Dead Man!! Walk of shame!

[Guru4tru]

Hi,

I posted this at AKA and thought I'd post it here too.

Belly down nose toward me...Dead Man! (as I call it). I've never been able to get out of it. I see some guy on a Prism DVD whose able to double hit it and bounce the kite up just enough to catch the wind, but I've never been successful at it...not once. It's the only position that requires "the Walk of Shame" out of me.

But, I was thinking...if you had a clip on device at the nose, sort of a half circle running from one leading edge to the other...about 2 or 3 inches down each L.E. and then supported from the tip of the nose to the center of the device....(sort of a rounded triangle as to not catch the line),that would raise the nose off the ground a few inches...probably just enough to catch the wind when the kite is in the Dead Man position.

I know it might sound like "training wheels" on a bike...but I'd go for it (that's if it didn't interfere with the kites flight or any stunts).

So, before I go making up a protorype for my own use, I'd like to know if there is anything like that already on the market?

Keep It Up!

Duane

[Baloo]

Sounds like a reasonable idea to me, not that I know much about dual line.

I do know enough that almost any pancake type landing ends in a long walk for me, especially face down as you say.

[tonycarl60]

Already done: Flyingwings Rock On

[Guru4tru]

Hi,

Hey, that's really encouraging! Now I know that it can be made and probably works, (effect on the kite unknown), but I wasn't looking to buy a whole new kite. I just want the "gismo" to put on my Nirvana. I'll probably have to make one to see what effect, if any, it has on the kites ability.

I have an old dial-up computer that doesn't play videos, (yeah...all of Randyg's stuff has gone unseen by me), so I can't see how they made it. If it is visable in the video could you give me a discription of what you see...that would probably save me a lot of time.

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I was thinking all it would probably take would be a very thin piece of spring (tempered) steel, like a wisker, attached to a small connector at the spine on the back of the kite just below the nose and then bent around over the nose to a connector in the middle of the upper spreader. It would probably have to touch or connect to the nose to keep it at a right angle to the kite. That would allow it to be pretty small and act maybe more as a spring to pop the kite into the air after the first tug, rather then holding the kite fairly high off the ground. (I'll have to work on it).

Thanks for your help!

Keep It Up!

Duane

[tonycarl60]

Is this any help?

[Guru4tru]

Good picture Tony...that's funny!

The AKA forum and here has changed my mind on things...my last post at AKA:

"Yeah, you are probably right about it causing some sort of problem or someone would have manufactured something good by now. And you are right...I shouldn't get into that position in the first place. heehee! With the device on my kite I'd only be delaying or not learning how to work better with a downed kite.

OK...I think I'll give up this brain storm...It was probably only an emotional response to that dog going for my kite and it was stuck on the ground!

Thanks for your time and help!

Keep It Up!

Duane

[tonycarl60]

You're welcome:)

[John Barresi]

A little history... I first saw this concept implemented as an after market addon for any delta sport kite, called "The Bone".

Designed by Bob Childs and distributed primarily during 1991-1992, it got no use on the competition field, and didn't turn up too often except on Bob's own charter kite design called the "Wizard".

Didn't see anything like this again until 1993 when Vince Bobrosky (of Stinger fame) released a kite called the "Pro Warrior" which featured double bones, essentially extensions of the wiskers (stand offs) that continued well past the bottom spreaders, bowing back until the other end of the bones (opposite from the sail) connected with fittings on the top spreader.

This last one seemed to be the most practical in design and handling.

Hope that was of some interest!

[Guru4tru]

Thanks for your, and others, knowledge and good advice. You have confirmed my mind as to...not... to go there.

I really don't mind the walk once in awhile, but a dead run to beat out a dog, I'll pass on that. I'll just have to be more aware on my surroundings when I fly.

By the way, I made Destiny a beautiful house to life in. I got some 3" thin walled PVC tubing and put a coupling type, two piece, screw cap on both ends. I cut it to 5'-2", about 3" longer then Destiny, and I put sponge rubber inside the ends of both caps. This way I don't have to dissemble her "slender legs" when I put her to sleep. My past experience with fly rods...and doors and truck tail gates...has given me some wisdom. (And also this way I can sleep with her beside my bed and I have no fear of stepping on her when I get up...heehee!).

