Making Your Own Kite Lines (How do you do that?)

[Wayne Dowler]

Well Holy , I got that knot out!!!! Took a needle to it and created an opening, replaced the needle with a safety pin, then used the needle some more to finish opening up the knot!! Got it down to the correct end and NO MORE KNOT!! Now to see if I created a weak spot, hope not, didn't pull it too tight or break any strands using the needle!!! WHEW!!!

Lets the dog off the hook!!!

I need to buy a lottery ticket!!!

[Reef Runner]

Well Holy , I got that knot out!!!!

Eureka !

[--Pete]

Knot out? Good job! Needles are good, especially to give you some "elbow room" without breaking fibers.

Discarded dental picks (not scrapers, but the really thin ones - ask your dentist to save you one or two) are almost as good, but tend to have funny shapes.

If you have a set of really small drills, you can mount a needle in the end of a dowel to make a permanent tool, but be sure to make a cap for it. A mounted needle can really jab you if it has a handle to back it up.

[Wayne Dowler]

Me, I'm for not getting anymore KNOTS!!!!

[--Pete]

Me, I'm for not getting anymore KNOTS!!!!

An even BETTER solution. Wish I'd thought of it.

[SkyHook]

Wayne,

I am real glad you got the knot out of that line. I heard there is an ultrasonic dog repeller whistle out there that is supposed to work up to 300 yards. Maybe you should get one.

I am going to put my 2 cents in on lines and sleeving before this topic dies.

SLEEVING - My preference is to cut off a piece of sleeving that is long enough to have a finished open loop at the end of my lines which is about 6 inches long That does not include the knotted area. WHY??? Years ago, I wanted to make myself a set of lines. Really didn't have any sleeving but I found something around the house I could use. It was a larger diameter and I had a limited supply. I used it. It worked fine except I ended up with very short loops. Well, I cussed myself every time I used that line because there was barely enough loop to fold over to attach to the bridle of the kite and I struggled with it.. I will never do that again. It's obvious but the thicker or larger diameter the sleeving , the larger the knots are and you will need a longer sleeve.

MAKING THE LINES – Assuming quad lines and using real small diameter sleeving , I cut 8 pieces of sleeving at 17 inches long which should leave me approximately 6 inch finished open loops. Don't quote me on this!! I start by stringing on one piece of sleeving before I measure any lines out. I leave a very small amount of line sticking out the sleeving and burn it. I then tie a knot in the end of the sleeving (1/8 to ¼ inch from the end . I stretch the sleeving out and tie another knot in the other end of the sleeving. Then I tie two overhand knots in the doubled sleeving pushing the knots down close to the first knots.

I cut a 1 foot piece off of a 2X2 piece of wood. I hammered 4 nails in the center of it on one surface about an inch apart. I attach the 2X2 to my bench in my garage. I attach my first loop to a nail on the 2X2. I have a 100 ft tape measure that I attach to another nail on the 2X2. With line and tape measure , I head out the door of the garage and out the driveway. Sound familiar? Assuming a target of 80 ft of line, I am going to add 10 inches to the length of line.( half of one length of sleeving plus 1.5 inches). So, I measure out 80 foot 10 inches of line, stretch it some, mark it, and cut it. The next line I do the same way except I use the first line length as a guide instead of the measuring tape. When all lines are measured , I put on the other four pieces of sleeving out in the driveway.

When all lines are done, I attach all four lines to the four nails in the garage. I run a long screwdriver through all four loops at the other end and pull to stretch all at the same time. It becomes obvious which lines are longer by the difference in sag when you release the line tension. Then I make some adjustments. One good thing about starting out with a long open loop is you can just add an additional knot if one line is a little longer than the rest.

Bruce

[Reef Runner]

Hey Bruce, Thanks for contributing, and yes, much of that does indeed sound familiar, especially the part about attaching things to the workbench, and heading out the door, down the driveway. I followed everything, except measuring out the 90"...........I may have missed something , I'll go back and read that again.......

