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The Flying Wings Yin Yang


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  • 3 weeks later...

Remember, kites hit everyone differently... Until you can test fly it, you never know whether you'll like it.

Example, I've never cared for Prism kites (except for the Quantum Pro) or the Nirvana... However, they have obviously both been very popular for a number of years now.

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A good warning but we can't all be in your shoes John. Test flying would be cool, but not yet an option, so asking anyone and everyone about the kite you're interested in and reading as many reviews as you can find on the kite seems to be the best way to make a smart choice. After reading everything, you can weed out the people who just have a problem with the manufacture and also weed out the people who are such die-hards that they will say no wrong about the kite (Look for comments like every kite in my bag is a BLANK). I don't know about you but I can't count on these people to be real, or unbiased.

A great way to test the kites before you buy them and help others do the same is to join a kite club. CHECK HERE for clubs in your area. Be sure it's not an "Online Club" Like mine is (That's not what you need). We would love to have you, but you need a club with many members in one area. This way if a member owns a kite you are interested in, he might let you fly it and you might do the same for other members some day.

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Mario,

Can you help me out here? First you say:

Test flying would be cool, but not yet an option

And then you say:

A great way to test the kites before you buy them and help others do the same is to join a kite club.

Is test flying an option or not?

Between those you have:

After reading everything, you can weed out the people who just have a problem with the manufacture and also weed out the people who are such die-hards that they will say no wrong about the kite (Look for comments like every kite in my bag is a BLANK). I don't know about you but I can't count on these people to be real, or unbiased.

I don't mind saying that everyone is biased, one way or another. Kites are very subjective things. Features that someone loves are bugs that someone else loathes. I don't have time to read "everything" out there. There's way too much for me to spend a lot of time sifting through it all. For me it's all about how the kite flys in my hands, not what anyone else says.

Through involvement with my local kite shop I can fly just about any kite out there before I buy it. Some I connect with (or they connect with me depending on your perspective) and some I don't. Frankly, nothing anyone writes or says about that particular kite will change the (dis)connection. I have to realize that includes me as well. If someone asks my opinion (and I stress that word) I'm more than happy to give them my impressions. But I also make sure that they understand that my opinions are based on my experiences and their experiences will be different than mine. Not better, not worse, just different.

The contents of my bag are just that: the contents of MY bag. If you think that makes me unreal I take exception to that. If you think it makes me biased you are absolutely correct.

One final thing I have to ask. You state:

Be sure it's not an "Online Club" Like mine is (That's not what you need).

If it's not needed, why have it?

Regards,

Jim

Camas WA

http://www.tksmidair.com

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Very good Jim.

Last quote fist:

Be sure it's not an "Online Club" Like mine is (That's not what you need).

This was directed at one person. My web and entire club is not. We have over 160 members on the msn site and it is going well.

Next up:

After reading everything, you can weed out the people who just have a problem with the manufacture and also weed out the people who are such die-hards that they will say no wrong about the kite (Look for comments like every kite in my bag is a BLANK). I don't know about you but I can't count on these people to be real, or unbiased.

I do with kites as anyone would do before buying anything. I research the kite. The test drive you count on so much can only tell you so much, like how much you like it, or if you like it. Asking around as streetrat did brings a load of information in (Some you didn't count on), but it all helps. You are sometimes directed to threads on forums and other times to websites. There is no need to fish around the net for information on the kite you're interested in.

Now I'm sure everyone knows that what I wrote is not from some holy template (written in stone). They know that it's just Mario. It's just how I do things and I was passing it along. You really didn't have to rip me a new one, but you did do a good job at it.

Next quotes 1+2

Let me clarify:

If you are not in a club and have no affiliation to a kite shop, magazine, or manufacture, you MIGHT have a hard time getting to test fly every kite you want.

Not everyone can be best friends with the owner of a kite shop or two. Not everyone even has a good shop in there area code. I buy all of my kites online.

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Mario,

Please, please, please understand that the following is not an attack.

You said:

I do with kites as anyone would do before buying anything. I research the kite. The test drive you count on so much can only tell you so much, like how much you like it, or if you like it. Asking around as streetrat did brings a load of information in (Some you didn't count on), but it all helps. You are sometimes directed to threads on forums and other times to websites. There is no need to fish around the net for information on the kite you're interested in.