I was asked once if I loved my kites more then my wife...I said,

"Well, It depends on the wind!!" heehee!

Keep It Up!

Duane

[Guru4tru]

Hi,

By the way, (on my other "by the way"), I make my own winders (and line sets) so I can slip a few diffrent lenghts of 'lines sets' inside the 3' tubing with Destiny (my Nirvana UL). Most of the winders out there are too big or the smaller ones that would fit would have you winding all day, (and none are very pretty), there is one that would be about the right size, "estracto" (or somthing like that), but it seems to be out of stock everwhere I looked. But Lowe's and Home Depot both carry precut "oak wood strips" that measure about 1/4" thick by 2 1/2" wide by 2' to 4' in lenght, that make great winders when cut down. I make them about 9" long, so I'm not winding all day, and when finished they add a warm artistic home grown sort of feeling to an alreaty artistic display.

Sorry, I can't sent a picture, but I don't know how to do that yet.

(Like I said, we hide from the heat down here in the summer and have to do something when not flying! heehee!)

Keep It Up!

Duane

PS My Nirvana STD is in the mail, so I am told, I don't believe there will be any problem or competition between her and Destiny, because they both know they fly in different winds, but I don't have a name for her yet....got any suggestions?

[Guru4tru]

Hi, (another by the way, by the way)

I want to thank Forrest Scott Wood in the AKA forum for coming up with my, (yet to arrive Nirvana STD), named---"Serenity"...that's perfect (why didn't I come up with that?)

I'm bouncing between the AKA and Kitelife fourms, so if you already read this I'm sorry for the repitition:

I mentioned I make my own winders, but forgot to mention I put a slot in one side and a hole in the other. Then I "steal" some of my wife's bungie type circular hair ties and cut it, then I slip one end through the hole and tie a knot in both ends. I use this to wrap around the winder and then slip the end into the slot to hold everything in place.

My wife was asked once is she loved her kites more then her husband, she said, "Yes!"

I also make my own wrist and finger straps. The kite manufactures have amazing artistic imagination when it comes to beautiful kites, but seem to go artistically brain dead on accessories. I go to a pet store and buy long nylon dog leases, some have really beautiful designs. I cut them to size by melting (cutting) through them with a hot knife that I heat over the stove. (Make sure it's an old knife, because it will probably only be good for this purpose again after doing this once with it.) I have some old knifes with wooden handles, but if the handle is metal you will need to wrap some cloth around the handle as to not burn yourself. And stick it under cold water to cool it after using it, because it stays hot for a long time. Then I tie a piece of bridle line in a circle and run the wrist strap through it. I hand sew the ends of the strap together and then pull the bridle up against the sewn connection (with the knot in the center of the stitching) and then I sew the strap again on the other side of the bridle line. As an extra, I put a piece of colored heat shrink tubing over the stitched area and shrink it down over the end, but that isn't necessary...just makes it a bit prettier or gives you some color coding of your winders. I use different colored hair ties to tell the length of the lines and different colored heat shrinks to tell what poundage the line is on the winder.

Keep It Up!

Duane

[JoneZ]

I'd like to see a pic of those straps Duane. Im always interested in home made projects and tweaks/mods.

Hope your Nirvana is treating you well. In regards to your walk of shame, the maneuver to recover from that position is called a "dead Launch" and it can be extremely hard on the spine section of your sail. I tore a 3" hole on the spine section of my sail practicing it. It is a pretty hard recovery to master imo. The 2 pops have to be quick in succession, but not over powering. Real tricky for me. If you want to practice this maneuver, I would suggest re-enforcing the sail down the spine with some duct tape, or some other kind of thick adhesive tape. I would cry if you tore that beauty of yours. Don't make me Cry Duane..... hehe I would just suggest really to walk the walk of shame. After about 50 collective miles of walking that walk, you'll have learned to not get in that position in the first place.

Cheers m8, and Good Winds

~Jon

[Guru4tru]

Hey Jon!

