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Rev -leader adjustments, tuning?


windpoacher
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confused_1.gifHello!!, Quad heads,- I have added longer leaders to my handles for my lead lines with knots about a half -in. apart! I am wondering if their is a simple test to find the best adjustment ? for variable wind conditions? Being a newbie to revs I am not sure of the proper feel of the kite in flight ! I have been flying my EXP for about 7 months, and I could fly, but could not hover what so ever ! at the lincoln city festival last month , I asked a fellow flyer to fly my kite and he said " it was all wrong and I did not have enough brake" , he adjusted it , and it flew like a brand new kite, but he said it could use a bit more brake , thats when I learned of the adj. leaders, and he showed me on his kite! He learned this at a clinic in washington , he shared tips with me for a couple of hours and that was awsesome, If he is reading, I thank you again!!! So after the festival and arriving at home I made some leaders right away it flys way better and I can hover now!!!! I was wanting to know if their is a simple test to find the best adjustment ?? or is it all about trial and error, preferance, all of the above? One more thing, does extended handles make a big differance ? I thank you all for your time , and hopefully INPUT!!! thanks windpoacher!!! oops! I should have put this in the adjustments section sorry!!!
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No worries, this is a good section for this kind of thing. :)

==

The B-Series leader comes 7" long (finished/tied length), most fliers who have had a chance to properly understand it are using 8"-9" leaders.

Knots are every 1/2" or so, probably 8 or so of them starting from the end.

Bottom attachments are short, maybe 2"-3" long, just enough to attach really.

==

Settings... Best way I think, is to let the top adjustments all the way out until you can't launch...

Once there, pull it in one knot at a time until you can launch... That'd be about right.

As you become more skilled, you'll find that launch knot will start to be further out, as you deepen your understanding of the kite. :innocent:

==

Extended handles make your inputs stronger on the kite... Some folks do like them, but I find that I simply don't need that much torque on the kite.

On the whole, having the right settings and practicing the essential techniques will take care of pretty much everything, imho.

==

Lots of good info here too...

http://www.learnkites.com

Some of the tutorials are available only to Kitelife subscribers, but you'll find the price is VERY reasonable compared to the material that is available (HD or iPod/iPhone formats).

Sail Loading, Light Wind Flying and Tuning Theory I are all included in that batch of tutorials, many are picture-in-picture (kite/pilot), and each one is highly relevant to the questions you're asking.

==

Last but certainly not least, I think you'll be surprised at the amount of info available here...

http://www.revkites.com/forum

Cheers, glad to have you here. :)

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Once you hit your "sweet spot" as far as leader adjustment is concerned dont forget to challenge yourself once in a while to see if you can go that one knot further.

Made a lot of difference to how happy I feel with my kites when I first understood about leader adjustment.

Still not a good flier, just happier. Need to practice more. :innocent:

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So if my top lines are about 5 7/8" further out than my brakes, that would sound about right?

If I go any further out then flying becomes tough ... just wondering where I fit in with regards to the 'norm'

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So if my top lines are about 5 7/8" further out than my brakes, that would sound about right?

If I go any further out then flying becomes tough ... just wondering where I fit in with regards to the 'norm'

kwmf,

It's great that you talk about the measured difference between your brake and power lines. Many references are to the the "y" knot on the bottom pigtail and the "z" knot on the top pigtail. That makes no sense because pigtails are like snowflakes ... no two are the same! Even straight from the factor difference handle sets will have different knot placements.

I generally start at a six inch differential and adjust from there based on how the kite performs.

Many other variables play a small part, but where you place your hands on the handles will have the greatest affect on pigtail settings. In other postings, John has advocated achieving a balance across your first three fingers. Put pressure on your pointer finger and the kite will move forward. Put pressure on your ring finger and the kite will back up. That mental picture has been the most beneficial for me towards achieving a repeatable feel after changing handles/lines/kites/winds/etc. I check each new setup by putting the kite in a sideways hover, directly downwind, and about ten to fifteen feet off the ground. If the kite will maintain position when the handles are held only by my middle fingers, I smile and go about flying. If the kite moves forward, the the top line moves out a knot. If the kite moves backwards, then the top line comes in a knot.

Cheers,

Tom

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Hi there

I've generally found the numbers useless or confusing other than "my leaders are so long" and "tops longer than bottoms" so I've tried to cross reference that with what I see in videos and pictures since I've had no read reference as to what the 'normal' differential is.

I must add that the 6 inch differential was on new leaders on my full vent. I'm guessing I should be able to go a bit further on a full sail. My top leaders in this case are about 9 1/4 inches from the last knot to the handle clip and the bottom is only 1 1/8 inch.

I understand the tuning theory but had no markers or points of reference to assess where I was. Its well and good explaining the theory, but without markers I've just been guessing ... And without anyone with a good setup for a reference, I'm in the dark.

