may be a quick (non-reframe) way to go depending on which one you busted. Looks like they list a .2300 'strong' and a 'pro' under the Exel category. https://www.kitesandfunthings.com/Products/Excel-Pultruded-Carbon-Tubes__EXCELTUBES.aspx Nice kite btw. I know you are not giving up on it yet. 😉 . Oh, I enjoy it very much. I have mixed feelings about it lately, but not in the way that you think. I tried it out towing an 80 foot tube tail the other day, and loved it. I just feel sad about using it for that kind of duty, when clearly it is a much more capable kite. Thanks for the input! Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caller Stephen Posted June 5, 2021 Report Share Posted June 5, 2021 Have you tried emailing Tim Benson. He can be contacted via the email on his website. He should be able to tell you what your version of Outerspace was framed with. I did find this spec for the outerspace that might match yours. The framing being a combination of Structil standard and Structil Hi Mod. "The Outer Space is framed in Hi-mod, a light, stiff and reasonably robust pultruded carbon. Tradewinds' excellent fittings are used and bungees at the tip and Velcro at the spine hold the sail taut." He still makes the outerspace http://www.bensonkites.com/kites/outerspace.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exult Posted June 6, 2021 Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 On 6/2/2021 at 4:17 AM, Brettgrant99 said: I bought a pultruded rod of the right size, and it lasted one outing and splintered just like the first one. Did the pultruded 6mm carbon spar by any chance break at the edge of the above mentioned centre-T fitting? You likely know the trick to glue 4mm tube or rod (a few cm long) inside the 6mm tube at the fitting to strengthen it. I had previously broken lower spreaders in mid air when snap-stalling until I added these plugs inside the 6mm tube. On 6/2/2021 at 8:07 PM, BobL said: when you're dealing with a kite from the previous century (1998 lol), you have to improvise. I occasionally use my few old kites for their different flying properties, nostalgia or returning to and old model with hopefully new skills I was about to say. But then I realize it has been a long while since doing DLKing… Still, ”1998 lol” I have difficulties in fully accepting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettgrant99 Posted June 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2021 both have broken about couple of inches outside the T, however, it is kind of hard to tell and the splits go quite far. I may just try gluing in a plug, although I hadn't really thought about it before now. Thanks for the suggestion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exult Posted June 7, 2021 Report Share Posted June 7, 2021 The kite with the strongest frame that I got are my HQ speed/power(/though quite trickable) Fazer XL and XXL. By design the lower spreaders are strong. They are plugged both on the inner and outer side and are also the thickest of the spars - 10mm on the XL and 12mm on the XXL. Tip stabbing the rather heavy kites can then instead have consequences for the LLE (and split nocks): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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