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Ferrule on Middle leading edge pushed flush


velella
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I was giving a friend some latitude and let her set up the kite as I was laying out stings. She inadvertently pushed too hard and pushed one of the ferrules in flush with the outer tube. I went ahead and ordered a replacement but do want to fix the problem.

My first infallible method is to try to hold the rod firmly enough without crushing it and strike the hold down sharply. Hopefully the inertia will move the ferrule rod out far enough to grasp it. Then I can epoxy it back in place.

If that does not work, my second infallible method will be to use a screw extractor with a left hand drill to put a small hole in the middle of the ferrule, insert the extractor and hopefully gently pull it out. Reverse it and re-epoxy back in place.

I am sure I am not the first that this has happened to. Am I on the right track or is there a secret method of getting things right that I have not figured out.

Thanks...

Mike

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Hi Mike,

Two days ago I put my Rev. together and everything seemed fine, but after a couple passes...it crumbled in the sky!! Such a dreadful sight! :innocent: :confused!:

What had happened was the ferrule had pushed into the center rod so it was sticking out only about 1/16", just enough for thing to feel like everything was OK when I put it together. The outer rod end broke, slightly, where it was almost attached. There was just enough of the ferrule for me to get some needle nosed pylers on it to pull it out. But, at the time I was trying to pull it out I thought if this doesn't work I could pull the ferrule out of the other end and ram a .22 ga. cleaning rod, coat hanger or small dia. dowel, through the hollow tube and knock it out....that might work, although I didn't have to try it.

In my case, I took the ferrules out of the center rod and glued them in the one that had the broken end on it, so things are OK. I decided to check out my other wrap sets and add a small drop of glue to them to insure that doesn't happen again. :artist:

Keep It Up!

Duane

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Oh...Yeah, I had another thought...If I couldn't get the other ferrule off, to poke something through to knock the ferrule out, then I was going to just push it in farther, about halfway...and leave it there, and then add a new ferrule on the end.

I don't know where you are in your flying "expertise", but the additional weight of one ferrule about in the center of my kite...effecting how I might handle it..."Is Laughable!!" :innocent::artist:

Keep It Up!

Duane

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Thanks Duane,

I had not thought about pulling the opposite ferrule and then pushing it out from the other end... I can do that. And I think I am going to use epoxy instead of isocyanate simply because I do not respect the longevity of isocyanate. So, now I have a third infallible method.

At least I did not have the issue that you had with the end of the tube breaking.

As for my flying experience... I can keep it in the air and make it go where I want but some of the cool moves are yet to be learned. I watched JB this weekend in Huntington Beach and as always he is simply superior and inspiring. Like you I came from dualies and I really like speed (my favorite dualie is a micron and my second revolution is a shockwave)but the amazing moves of a B is great.

I am not sure I would notice the weight of an orphan ferrule either... but who knows.

Maybe someone will offer a fourth infallible method.

Mike

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Hey Mike, best of luck with fixing the rods. Oh and welcome to the forum btw.

I think most folks who fly kites have had the same problem as you at some time.

Sometimes by "flicking" th rod with a snap of the wrist will give you enough to grasp with pliers. I could not get one out so went the push it in route. Even if it is not to the middle you will probably not notice it in flight.

Oh and you do know to go say Hi to JB if you ever see him about dont you? He might even have time to give you a short flying lesson.

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Actually, the lady I was with and I went over to the lessons field and she got some one on one from the very gracious John Barresi. She had watched his solo and IQUAD's performance before we went over there, so she was very impressed that he was so approachable.

It was later in the afternoon that we went off down the beach to fly my kite. She got to where she was began to have some control. An aside is that she is a former world champion Disc Golf Player and still active in the sport in her late 50s. She had never considered kites before.

While she is not yet dreaming Kite, she is definitely interested.

Mike

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I've had this problem once before as well. To retrieve the ferrule, I grabbed a small flat headed screw (in my case, I grabbed a drywall screw because it was closest to my hand and they usually have a very flat head on it) that was smaller in diameter than the ferrule. I superglued the screw to the ferrule, pulled the ferrule out, snapped off the screw and then epoxied the ferrule back in place. Good as new.

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I've had this problem once before as well. To retrieve the ferrule, I grabbed a small flat headed screw (in my case, I grabbed a drywall screw because it was closest to my hand and they usually have a very flat head on it) that was smaller in diameter than the ferrule. I superglued the screw to the ferrule, pulled the ferrule out, snapped off the screw and then epoxied the ferrule back in place. Good as new.

Great idea, not thoght of that one.

Given you a vote of confidence :innocent:

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... I grabbed a small flat headed screw ... that was smaller in diameter than the ferrule. I superglued the screw to the ferrule, pulled the ferrule out, snapped off the screw and then epoxied the ferrule back in place. Good as new.

I'll keep that idea in mind ... sounds good. Another method is to align and tape a ferrule-less rod to the end of the rod with the stuck ferrule. Then carefully bounce the taped together rods (as a column or a long arrow shaft)on a block of wood ... bounce it so that the weight of the ferrule will allow it to move down into the ferrule-less rod.

I've removed a correctly glued in ferrule by bouncing it on a block of wood until the bond brakes. Then it's easy to pull it free.

Cheers,

Tom

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I was excited about the super glue and pull toy suggestion... and I thought I had been frugal enough with the superglue... but it appears that I used a tad too much and it appears to have "wicked" between the ferrule and the rod. I might have glued it in place -- pushed in and slightly below the rim of the rod. And, before that, I did try several inertia methods. I think my next attempt will be the screw extractor. I did mention that I had already ordered a replacement 3-wrap didn't I?

So... even if I am unsuccessful and end up pushing the ferrule deeper in. It has been very gratifying and heartening to know there are so many helpful people out there.. and that so many of you have done the same thing. Thanks to all of you for all the help.