Great to hear from you! "Destiny" (nirvana UL) and I are doing great! A true love affair! She's teaching me how to do tricks. And don't worry about my trying to "dead launch" her, I've given up on any thoughts in that area, unless that Tazmaniam Devil returns. She rarely gets into that position anyway and she reacts a lot quicker to my movements then the Quantum, so I can usually flip her around much easier. Believe it or not, I'm doing yo-yo's, fades, back spins, axils, & lazy susans with her regularly...she's really a fine kite. Who said, "You can't teach old dogs new tricks!!"

But the flying is really rough down here this time of year. For the past few weeks the heat index has been over 100. Today it was 106 when Rhonda and I went out. We'd take shifts...one flies and the other sits in the air conditioned car for awhile...and we'd take turns..heehee!

My "Serenity"(nirvana STD) has been stuck in one location in the Canadian Postal Service for the past 8 days, so I have no idea when she might escape that and make it home. heehee!

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As you know I'm computer stupid, so I will have to take some pictures of the straps and winders tomorrow and sent them to you in an e-mail. I don't know how to do anything online...took me over a month to figure out how to get that "avadar", or whatever it's called, in place.

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Glad you are back and everything went well!

Keep It Up!

Duane

[Guru4tru]

Hi,

I talked a lot about the "Dead Man's" position and I mentioned the guy on the Prism DVD who was able to double hit the kite off the ground to get it up enough to catch the wind. Well, don’t worry I’m not going there! But, on the same DVD the guy has his kite completely underwater and brings it up to the surface and launches it out of the water.

Well, I figured that was another: “No Way!!”

But today, being that it is Saturday, my wife and I decided to go on a Sunday drive and we wound up at Melbourne Florida and crossed over to Sebastian Inlet State Park. We were flying my Quantum over, what I think some call, Pelican Lake and as you can expect the Quantum at one point dove into the lake just like a Pelican! But, as I pulled very slowly the nose started to appear, then the top spreader, then the lower spreaders…and it actually lifted out of the water just like in the DVD and took to the air!!!!! You can actually do it!!

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There was one other surprise. As we got lost coming off of Melbourne Beach, I looked to my right and there was a kite shop. (Which caused some beeping of horns as I turned from the far left lane.) Now there might be rules about “plugging” a kite shops here, and that’s OK for you North Westerners, but down here in Eastern Florida the kite shops are so far and few between…well, it’s more like “kite survival” and that rule doesn’t count.

Don’t get me wrong…there are some places that sell kites, but most of them are like lawn ornament type shops. I look around in them and don’t even bother asking for whatever I came there for. But I walked into this shop, looking around, but when I got to the back of the store there was a counter and behind the counter were boxes of leading edges…and….broken spines…”real” broken kite parts off of “real” kites! I smiled like I had hit something good and figured I’d take a shot at it. I asked the women, named Lisa, if she had any 50# spectra and instead of saying, “I’m sorry I just work here!” she said yes and handed it to me. Now to those of you that have become spoiled will everything you want at your finger tips, this might not mean much…but to me this was better then my liquid launch a few hours earlier.

Her name is Lisa (a delightful person) and the store is called, “Kite World” www.kiteworld.com ...and she even makes custom kites to your desire. I saw some high end kites in the back of the store that I don't see on her web site, so if you don't see what you want at the web site, just contact her and she probably has it.

Keep It Up!

Duane

[MrDenny]

That is a nice kite shop and Lisa will go out of her way to help. She ordered my Rev Blast for me several years ago and even matched an online price I showed her. I wish they were not so far from me in Merritt Island. When ever I'm down that way I stop by. Last time I was there it seemed they had taken a large interest in the Power kites.

[Guru4tru]

Yes, as I mentioned I was quite impressed.

Unfortunately, I live in Royal Palm Beach which isn't anywhere near the place, and the only other real kite shop I'm aware of is Miami. I think I live in like the "Black Hole of kiting".

All my shopping has to be online, which isn't too bad, but it was nice to just browse around a real kite store for once!

Keep It Up!

Duane