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Penny Lingenfelter

Indoor Kite Modifications?

11 posts in this topic

Hey guys,

I'm enjoying the INdoor Rev.

But there are somethings the 1.5 does easier.

An example is an arched overhead.. a simple 180, tip to tip.

Tracking across on tip. 3:00 to 9:00

The Standard Revolution 1.5 did this with ease indoor in no wind. The smaller, heavier sail helped.

You have to work the INdoor a little more because of the depth of the sail. But I don't want to work my kites to much.

*Is Rev going to take a closer look at the Indoor soon?

I enjoy the Indoor, but if there's going to be changes..well... I don't want to start

customizing old kites. lol j/ kidding.

Seriously..though, can it be improved on?

BB Penny

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This is part of the reason I want to get a modified rev II for indoors. It would axel much better as well. I think maybe a rev 1.5 or a rev II made with the same materials as the rev Indoor would fit the solution quite well.

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My problems with the indoor are a personal concern I guess. I have so many hours on the outdoor models that I find the differences between the two models difficult to overcome. (I know, practice some more and all that could change!)

Here's the first thing, easily noticed about the differences between the two models. I see that the down spars are much closer together (towards the center of the sail) on the indoor. For me that means my hands can't be as far apart when flying it.

How to overcome this "concern"?

I'd say to make a 1.5 with lighter weight materials, like a single skin of Icarex

or

a mostly-skin of Orcon, with Ixy to reinforce the higher stress areas only.

Orcon fabric isn't in any way durable, it has to be assembled with adhesive rather than sewing also.

The indoor model is taller on the down-spars, so the flight dynamics are "centered" deeper into the sail. That helps to grab a big section of air-pressure, but makes changes in direction more difficult, side-slides included.

Going to a smaller sail shape will make a kite faster, but I don't see that as an advantage to indoor flight either (hence my aversion to the Rev2, even a highly modified one). The best performances (my personal opinion again, to be sure!) are S-L-O-W and graceful. Throwing the kite around or ignoring the reverse characteristics is a distinct disadvantage, particularly in competition.

There are advantages and disadvantages to using a bridle too. "Catches" are more difficult, but the kite's action on the end of the strings is smoother, due to the de-tuning which a bridle's slight slack in specific areas allows. Twitchy movements are lessened, but is the compromise worth it for your particular flying style?

The indoor could be assembled with standard styled end-caps and bungie. The insertion style of cap assembly leaves the connecting lines exposed to abrasion and abuse. Eventually they will fail, then many owners adopt a new connection method to make the kite more durable.

Speaking of durable. How much weight are you willing to carry to insure the kite can fly indoors but not implode with a strong input command?

The attached photo shows a local guy, Dave Ashworth who makes a killer indoor or low-wind kite. He's created an indoor Blast, a modified 1point5 and a Tirips (Spirit spelled backwards)

post-170-1222787048_thumb.jpg

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Going to a smaller sail shape will make a kite faster, but I don't see that as an advantage to indoor flight either (hence my aversion to the Rev2, even a highly modified one). The best performances (my personal opinion again, to be sure!) are S-L-O-W and graceful. Throwing the kite around or ignoring the reverse characteristics is a distinct disadvantage, particularly in competition.

The main reason for going to a Rev 2 is not to make a speedy indoor kite. Really, the main reason was initially to have an indoor kite that I can keep in my book bag in case of "emergencies". Ignoring the obvious speed increase, I think the Rev 2 will give better reverse flight, slides, and axels than the current rev indoor does. I would probably never use a rev 2 in any indoor performance, but you never know.

As for different paced indoor performances, I agree that there needs to be some degree of precision, but I think that the best competition routine is built off of variation. This includes the fast, the slow, the grace, the flips, and the tricks. Obviously, I tend to lean towards the fast flippy tricky option because that's just how I roll. (Just to make sure, I am in no way denying you your opinion or declaring you to be wrong, but just that I believe that slow and graceful alone does not make a good performance.)

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Yes, I agree varied is best. Lolly told me she heard slow was harder to do then fast. Sorry, I don't believe that to be true. It's what ever you work on. I've flown with the slow fliers and that is what they are good at.

If you think your hands have to be in a certain spot, like close to each other to make the kite fly, then that's probably the way you practice. They don't have to be next to each other. They don't have to be at your waist when you do an up on tip. It looks good, but you have no place to go if you need power without moving your whole body.