Now I'm sure everyone knows that what I wrote is not from some holy template (written in stone). They know that it's just Mario.

I added the bolding to make my point. No, not all people do research. Many people see kites on the beach and rush to the local shop to buy one. It happens every day and those merchants count on that business. This applies to, in my opinion, everything. People will buy cars, houses, boats, and other big ticket items based solely on looks and/or that first test drive. Is it wise? Probably not, but it DOES happen.

Next, I don't believe that ALL information helps when doing research. A lot of information is irrelevant or without credibility (more on this in a moment).

Finally, you need to be VERY careful when stating "everyone knows". Simply put, there is nothing out there that everyone knows.

So let's shift back to the topic at hand: kite reviews and information. It all comes down to credibility. When I go to a kite maker's web site I expect to find some pretty solid facts such as wing span, weight, wind rating etc. If they review their own products head-to-head with another maker's that impeaches the credibility of their review, not necessarily their product.

When I fly with other people and they endorse or pan a particular kite I ask them why. The most credible thing they can tell me is how well the kite fit their expectations. If they bought a kite and it does everything they thought it could do and more there's a lot of credibility there because they underrated the kite to start. If they tell me they were disappointed because of quality or durability, I can relate to that. If they tell me the kite sucks because it's brand X that has no credibility with me at all.

Information on kites, to me, is valuable when the reviewer can objectively tell me what they did and did not like about the kite. And I don't care what they pack in their bag, even if it's full of Brand Y kites. If the information can be related well and objectively then it's a "good" review regardless of the stance.

Any review (or reviewer, or reviewer of reviews) who flames a kite or review due to subjective reasons has zero credibility with me. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. For instance, if Joe Someone tells me that so-and-so reviewer of Brand Q kite can't be unbiased because their bag is full of Brand Z then the discredit goes to Joe Someone, not the reviewer. If Joe Someone shows me in that same review that there is a bias due to objective reasons I'll give the credit to Joe Someone.

So in closing, I respectfully ask that when you have a strong opinion about something, kites or otherwise, if you choose to relate your experiences distill it down to objective, credible observations. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.

Thanks Mario!

Jim

Camas WA

http://www.tksmidair.com

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LOL... I can see what you're saying here:

I do with kites as anyone would do before buying anything.
I am sure your right about the fact that allot of people just buy "on the spot", but we are here to help right... let's not split too many hairs here as we do this.
it all helps
I really believe that all of the information (good and bad) helps you... ME. I know the good stuff is good, but when I read something without merit, it puts a seal of validation on the good stuff. So it’s all in how you (I… someone) use(s) the information. Like it's been said before "Take it for what it's worth".
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Naturally, the real advantage comes when you have a reliable sense of what each of the people you research with actually prefer for their own flying styles... Then you can read between the lines and know they like certain traits, and just do the math.

I have to second... "if you choose to relate your experiences distill it down to objective, credible observations"

Delivery is everything... Lay down universal facts, then follow up with personal preferences or experiences for context... Much more effective.

I'd like to think I've developed a fair sense of your ultimate intent Mario, and I can dig it... Just looking to tune up the presentation a bit so your information can be better utilized and less often be lost amid "he said, she said" debates.

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John, I learn allot as I go (Thanks to all of you guys) and if it were not for some people rubbing my face in my own words (as I kick and scream), I would not know how much the readers are misunderstanding, or just missing what I am trying to say.

For Example:

Allot of the time when I use the word "you" in a sentence, I really mean "a person". Like below:

You can fly this kite in low wind.

Corrected:

A person can fly this kite in low wind.

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I completely understand... It takes patience, and self-observance.

Remember:

1. Kitefliers are generally a cool bunch.

2. The occasional a**hole is generally best not even responded to.

3. Read each of your own posts before posting, as if you were someone else.

You'll find a comfortable manner, no worries. ;)

.. ..

Sorry to hear about your furry friend... Here at the house we have 3 dogs, 3 cats, 3 ferrets and a snake... I can empathize, and then some!

