Making Your Own Kite Lines (How do you do that?)

[mystainedskin]

Once your first end is sleeved ..I begin the stretch. This gives you a point to attach to something.A little tug after knot are formed and final good pull once done all together for final equalization.

[mtgrizzly52]

Thank you Scott for the information. I kind of thought that was how it was done, but wanted to make sure.

Rick (mtgrizzly52)

[Reef Runner]

1. So I understand you have to cut your lines longer than the desired results (by the way Reef Runner would it be possible to get your excel spreadsheet on line set lengths?)

'

Sure, just PM me with your questions, and an email address, and I will be more than happy to share the Excel sheet, if you still want it........nick

[mystainedskin]

.....and be gentle with the 50# when pulling individual strands. The limit is reached quite easily and it sucks starting over. I have even popped a 50# on the final stretch before i just use a subtle lean into it in the final...doing knot tightening I just give a good pull by hand without any body weight behind it.

[Wayne Dowler]

Sleeve one end, tie the loop, then stretch! I found that using a luggage scale works well and can give you even stretch by using the same "weight"! Then give them a good final stretch by flying them in slightly overpowered conditions, (I like to hook them up to my Rev 1), then check and adjust! Remember to check them occasionally, as most are either right or left handed and tend to stretch that side more!!

Making your own lines is cheaper, just an investment of time needed!

[Tmadz]

Stretching is easy, but even the best lines can stretch about 2%. On 120' lines (plus extra for loops and knots) that can be over 2 feet! Don't cut them too short otherwise you're just wasting line. I cut mine a foot shorter than I need and then stretch.Does anyone else do it differently? Once you make the first set, you'll realize that it's incredibly easy. You'l have plenty of sets in no time for just the materials cost.

[Jeepster]

Here's a posting I made several years ago on the Rev forum about stretch and creep that is still valid:

.................................

Point of order: Our flying line exhibits both stretch and creep. Since it's a form of plastic, the fibers/weave will permanently yield under load ... ie take a set and not return to its original length ... that's creep. In addition to creep, the line will elongate under load and return to it's original length when the load is removed ... that's stretch and can't be removed.

Said another way: When the line is new, you can pull on it with an increasing load and it will elongate in proportion to the load. However, when the load is removed, the line will not return to it's "off the spool" length. That's creep, and that's what we're trying to remove from new line when making a line set.

If you make up the individual lines independent of each other and don't use a scale to induce the same loads in each line, then you'll have various levels of creep in each line. That will mean lots of adjustment after you've flown for awhile. The alternative is to pair up the upper lines and the lower lines. Remove double the length of the line set off a spool (plus enough extra for all four loops.) Sleeve both ends. Place the loops over a stake/nail/post and stretch out the doubled over line. Place a carabiner (or a pulley if you're also a SLK guy) at the doubled back point and load it up. Since the sleeves/knots reduce the breaking strength by about a third, your 90# line will now break at about 60# of load. But, since the line is doubled, you can pull with 120# of force before the line will theoretically break. Pull and tug away with abandon ... tugging does seem to assist in increasing the creep. The closer you get to the breaking strength the less post-flying adjustment will be needed.

Now measure the line length plus one times the amount for your loops (don't forget an additional 1/2 inch for each knot you place in the sleeving.) Cut the line there, melt the exposed ends, and sleeve away. I use the sag method to get the lines even. You will be surprised at how much extra line you will cut away ... if you don't pre-creep your lines, this has to come out during the initial flying sessions.

Now make the remaining pair of lines the same way. If you measure the same length before cutting, this pair of lines will be close enough to the other pair for the initial usage. Remember that reasonable differences between top and bottom lines can be adjusted out with your pigtails. After flying in high winds and rotating the top lines with the bottom lines, make your final adjustments ... probably for the life of the lines.

I know it sounds annal, but I absolutely hate to futz with line sets at the flying field. This "work" is usually accomplished in the hallway of our local school during down times.

Now, has anyone seen my tin foil helmet?

....................................

I use Shanti sleeving (purchased from A Wind of Change) ... that way all my line sets have the same color designation of top vs bottom. Which ever you buy, make sure it's all the same diameter or you'll have trouble getting your top and bottom lines even.