And, I will report on the final resolution.

Mike :artist::innocent:

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Hi Mike,

You can always use that rod for one of the legs, if you want, and take the ferrule out of the other end or cut it off, and add ferrules to another rod to make up another center spar. But, with a new wrap on it's way...you'll have a spare rod, if you need it.

Keep It Up!

Duane

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:confused!: It does appear that I struck a nerve... that I am not the only one with an issue. Strangely enough, I went to the beach today to fly at lunch using my two wrap rods and when I went assemble the leading edge one of the mid section ferrules had come out and was stuck in the end section. Glue still on the ferrule. I am going to get out my glue and make sure that all of the ferrules are firmly in place on both sets of 1.5 rods and on my Shockwave. Something to do with my hands while watching the Laker game.

Mike :innocent:

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Hi Mike,

Don't get so caught up in the game that you glue your fingers to things...yeah, yeah...I've done that too...heehee! :innocent:

But this was a good discussion...Thanks for bringing it up! You may have saved a lot of people from experiencing the same thing!! And, I for one, learned a few different methods, that I didn't think about before, should I ever run into it again! (Which is rather doubtful...thanks to your post!) :artist:

Keep It Up!

Duane

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:artist::innocent::lol::mf_party: :mf_party: :mf_party::clap; :clap:clap; :clap;

Eureka... I have success. With all the great advice here, I took a little of this and a little of that to come up with the 7th infallible method.

I used the tap, tap, tap of dropping the rod on the floor on the opposite ferrule, thereby breaking the glue bond. Then I used a rod of the proper dimensions to tap, tap on the ferrule that was stuck in the other end (I had to break the glue I let seep in when I did the 3rd infallible method) and it came out.

And my new LE came from Wind of Change today, so now I have two intact and functional middle 3 wraps.

Now... where's the wind???

Thanks to all of you who offered ideas and ultimately solutions, and support. This was kind of a cool experience.

In the immortal words of Kermit the Frog, "There's not a word yet, for old friends who just met"! Thank you.

Mike

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Glad you worked it our Mike.

Good topic, and well worth visiting / re-visiting.

I have had the problem, must admit dont check mine anywhere near enough, just seems like hassle to pull that middle leading edge out. I will obviously curse when it happens again. Possibly damaging the rod in the process.

If anyone knows of a glue that will hold them in forever, given the flex and abuse the leading edges get I am sure we would all like to know, heck, I am sure Rev would like to know.

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I used basic superglue when I put things back together. I think the brittleness of the super glue (it looks like that ZAP is a gel superglue - you won't get the capillary action of the thinner stuff) is why it gives up. Obviously the kite frame is very alive and eventually anything brittle is going to weaken.

But I found a two part epoxy that is supposed to remain somewhat flexible. I have not tried it yet but I will report on it.

I expect the carbon rods use an epoxy resin as the binder, so there should be no compatibility issues.

Mike

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Mike.

not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but be carefull if you use two part epoxy.

When you put your ferrul? into your rod, with epoxy on it, there is a slight build up of pressure inside the rod.

So, if you shove the ferrul in say, half way, the pressure will tend to push it out. honestly,believe me it does. ;) .

What i do now is, put my rod on the table and weight it down.

Insert my ferrul half way, and but something up against the end.

Anything will do, but i tend to use an upturned plate.

If you dont do that, you could come back in half an hour and you have 1 inch in your rod and two inch sticking out, all nicely glued together(once again :)

Its ok if the rod is open each end to start with, but its when you fix your second ferrul that the trouble starts

Hope im not too late with this

Derek.

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I can see that happening and I had not considered it. I will be very careful. Like I said, I did use superglue this time. If it comes out again... or I have the same problem with other rods, I plan to use the two part but will be sure to make a jig to keep the ferrule from pistoning back out.

Thank you.

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  • 9 months later...

One glue solution for the ferrule problem that I use is "Flex Coat"

It is a 2 part epoxy that remains somewhat flexible and is used in fishing rods for coating the thread holding down the eyelets.

Down side, it takes time to set though. Several house to set and then about 24hours to finish.

They make a 5 minute flex coat also. Will try that later

It is self leveling, so having the rod turn slowly at first keeps the glue even and not puddling.

Fishing rod supply businesses, websites have the product, and info.

I use just enough to coat the entire surface of the ferrule.

Push in and twist at least 30 degrees and hold for a short time so it doesn't back out.

Haven't had one come loose yet.

I can remove it later also....drop tapping on a block of wood works after numerous taps.

I have used it on ferrules on the 1/4" rods and rods for SLE and Super Sonic.

I have also used Zap a Gap. It has worked great so far.

I also use Flex Coat with wrapping the rod ends, about 2 to 3" or so, of some of the rods that have cracked or chipped, using rod wrapping line and the tools for wrapping fishing rods.

Works great until a new rod(s) is ordered and to have emergency rod(s) available just in case that would have been otherwise thrown away.

With the colors of wrapping thread available, I use color threads to match the sail colors.

Rod bling, yeah baby!

It does add a just tad bit of weight though.

Steve

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...

I use just enough to coat the entire surface of the ferrule.

Push in and twist at least 30 degrees and hold for a short time so it doesn't back out.

Haven't had one come loose yet.

...

I've also had good results with a more flexible adhesive than CA (super glue), but with one addition. I clean the inside rod surface with a solvent and then coat it lightly with the adhesive. Then when the ferrule is inserted (after also being lightly coated with the adhesive) there is a much better chance of complete filling of the glue joint.

Yes, you will push a small about of adhesive ahead of the ferrule, but that helps keep it from being pushed in "if" it comes loose again ...

Cheers,

Tom

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