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Making Your Own Kite Lines (How do you do that?)


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  • 2 weeks later...

Nope, line still on back order!! kid_brooding.gif Glad your measurements worked out so closely!! smile.gif Nice thing - weather allows me to pick from the linesets I already have!!! kid_smartass.gif

Update - line now in stock!! Mine is on the way!!!! I'll post in when I make up some sets!!!smile.gif

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Nope, line still on back order!! kid_brooding.gif Glad your measurements worked out so closely!! smile.gif Nice thing - weather allows me to pick from the linesets I already have!!! kid_smartass.gif

Update - line now in stock!! Mine is on the way!!!! I'll post in when I make up some sets!!!smile.gif

No problem....no rush.......! :)

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Ok, here goes: Made up a set of 120'x50# lines! Luckily I had a set of 90# to go by, so I strung out the 90# and got a length. Added 18" for the 15" sleeves and knots and away I went. Now the only thing I do differently from Reef Runner is I don't tie knots in my sleeving to attach it to the line. I prefer to leave it loose, tight and stretched, but loose, then tie my loop knots in. I do this to eliminate 2 knots that I would have to undo if I needed to equalize the lines! Sorry, but I've had a stroke and my fine motor skills are eroding! Anyway ran out 4 equal lengths and cut, looped all 4 lines on 1 end, double knots and all, so 1 end is finished. Went up to the other end and sleeved that end, but only put 1 knot in. Since I had done the first end completely, I could stake them and use that to stretch the lines (eliminate the creep)! After a good stretch, I checked and equalized the lines and finished by tying in both knots! Do pay attention to how those knots lay, no twists or you'll end up with slipping! I haven't equalized them again after flying, only used them once and time didn't permit, but I was able to use several different sails to stretch (creep) the lines! So the next time I use them, they'll get checked and usually after that they're good to go!! I've used this system for a long time, never thinking of the "how to" aspect, these came out within a couple of inches of the desired length!! And that works for mesmile.gif

PS: To help me keep everything straight on setup and breakdown, I color code my right and left lines by using a Sharpie. I use red for the right and black for the left, tops get a short marking at the knots on the sleeves, bottoms are colored all the length of the sleeves! Keeps me straight during setup, so I hook the correct line to the correct bridle point! I even color code my handles for the same reason! Don't want to confuse my "limited" brain!! kid_devlish.gif

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Hey Wayne, GREAT - Whatever works, for sure. I'm just glad to see someone else posting and sharing information. :)

So basically, you just used an already "known length of line", rather than a tape measure, to get your base length ?

Then you added 15" for the sleeving, plus and additional 3 inches, for the knots, where I add 15" for the sleeving, plus 6 inches for knots. That makes perfect sense, seeing as you are tying, four less knots, than I do. I think a lot of people would be surprised at just how much line is used up, just by the knots. I believe you said that you tie "only" two overhand knots, in the sleeved portion, to form the final loop?

Ok, and I'll assume from you color coding scheme, that you are using the same color sleeving on both top & bottom, but you end up marking the full length of the sleeving, on the bottoms (red for right - black for left), but on the top just a short red and black mark, on the sleeving ?

Interesting that you mark your handles. Just the other week, "nckiter" and I were talking about that very thing (he doesn't - I do). Then we got to discussing the many different methods that people utilize, to color code lines, sleeving, etc. Whatever it takes, to make for a smooth set-up, that's what I say, and I'm definitely all for it.

As for my handles, I spray paint the lower section of the stainless rod, RED, to signify right. Nothing special, I just cover the grip with a piece of newspaper and scotch tape, then I remove the lower rubber end cap, and just do a quick spray on that lower end. I leave the left handle stock (as is). As you say, it gives me a defined procedure to follow, when I set up. I've seen others simply apply a piece of colored tape on the lower section of one handle. Again, whatever works.