[SkyHook]

Hey Bruce, Thanks for contributing, and yes, much of that does indeed sound familiar, especially the part about attaching things to the workbench, and heading out the door, down the driveway. I followed everything, except measuring out the 90"...........I may have missed something , I'll go back and read that again.......

Nick,

I certainly understand the confusion since I wrote it wrong. Should be 80 feet 10 inches

I added 10 inches to the target line length of 80 foot to be used up in half the loop and 4 knots on one 17 inch piece of sleeving only. I didn't have to add any more line for the sleeving at the other end. That sleeving was already on the other end of the line looped and all knots done. I was measuring the total length of the line with the first completed loop on the nail.

Bruce

[Reef Runner]

Hey Bruce, Thanks for contributing, and yes, much of that does indeed sound familiar, especially the part about attaching things to the workbench, and heading out the door, down the driveway. I followed everything, except measuring out the 90"...........I may have missed something , I'll go back and read that again.......

Nick,

I certainly understand the confusion since I wrote it wrong. Should be 80 feet 10 inches

I added 10 inches to the target line length of 80 foot to be used up in half the loop and 4 knots on one 17 inch piece of sleeving only. I didn't have to add any more line for the sleeving at the other end. That sleeving was already on the other end of the line looped and all knots done. I was measuring the total length of the line with the first completed loop on the nail.

Bruce

Hey Bruce, No problem, I understood the mechanics of what you were saying perfectly (one loop was already completed, etc), it was just the 90" part, that I suspected was a typo ! Thanks for correcting that. My brain takes a vacation, every once in a while, also

Your procedure, even though you go about it a bit differently than I do, seems very similar, and yields very similar results. Bottom line, we are both adding the same number of knots to the sleeving, but it appears that I am allowing for an additional 3" of raw line, in my procedure. As I understand your procedure (regardless of the predetermined length), you are adding to that predetermined length, one length of sleeving (17"), plus 3" for the knots (overall), whereas, in my procedure, I am adding one length of sleeving, plus 6" for the knots (overall). However, as you actually perform your procedure, you are adding only half of that (sleeving + 3") amount, to the second end, because you have already made the first loop, correct ? In my case, I am cutting the full length of raw line, prior to making either loop, hence, I add the entire length of sleeving, plus my extra for the knots, to the predetermined length. Our differences on the amount to leave for the knots, is probably due to the sleeving itself. My sleeving may be a bit fatter, than what you are using, but still, we are talking about only a 3" difference, overall, which when doubled into the loops, cuts that difference in half. I'd say we are pretty much together on this thing.............

I find it very interesting, to compare the different ways, that we each go about measuring and putting together these sets of lines. Everyone has their own personal procedure, which is somewhat unique to the individual, yet most all of us, yield basically, the same results. That was the whole point of this topic, to get individuals to put into writing, their processes & procedures. Again, I thank you for joining in......... I would have given anything, to have all this information, the first time I attempted to make a set of lines.............

[SkyHook]

Hey Bruce, Thanks for contributing, and yes, much of that does indeed sound familiar, especially the part about attaching things to the workbench, and heading out the door, down the driveway. I followed everything, except measuring out the 90"...........I may have missed something , I'll go back and read that again.......

Nick,

I certainly understand the confusion since I wrote it wrong. Should be 80 feet 10 inches

I added 10 inches to the target line length of 80 foot to be used up in half the loop and 4 knots on one 17 inch piece of sleeving only. I didn't have to add any more line for the sleeving at the other end. That sleeving was already on the other end of the line looped and all knots done. I was measuring the total length of the line with the first completed loop on the nail.