I like your flight characteristic reference as well, I'm going to give that a go next time out. I have found that I fly better with the bottom 3 fingers forming the grip and the index finger loose as opposed to the other way around. This may be in part due to the fact that I have smaller hands than average so for my thumb to rest where I want it my hand goes higher. It could also likely be due to other training I have in a completely different area that has the bulk of the grip and grip strength on those fingers.

Whatever the case, I feel I fly much better that way and technically I can still apply the 3 finger differential pressure technique.

Steven

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So , with the three finger deal on the handle's, is that with the fingers griping the foam, or above the foam at the very top of the handles, like I see a lot of flyers doing , it must be a prefferance thing??

Either preference, style or an unrefined understanding... Truly, any of the three.

Bottom line, you ever try and sign your name holding the very tippy top of the pen? Leverage is important, correct tuning gives the right balance for 3-finger balance.

FYI, we have this 3-finger technique in the tutorials as well. :innocent:

http://kitelife...body-posture-and-grip-hd-1280x720/

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For me, it feel a lot better with my bottom 3 fingers on the foam - but I have smaller hands and non kite related training that has the grip focus there.

My index finger is is the 'non active' finger instead of the little finger. This is with standard B series handles with the foam as they come from the factory.

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Windpoacher,

I'm Mark. I just read your posts!! I am the guy you met and flew with in Lincoln City! I'm so glad I was of some help to you. So many people have helped me in the short time I've been flying Revs. It was great to see how quickly your flying improved with such a simple adjustment. I love it when something just clicks and now makes sense and I can do something new or better than before. Many of the tips I got at the Rev clinic and a lot of the help on the forum just doesn't make sense in the moment...however... when something works,by design or accident, click! lights on!! makes perfect sense!!At the clinic when Bazzer was teaching a bunch of us newbies how to learn the inverted hover, he had us sliding the kite on the ground left and right, bouncing the kite up and down, He'd yell "Breathe", and "keep your hand down", "lower"!!! I thought; how am I going to learn to hover inverted by doing this??!!?? But when I got home, I bounced, slid left and right on the ground, kept my hands low and lower and tried to breathe at the same time. Low and behold!!! Inverted hover!!! took two days!! So read the forum tips, take the advice from John B. Watch the tutorials, they're really heplful. Do it even if it doesn't make sense...It will eventually!! I'm going to WISKF in August for the week. Hope to see you there.

Mark (RMESM)

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I have just looked at my leaders.

The tops are about as long as the span of the handles, about 11" with 7 knots at about 1" intervals.

The bottoms are about 1.5" with 2 knots one at the end and one about 1" in.

This is pretty much the set up with all my B type handles.

I normaly fly on the 2nd 3rd or 4th knot in on the top giving me between 8.5" and 5.5" (if my maths works out right)of addition to my top flying lines, depending on mood, kite and wind.

My top lines are also a little long on most of my sets due to the additional strain on the top lines whil flying.

I would think that I generaly fly between 9" and 6" longer on the top lines than the bottom.

Hope this helps a bit? I still dont fly too well mind. :innocent: This is just where it feel right for me. It may not feel right for you!!

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Hands down the single most useful thread on leaders after you accept the "tops longer" statement.

My new (third) set of leaders will give me a differential range of 4.5 to 8.5 inches in 0.5 inch increments. My previous 2 attempts will only give me 0.75 and 1 inch resolution with me having to be 1 or 2 knots out from maximum to get near a 6+ inch differential.

I untied 1 knot on the one set and will likely tie the bottoms closer to bring it more in line with what it should be. The other set is so bad its now my sissy leaders for teaching new people if they can't handle tops out - there's nothing I can do to make them long enough and have adjustments

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Windpoacher,

I'm Mark. I just read your posts!! I am the guy you met and flew with in Lincoln City! I'm so glad I was of some help to you. So many people have helped me in the short time I've been flying Revs. It was great to see how quickly your flying improved with such a simple adjustment. I love it when something just clicks and now makes sense and I can do something new or better than before. Many of the tips I got at the Rev clinic and a lot of the help on the forum just doesn't make sense in the moment...however... when something works,by design or accident, click! lights on!! makes perfect sense!!At the clinic when Bazzer was teaching a bunch of us newbies how to learn the inverted hover, he had us sliding the kite on the ground left and right, bouncing the kite up and down, He'd yell "Breathe", and "keep your hand down", "lower"!!! I thought; how am I going to learn to hover inverted by doing this??!!?? But when I got home, I bounced, slid left and right on the ground, kept my hands low and lower and tried to breathe at the same time. Low and behold!!! Inverted hover!!! took two days!! So read the forum tips, take the advice from John B. Watch the tutorials, they're really heplful. Do it even if it doesn't make sense...It will eventually!! I'm going to WISKF in August for the week. Hope to see you there.

Mark (RMESM)

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