As for my line color coding, I use yellow sleeving for my top lines (yellow, sunshine, up), and pink for the bottoms, so that's not a problem. But I do ID my RIGHT lines, by marking a 2" section of the (spectra) line, with a RED Sharpie, about 2" out from the sleeving. I do this on both of the right lines (the yellow top and the pink bottom), on both the handle & the kite ends. Again, this gives me something to identify with, and a definite procedure to follow, as I set up.....but most importantly, as you said, it give me something to keep me straight. And I hate to admit it, but I will still, on occasion, mess up, but I usually catch it on the final check, before take off.............. :lol: :lol: :lol:

ps.........I flew on my new 80' set yesterday. Believe it or not, as John says, three minutes out, three minutes in..........no sweat. But you know, with all the coding that we are using, if you're half way paying attention, it's really pretty easy...............

thanks for contributing to the topic.......:P

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Yes, I do only tie 2 knots to form the loop, and I do color code my lines the way you stated, red for right, black for left!! Full colored sleeves on the bottom, short color mark on the sleeves for the tops!! smile.gif Some of my handles have two different color leaders, the other leaders that I made myself, I code them just like the lines, red and black! And I did use another set to establish the length! The only other thing that I do to keep from having any problems, (and I'm sure I'll get some s***t for this), is that I wind my lines as a pair separately! By that I mean I wind the lefts as a pair, then the rights together! Only reason I do this is that it has kept me from having any tangles since I started this!! Means 1 more trip up and down, but if it keeps out the tangles, then I call it time well spent!!smile.gif Sorry, I haven't the guts to try winding all 4 at once, had too many problems in the past!!wacko.gif

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Everybody's got their own system, so again, whatever works. I definitely had problems winding and unwinding, when I first began, but I finally got it nearly figured out (nearly). I was pretty much right-on, except for having the reasoning part, embedded in my head. What I mean, is that I was doing it kinda right, but I was never really sure, and there was some variation in how I accomplished the wind up. That variation, made for some easy unwinds, and for some not so easy unwinds, but I never really understood why. For some reason, I just couldn't get the system down, and repeat it exactly, every time.

Well, I'll have to give it to JB. That was just about the time, that he put out his tutorial series, in particular, "Line Management". Once I watched that video, several times, got the process and the reasoning behind it clearly embedded in my mind, I've never looked back, and never had another problem. I do it exactly as JB describes in the video, and as he says, 3 minutes out, 3 minutes in. The things in that video, that made it work for me, was learning to always land in the inverted position, always stake the handles at the top, and always wind the lines, from the kite, back to the handles. This basically puts the upper and lower lines, in the correct positions, relative to each other, so the looping of top line to bottom line, and bottom line to top line, occurs more naturally. Again, the thing that begins to "make you think it isn't working", is when the upper and lower lines, begin to become, un-equalized in length, allowing one line to sag below the other. But still, even that doesn't really change anything, other than how neatly the lines wind onto the winder. It all pulls right out, when you unwind it, and separate the left pair from the right pair, and give them a pull or two

As for that un-equalization, I notice that this occurs, due to the upper lines tending to stretch, a bit more than the lower lines, after several uses, or after a day of heavy wind. As I mentioned previously, this un-equalization, does tend to make the wind-up / wind-out process, a bit more cumbersome, simply because of the differences in upper and lower lengths. When this begins to occur, to the point that it becomes bothersome, that's usually my que, to reverse my lines. By this I mean, that I switch, and begin using the the bottom lines on the top, and and the top lines to the bottom, and use them that way for several flights (this is also a good time to reverse ends to equalize line abraision). Then, after a few flights, like magic, they seem to equalize themselves again, and the wind-up / wind-out process, smooths right back out.............

Now, this equalization, is NOT, the same equalization, that requires untying & retying the sleeving, for me, anyway. If the variation is from top to bottom, then I just switch line positions, and let "nature take it's course", however, if the variation is from left to right, that's a whole nother ball game, and a whole nother JB tutorial (another subject).

Well, that's just my $.02 on this subject.......................tongue.gif

Oh, BTW, thanks JB, for those excellent explanations, that I refer to, so often !! :)

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Cuw3vBD50hs (Line Management)

(Line Equalization)
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My pleasure Nick. :)

Thanks to you, Wayne, Duane and Pete for this wonderfully detailed and thorough discussion on making and equalizing lines!

Such rich content, with so much pictorial, I've pinned the topic for others to find more easily. :P

Keep it coming my kite-kin!

