Fireliner Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 Due to really good ice conditions this winter I have been busy with a fun project. Having tried using wing(inflatable handheld traction device mostly used for foiling as in wingfoiling) as a propulsion device when ice skating, I could not let the thought that the thick leading edge of the inflatable wings were the limiting factor in top speed. So i buried myself in the shed and started building my own version. As usual no real plans to follow but somewhat inspired by kitewings ridgid frame wings. A week of late nights later and the wing was ready. About 3m2 sail area. Limited testing possibilities so far but the slim leading edge has a real advantage over the commercial inflatable wings when it comes to top speed but of course at a price of lower amounts of lift. However i like the fact that I could outrun wings with almost double the sail area when it comes to top speed. Some action up to around 50kmh 6ms windspeed gusting to 12. Soft slushy ice surface with pools of water on top. Nordic skates. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Marmaras Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 Hi Firelier, awesome area your skating. Your no plans approach is commended, more fun and experimenting and mistakes lead to success. Impressed with professional design. Since speed is main objective maybe lighten frame w/ carbon and maybe increase sail area a bit. Increase the l e curve for more lift out of the slush. A hybrid Ridgid and inflatable tube design might get you the benefits of both? Your definitely out performing the 2x inflatable foil that are not as user friendly as your design. Too much lift seems scary on skates. A handle or strap on l e might be HANDY. Let me know if you make another design. I am making a quad sort of like the Fulcrum. Good luck and keep on experiminting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireliner Posted February 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 Hi Michael. I have added some stiffness although not very much(roll wrapped some more fibreglass to masts) to the frame since the video was taken. I am still waiting for steady 10ms+(22mph+) winds, and of course the perfect ice (long stretch) that never shows up the same time as the wind.🤔 I still have som trimming options to explore with mast angle vs boom and sail tension. One of the benefits of low amounts of lift is the fact that I am able to force the sail into a more upright position(catching more wind). With apparent windspeed at speed i am still able to have enough lift to angle the skates(lean into the wind) This is hopefully only the first of several builds but time is limited so i think this would be the 2022 model. However I am still thinking of ways to improve and not afraid to modify, but would like to test in optimal conditions. I don't think weight would matter all that much speedwise but it would of course make the wing easier to manhandle trough tacks and gybes. Carbon would be stiffer and I think the wing could benefit from that, but at some point it would be so stiff that it would be gnarly in the gusts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Marmaras Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 Hi Fireliner, You seem to know a lot about kite geometry and overall kite dy namics and physics. Trimming in my experiences is worth experimenting with. Little changes sometimes make big differences. Like you know sail loading is useful to determine pulling force. Your idea of keeping angle more perpendicular to wind should optimize wind. Like you said ease of use and manageability often out weigh other benefits. What is the clear panel? Mylar laminant? You seem to be on track for an awesome final motor. Your prototype looks very professional. Maybe some one might be interested in manufacturing some for sale. Good for buggy pulling too. That's also lots of fun. Keep tinkering and you should end up with a great result. Thanks again for the way cool video. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midibot Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 Wow! That was an exhilarating watch from the comfort of my couch. Well done. (I had to look up and refresh my memory about Nordic skates. I guess it might be a little trickier on my old hockey skates, eh? 😉 ) . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireliner Posted February 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 honestly i do not really know what the material in the clear panels are but i suspect it is some vinyl as it is not(to my eyes) a laminate. Most of the light coloured parts and also the clear parts of the wing is made out of parts from a older windsurfing sail "Hood Trilaminar kevlar". Black and fluorgreen wingtips is from an old traction kite. It's all about the project and of course the sailing fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireliner Posted February 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, midibot said: Wow! That was an exhilarating watch from the comfort of my couch. Well done. (I had to look up and refresh my memory about Nordic skates. I guess it might be a little trickier on my old hockey skates, eh? 😉 ) . I would think you would be fine on hockey skates on ice of relatively good quality, the Nordics would be better on more uneven ice and possibly faster due to longer and flatter "steel". For proper icesailing tall 15-20cm skates with alpine skiboots seems preferred by the pros. I consider myself an happy amateur, and use what I'm most used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Marmaras Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 Michael here, You that are interested in skating seem to have too much fun. I ice skated twice. Tennessee bound. Snow once a year at most. Norway kicked butt at Olympics. Fireliner has awesome video to share of kite propulsion skating. Looks exciting and a bit fun dangerous. Have fun and look forward to more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Marmaras Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Every one into winter sports needs to amp it up springs near HAVE FUN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Marmaras Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Michael Contactact me direct at marmarasmichael@gmail.com Don't take my advice I don't use it anyway. Happy flights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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