As for the Rev II being faster, they are, but I've seen a single and a stack of Rev II's, fly as slow as any Synergy Deca inside by Oches. They slow, reverse and stop just like the rest of the revs. The idea of the smaller sail is to add speed and still be able to keep the slow. It's awesome. It's also going to take some practice.

My genie routine that is on U-Tube.. I flew with short lines,.. .it's faster.. hadn't flown it in about a year.. it could be slowed down.. I could have used longer lines, but.. my hands are seldom together. Nor do I bend my body over when I fly close to the ground. I've watched the flyers do that and it's more for effect then needed power.. At least when they need the power I'm watching them step back rather then pull up. Knee jerk reaction maybe?

Throws and catches gain you extra points in every competiton I"ve seen. So not sure how this is a disadvantage? Flyers start out pretty slow while they learn.. they usually have to as they look for balance on the end of the strings. They are looking for grace, then they improve, then they develop a style.. that style evolves over time. Reverse is just another added degree of difficulty.

My mom loves slow and graceful, my friends find it boring as all get out. Imagine if we watched the same slow styles over and over again. It would boil down to "forward, reverse, overhead, up, down. circles.

To each thier own. That's what makes the kites great for everyone.

I do think they have quit with the indoor caps. I received mine with outdoor caps on it. Yeah!!!

Hmm, Not convinced about a bridle needed on a Rev Indoor. I'll put my twitches down to pilot error, not kite's ability.

I've seen many indoor kites.. there are beautiful kites out there.. but nothing compares to the Rev. yet in my opinion.

BB Penny ~Still thinking the indoor might be improved on in the future.

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I do think they have quit with the indoor caps. I received mine with outdoor caps on it. Yeah!!!

I think they thought about it more when I ordered my custom Indoor with outdoor end caps. I'm pretty sure Ben even put a small post about it on the rev forum. (About the change, not my Rev Indoor)

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Finished my indoor REV 2 today. Tomorrow I will be at the gym and giving it a try. I am using race rods in it and I think they are going to work fine. I played with it in the garage just to check things out and it seems very light. I little flick of the wrists and it poped right up in the air.

Sorry to say my sewing really sucks. You may only look at this kite from a distance.

I will post a little report on how it works out. I only have about 10 minutes on an Indoor REV flying so It will probably not be a spectacular report.

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John we need pics! sounds cool .

One of the things I have never liked about the indoor revs is the noise they make when they touch down.. whether its on purpose or not, I have always found it very distracting.

So Watty helped me do the eraser on the end cap trick.. and personally I love it. ( I am trying not to touch down at all..lol ) but if I do on purpose, I don't want some soft pretty music interrupted with a loud click as it touches..

thanks for the help Watty.

hugs mousie

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i do like the indoor kite but i will say that lam hoac has the 1.5 indoor part down pretty good as i saw in wildwood a few years back.. dave asworths bat that i flew in oc maryland this year with the wooden handles was a really sick no wind kite and on the first day the winds were next to nothing and i was flying that one perfect.. i dont have the light wind flight experence like rev flier or dave a has because im spoiled with the winds i get here so i dont get much of a chance to practice it here .. i can fly in light winds but not as good as they do..myself and paul lemaster are total oppisites as we both have said to eachother.. he has no wind where i have all of it..i do want to give that blast indoor a try someday

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John we need pics! sounds cool .

One of the things I have never liked about the indoor revs is the noise they make when they touch down.. whether its on purpose or not, I have always found it very distracting.

So Watty helped me do the eraser on the end cap trick.. and personally I love it. ( I am trying not to touch down at all..lol ) but if I do on purpose, I don't want some soft pretty music interrupted with a loud click as it touches..

thanks for the help Watty.

hugs mousie

I do love my erasers.

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Got about an hour on my REV 2I. It flew pretty nice. I was able to conquer quite a few of the basics. I played with a couple size handles and found that small REV 2 handles are the best and adjusted the braking so there was no slack in any of the lines. That made a difference. I will be sticking with the small handles for awhile. It is fast so the inputs have to be delicate.

Went to the hardware store and bought some nylon washers and vinyl end caps. Have cleaned up the kite a little and will go try again on Friday.

I will try to take some pictures from a distance so my craftmanship does not show. The biggest problem was the pocket. Used .75 RSN and it was very slippery, probably should have a walking foot on the sewing machine.

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