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Well here I go again!!! Just got through making my light 120' set and today a dog runs through my lines, turning it into a BIG MESS!! kid_brooding.gifcensored.gifTook me almost 2 hours to straighten them out with only 1 overhand knot in 1 line! kid_brooding.gifcensored.gifNot sure where it falls on the length, I'll check and see if it can make up 1 of the other sets I had planned!! Crappy end to a beautiful day!!!kid_horny.gif

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Unless the knot is extremely close to the end, you may be able to make TWO linesets out of this. If you have never intended to make a short (10-30 feet - I've heard of as short as 8) lineset, you now may discover some of the interesting things you can do with them. Maybe it's time to try some indoor techniques. Short linesets are good for learning catch-and-toss outdoors, as well.

The worst might be if the knot was almost exactly in the middle of the line; then you would end up with two identical linesets. Even that carries some sunshine with it. Next time you meet up with another Rev flyer, you can experiment with team flying on 45-50' linesets. Might be interesting.

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Well here I go again!!! Just got through making my light 120' set and today a dog runs through my lines, turning it into a BIG MESS!! censored.gifTook me almost 2 hours to straighten them out with only 1 overhand knot in 1 line! censored.gifNot sure where it falls on the length, I'll check and see if it can make up 1 of the other sets I had planned!! Crappy end to a beautiful day!!!kid_horny.gif

Do you mean, that "after the dog", and "after you finally got the 120' set untangled", that you had one knot left in one of the lines, that you couldn't get untied, OR, did you mean that you had to tie one knot, in one of the lines, to put it back together confused_1.gif

Not real clear on your exact outcome, here, but neither sounded great..................

Oh, BTW, how is the dog doing this morning ? :sly:

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One additional note: When you get a tangle like that, remember this - the ONLY way an overhand knot can be formed is if a line-end goes through a loop.

(I know a 'magic' trick that involves putting a line end through a bunch of loops simultaneously, and then pulling on the end and forming a series of perfectly spaced overhand knots - like 'magic'.)

When you pick up the tangled lines (in a bundle, or maybe wound around a winder or something else) KEEP TRACK OF THE ENDS. Before bundling/wrapping attach the kite ends to something. Cut slits in a piece of cardboard; larks-head them to a twig; anything. Do the same at the handle end. Then don't let the ends get near the bundle/windup or each other. If you drop the whole mess in a box, hang the end-clusters out on opposite sides.

When you get home and start to untangle things NEVER let yourself be tempted to pull an end through the tangle. THAT IS PUTTING AN END THROUGH A LOOP! IT IS HOW KNOTS ARE CREATED. That tangle was NOT made by putting the kite or the handles through loops; it was made by putting loops through loops, and that is how it should be untangled. Gently, never pulling anything tight, begin backing loops out of the tangle. As you free up line, begin moving the kite-ends (still hooked together) and the handle ends (still hooked together) farther and farther away from each other.

You will end up with the lines stretched out with some wraps (wrapped pairs and 4-line wraps) in them. NOW you can separate one set of ends and begin removing the wraps. There will be no knots; I promise.

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One additional note: When you get a tangle like that, remember this - the ONLY way an overhand knot can be formed is if a line-end goes through a loop.

There will be no knots; I promise.

Hey Pete, I couldn't have put it better myself............

TRULY - WORDS of EXPERIENCE !!!! :sly:

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Well, it's 1 overhand knot in one line!! Sorry Pete, I was alone facing that mess and my eyes and fingers just aren't what they used to be!! But I get your point that the apparent knots are just loops through loops through more loops!! Was able to worm out 1 pair fairly easy, but the other was a pain! Kept working at it and thought I had it licked! Found the knot as I was making sure the lines were straight and untangled!! My son has offered to look at it, hope it will come out!! If not, hopefully they make into a set I was going to make anyway!! What are the chances that happens??

PS: I won't even express how I feel about that dog! !censored.gif Nuff said?

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It is perhaps not completely fair to say there can NEVER be knots in a tangle.

If one or both handles are yanked out of your hands or pulled off the ground-stake, they can get bounced through loops.