Bruce

Hey Bruce, No problem, I understood the mechanics of what you were saying perfectly (one loop was already completed, etc), it was just the 90" part, that I suspected was a typo ! Thanks for correcting that. My brain takes a vacation, every once in a while, also

Your procedure, even though you go about it a bit differently than I do, seems very similar, and yields very similar results. Bottom line, we are both adding the same number of knots to the sleeving, but it appears that I am allowing for an additional 3" of raw line, in my procedure. As I understand your procedure (regardless of the predetermined length), you are adding to that predetermined length, one length of sleeving (17"), plus 3" for the knots (overall), whereas, in my procedure, I am adding one length of sleeving, plus 6" for the knots (overall). However, as you actually perform your procedure, you are adding only half of that (sleeving + 3") amount, to the second end, because you have already made the first loop, correct ? In my case, I am cutting the full length of raw line, prior to making either loop, hence, I add the entire length of sleeving, plus my extra for the knots, to the predetermined length. Our differences on the amount to leave for the knots, is probably due to the sleeving itself. My sleeving may be a bit fatter, than what you are using, but still, we are talking about only a 3" difference, overall, which when doubled into the loops, cuts that difference in half. I'd say we are pretty much together on this thing.............

I find it very interesting, to compare the different ways, that we each go about measuring and putting together these sets of lines. Everyone has their own personal procedure, which is somewhat unique to the individual, yet most all of us, yield basically, the same results. That was the whole point of this topic, to get individuals to put into writing, their processes & procedures. Again, I thank you for joining in......... I would have given anything, to have all this information, the first time I attempted to make a set of lines.............

Nick,

What I posted on making the lines was out of memory as it has been a few months since I put together the last set of lines. I believe I have the numbers correct but I don't think I measured that set of completed lines to see how close they were to target length . And yes, the sleeving I used on that set was very small.

A couple of things I neglected to write on the original post. 1. My sleeving tool snapped so I am down to threading a needle with line. I work the needle through the sleeving backwards. The pointed tip of the needle tends to sneak out of the sleeving if you try to pull it through tip first.

2. I do use a black marker for bottom line identification marking at least part if not all of the sleeving loop on both ends of two lines. I haven't used any color coding to identify right from left as of yet but probably will apply some red to one handle from each handle set in the future.

Thanks for starting this topic. Hopefully, a few more people will add something.

I hear some people do not use sleeving at all on their lines without issues. I remember reading something somewhere about how easy it is to adjust the line length the way some people knot it. Like to hear more about that.

Bruce

[--Pete]

...My sleeving tool snapped...

You don't really need a commercially-made sleeving needle. Any fine wire, bent into a long narrow loop will work. I strip a length of #22 to #26 gauge copper wire from a bit of telephone or computer-network cable when I'm not near my regular set of kite tools. It doesn't really have to be as stiff as the steel music wire usually made into sleeving needles.

[SkyHook]

...My sleeving tool snapped...

You don't really need a commercially-made sleeving needle. Any fine wire, bent into a long narrow loop will work. I strip a length of #22 to #26 gauge copper wire from a bit of telephone or computer-network cable when I'm not near my regular set of kite tools. It doesn't really have to be as stiff as the steel music wire usually made into sleeving needles.

Hey Pete,

Thanks for the tip.

I have some telephone wire and probably network cable too. I will give that a shot next time I sleeve some line. I knew there was a reason I should have kept that guitar. For the strings.

Bruce

[Reef Runner]

Another good substitute is a roll of florist wire. You can find it at most any hobby shop, or even at "Wally World". It's usually on a roll, about 3" - 4" in diameter, with a self cutter, and it's cheap as dirt. Just pull off about 2 feet, double it and press the bend together tightly, to form the nose (eye) of the tool, and start threading. Just another cheap alternative, and it's disposable

[--Pete]

...and it's disposable

Oh, yeah - disposable. Maybe that's why I couldn't find an old "ad hoc" sleeving needle to photograph. They were all disposed of after use.

[--Pete]

Concerning detangling:

While reading this topic and a similar one on the rev forum, it occurred to me that advice to not LET kite lines get tangled doesn't give much help to someone searching out these topics AFTER they have found themselves with a mare's nest.