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Thanks John,

You sure do have a house full. I think that's quite a bit more than I could care for, but every so often we take in an extra pet 'till we find it a home. One dog (Saturn) just keeps finding its way back to us. We not only found it a home. We found the Owner, but the dog keeps coming back to our house. It's so routine now that we don't even need to call the owner when the dog comes to our house. The owner looks here first and the dog will just be sitting out on our porch, or playing in our yard when he gets here.

My three dogs, one cat and two parakeets (With the exception of the cat wanting the birds for a snack), all make a happy home. Tiger is the mid sized pit/chow 6yo

Taco is the terrier/poodle 3yo Spicy is the long hair Chihuahua 1yo Gizmo is the cat that looks like a cow. Luke and Snowball are the birds names and they get attacked every day by Gizmo even though they are hanging from the sealing B)

LOL... I was just thinking how very far off of the subject this thread is going ;)

My WebShots-- Pets Pages

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LOL... I was just thinking how very far off of the subject this thread is going ;)

Not so far off really... That's one of the things I've long enjoyed about the kiting world, growing up in the community from when I started flying at 15 to my current age of 29 has been the coolest part of my life bar none.

Kites are something that somehow, some way, provide fertile ground for a social aspect I have yet to discover in in any consistent amount anywhere else... Something more mutually accepting and encouraging.

If you haven't been to a major kite event yet, take the next chance you get... And leave your six shooters at home, they won't be needed. B)

Our pets:

Dogs are Sinsi (lab/husky), Indy (chow/shepherd) and Capone (boston terrier/chihuahua)...

Cats are Magik (black with white mittens), Khaya (fluffy grey) and Kozmo (black/white with one green eye and one blue eye)...

Ferrets are Podo, Kodo and Ono...

Snake is Sam.

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I like your pets names, they are very cool. I can just hear you calling your ferret 0no as it uses the lamp to leap over to the drapes.

I am trying everything I can to get down to the Kite Party just for Saturday. It could be looking good for me if the weather is bad. It might be allot easier to get someone from Big Bear to spend the day at the beach if they have another cold grey weekend to look forward to up here.

Don't get me wrong I know full well that the beach can be quite cool too, but not bone chilling.

It would be a day in the sun for us no matter what. ;)

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You have the mental picture of Ono just right. He is the last ferret that we got and after yelling at the other two, I swore that would be the name of the third one. The other two are from Beastmaster, and of course the albino is Kodo.

Hope all works out for you for Kite Party, I am not going to be able to make it this year, but I am certain that John will have lots of stories upon his return.

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Moon Kushner, Thank you for the well wishes. If I happen not to make it to the Kite Party, I will be sure to do the next best thing and read John’s view of the event.

About 0no… I only know about ferrets, but I was reminded of my cat Gizmo when I seen the name 0no. Gizmo darts trough our house like a rocket, pouncing things, ricocheting off of things, jumping on us, running though the kitchen and sliding into the back door (Smack!)

John, Sounds like a very cool bunch to work with and a great place to live. You have built a good thing here (I’m sure you know) and I don’t think it's expressed enough… I for one really appreciate KiteLife ;)

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Moon Kushner, Thank you for the well wishes. If I happen not to make it to the Kite Party, I will be sure to do the next best thing and read John’s view of the event.

We'll have a heck of a report too... I plan on shooting TONS of photos, usually 900-1,000 at an event like this, and a full size article.

John, Sounds like a very cool bunch to work with and a great place to live. You have built a good thing here (I’m sure you know) and I don’t think it's expressed enough… I for one really appreciate KiteLife ;)

Thank you very much Mario... I took over Kitelife beginning with issue 28, and have really worked hard to always be growing "outside of the box"... Striving for more.

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I look forward to reading it John. I hoped to write up something also (an amateur view of the Kite Party event), but I will just have to make it about that one day. I hope I can use all of the 39 pictures possible with my camera. I can get just over 100 shots, but at only 1.1MP. B)

John, I have to admit, I have not done my research and I don't know when issue 28 came out, but I do remember my first E-mails to KiteLife. I knew from that point on that this magazine had someone running it who was willing to go above and beyond simply what is needed to get the job done. I'm sure you know who that guy is... Right John ;)

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