If you never pull the tangle up tight, these can be removed in the last stage when you are removing the wraps. They will be double-overhand knots, since two ends go through a loop (or loops) together.

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I know what you mean about eyes and fingers. Quite a few years ago I confidently disassembled a wind-up alarm clock (of the Big-Ben variety, if you remember them). All I had was my Swiss Army knife (big one, with tweezers, tiny screw-driver, magnifying glass and all that stuff).

It was hanging up at a certain time of day and I was certain there was a 'ding' on one of the gears, or a slightly bent shaft.

Well, I had all the gears in a row, had a look with the glass and found the problem and fixed it (a burr on one of the gears, as I thought; a tweak with the knife-blade cleaned it up.)

When I began to re-assemble, I realized that I could neither see the pieces (either too close and blurry, or too far away and too small to see) nor the places where they were supposed to go. AND I couldn't hold them still enough to feel them into place.

Now these clocks are not rocket-science; I have been taking them apart and putting them back together since I was seven or eight years old. It was a REAL SHOCK to discover that I could no longer do this without some special tools and optics. And, if anything, my eyes and fingers are worse today than they were 20 years ago. I can still do things like this, but it takes a lot of tweezers, picks and a rig like this:

post-5920-0-76085800-1303738214_thumb.jp

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After my stroke, the vision was never the same!!kid_brooding.gif Without my glasses, I'd see double!! At least they ground my glasses to give me 1 image, but each eye sees things at a different depth!!kid_brooding.gif The finger thing is just a product of age, I can live with that!! Things like pick knots for easy adjustment, breakdown. stuff I've adapted!!! But a knot - I've got almost no shot at that!! Too d##n small!!! Only reason I found it was because I felt it!!sly.gif

I am getting over the dog, RR, just hoping my son can get the knot out!! confused_1.gif

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I am getting over the dog, RR, just hoping my son can get the knot out!! confused_1.gif

I'm glad it wasn't any worse, than it was. I wonder how often that kind of problem occurs? Dogs have always been one of my biggest fears (so far as kites go), especially when flying in some of the parks, here on the lake, as well as on coast. Lot's of people bring their dogs out, and many are allowed to run free, even though they are supposed to be leashed. The dog doesn't know any better, it's the owner that is responsible, as I'm sure you know, but the end results, I can only imagine, aren't pretty. I did have a close call, one time, when I had left a rev staked out, just for a few minutes, to go get a drink of water. Just as I was about, back at the handles, I caught a glimpse of this large big dog running directly across my flying area. Luckily, I was able to grab up the handles and launch the kite, just seconds before a catastrophe, would have surely occurred. I don't think the dog ever saw the lines, as they nearly grazed his nose on the way up. He was concentrating on someone, or something, on the other side of the field. Had he been a few seconds earlier, he'd have probably taken my lines, rev, and all. I can only imagine........:sly:

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I agree, it's not the dog's fault!!! If I'd heard even one try at calling the dog, I'd be a little more understanding, but I felt like the owner thought it was great fun, the dog chasing the kite in the air!!! I'd switched earlier from my SUL to a mid-vent, then the wind started to die and next thing he's standing over my kite!! If I still had the SUL on, none of this would have happened, I'd a just flown over his head!! Then he compounded things be running through the lines a couple of times! Here I was trying to chase him off and he thinks I'm playing!! He finally left when his owner started to walk to the car, otherwise he'd kept up running through!!! I hope talking about it is good therapy, my memories are censored.gif!!!!!

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Just the sail - $225.00!!! Frame - Race rods - $100.00!!! Lines I made - $40.00 my cost + time to make - priceless! kid_devlish.gif Just glad the damage wasn't worse!!!wacko.gif Now to try and get that knot out!!! smile.gif

Well, I wish I could help you. I've untied some real messes, over the past few years, and most of them weren't even mine............... You've just got to get it under some magnification, as Pete mentioned, and then carefully pick it out. I have a very small (3") pair of "short nosed", needle nose pliers, that I keep in my kite box, just for those stubborn knots. You just have to be very careful, not to rip or tear any of the individual fibers, within the piece of line. You can grab it, but you don't want it to slip. That's what tears the fibers. Delicate work, to say the least!

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