If you have a ball of horribly tangled line sitting in front of you, here is a tool that may help if you actually have to pull ends out of loops (untie knots that have not been drawn up tight, or that have already been loosened with needles or dental picks).

It is called a Netting Needle, and they can be carved out of a bit of thin, flat wood, or purchased commercially. A good size for detangling kite-line would be about 1/2 to one inch wide (12-25 mm) and 10-12 inches long (25-30 cm). Since much kiting is done near a coast, a Marine supply , especially one catering to commercial fishermen) will likely have these in stock. Also online; google { netting needle }.

Normally, you load it up with line and use it to move a bunch of line quickly through the meshes of the net as you tie the knots at the intersections. For detangling kite lines, you would lark's-head the end of the line to the center pin and push the needle through the tangle BACK ALONGSIDE the line you have attached to it. When you get a few feet of free line, you wind it onto the netting needle: from the pin you pass the line through the U and up the other side; then slip a loop over the pin; and back down through the U; up the other side; and so on. This solves the problem caused when you are pulling a long free end through the tangle and it pulls some OTHER loop tight. Passing the netting needle through the tangle should actually help keep it loose. You can get very fast with this.

[Wayne Dowler]

Looks like a great idea, Pete!! Thanks for sharing!!

[Reef Runner]

Hey Pete,

Have you been hanging out in the wine cellar again..............

When are you going to share your, "no-measure, tunnel method", with the rest of us ?

[--Pete]

Spent all afternoon in the wine cellar. Discovered I had drunk (with some help from my friends) nearly 500 bottles of wine since my last "hard" (actually look at each bottle and compare it to the list) inventory.

Still there are about that many bottles left, PLUS the 20 or so cases that I now have to add to the inventory. (I've been slacking on data entry for a while.)

And I'm still slacking on getting my line making underway. I have most of the materials, but haven't laid out exactly how to put everything in a logical order, get it properly photographed, and posted.

[Reef Runner]

Spent all afternoon in the wine cellar. Discovered I had drunk (with some help from my friends) nearly 500 bottles of wine since my last "hard" (actually look at each bottle and compare it to the list) inventory.

Still there are about that many bottles left, PLUS the 20 or so cases that I now have to add to the inventory. (I've been slacking on data entry for a while.)

And I'm still slacking on getting my line making underway. I have most of the materials, but haven't laid out exactly how to put everything in a logical order, get it properly photographed, and posted.

500 bottles of wine on the wall, 500 bottles of wine, take one down, swirl it around,....yikes....500 bottles.........gone ?

Well - I suppose I'd be having problems putting things into logical order, too !

[Wayne Dowler]

ROFL!!!!!

[--Pete]

Well, sometimes you just relax:

...and sometimes you have to get serious:

[Reef Runner]

Well, I vote for the relaxed Pete !

[--Pete]

There were either seven of us and six wines, or six of us and seven wines. At any rate there were 42 glasses on that table.

I had brought a Seghesio Omaggio, which I think is one of the world's best Cal-Ital wines, but it was blown away by a Caymus Cab.

This is a loose and shifting gang of guys who like wine, and have some serious wines in their cellars. We get together every year or so, and try to impress each other. Sometimes we get to taste some pretty great wines.

We hope to have another meet this summer. I HAVE to get my cellar organized and find a serious bottle to bring.

BTW, anyone who is interested: I have my cellar inventoried at cellartracker.com as user "pwm". You can have a look if you are interested in (mostly) northern Italian red wines. (And a few Ports and Rhone blends.)

I'll bring a few interesting bottles to Grand Haven. (Just to keep the topic having SOMETHING to do with kites.)

[Wayne Dowler]

Just as long as you're not drinking and flying!!!

[--Pete]

Just as long as you're not drinking and flying!!!

Of course not. You need both hands to fly a Rev. You must land the kite to drink. Then you can fly again.