Also, I only tie one knot in the end I'm adjusting to even out the lines. Once the lines are even, then I tie the second knot. It's easier to untie one knot while adjusting the lines than two..

Cheers,

Tom

[Reef Runner]

Hey Tom,

Thanks for your input.

I knew someone would eventually address the "stretchy - creepy - crawly" subject.

[mtgrizzly52]

Here's a posting I made several years ago on the Rev forum about stretch and creep that is still valid:

.................................

Point of order: Our flying line exhibits both stretch and creep. Since it's a form of plastic, the fibers/weave will permanently yield under load ... ie take a set and not return to its original length ... that's creep. In addition to creep, the line will elongate under load and return to it's original length when the load is removed ... that's stretch and can't be removed.

Said another way: When the line is new, you can pull on it with an increasing load and it will elongate in proportion to the load. However, when the load is removed, the line will not return to it's "off the spool" length. That's creep, and that's what we're trying to remove from new line when making a line set.

If you make up the individual lines independent of each other and don't use a scale to induce the same loads in each line, then you'll have various levels of creep in each line. That will mean lots of adjustment after you've flown for awhile. The alternative is to pair up the upper lines and the lower lines. Remove double the length of the line set off a spool (plus enough extra for all four loops.) Sleeve both ends. Place the loops over a stake/nail/post and stretch out the doubled over line. Place a carabiner (or a pulley if you're also a SLK guy) at the doubled back point and load it up. Since the sleeves/knots reduce the breaking strength by about a third, your 90# line will now break at about 60# of load. But, since the line is doubled, you can pull with 120# of force before the line will theoretically break. Pull and tug away with abandon ... tugging does seem to assist in increasing the creep. The closer you get to the breaking strength the less post-flying adjustment will be needed.

Now measure the line length plus one times the amount for your loops (don't forget an additional 1/2 inch for each knot you place in the sleeving.) Cut the line there, melt the exposed ends, and sleeve away. I use the sag method to get the lines even. You will be surprised at how much extra line you will cut away ... if you don't pre-creep your lines, this has to come out during the initial flying sessions.

Now make the remaining pair of lines the same way. If you measure the same length before cutting, this pair of lines will be close enough to the other pair for the initial usage. Remember that reasonable differences between top and bottom lines can be adjusted out with your pigtails. After flying in high winds and rotating the top lines with the bottom lines, make your final adjustments ... probably for the life of the lines.

I know it sounds annal, but I absolutely hate to futz with line sets at the flying field. This "work" is usually accomplished in the hallway of our local school during down times.

Now, has anyone seen my tin foil helmet?

....................................

I use Shanti sleeving (purchased from A Wind of Change) ... that way all my line sets have the same color designation of top vs bottom. Which ever you buy, make sure it's all the same diameter or you'll have trouble getting your top and bottom lines even.

Also, I only tie one knot in the end I'm adjusting to even out the lines. Once the lines are even, then I tie the second knot. It's easier to untie one knot while adjusting the lines than two..

Cheers,

Tom

Tom, I read this post last night while searching thru the forum and it made sense then, now with you reporting it, my reading it again, now in really understand your information. I'm with you on not fooling with lines on the flying field, so I will be attempting to duplicate your method.

Thanks so much for the great advice!

mtgrizzly52

[mtgrizzly52]

Thank you everyone for your ideas, methods and advice! I will ordering my line and sleeve material. I just hope it gets here before it starts snowing. That certain chill is in the air tonight. Also my lousy spelling and grammar. It's this rotten IPad's fault!!!

mtgrizzly52

[Reef Runner]

Place a carabiner (or a pulley if you're also a SLK guy) at the doubled back point and load it up.

Hey Tom, I like that idea.........

[Jeepster]

Place a carabiner (or a pulley if you're also a SLK guy) at the doubled back point and load it up.

Hey Tom, I like that idea.........

Oh come on! You guys with beach access don't have any worries ... just stretch out 240 ft plus (or 480 ft plus) and tug away the creep. Here in the Midwest the &$%^# corn gets in the way.

I used our RC club's flying field early one morning to build my first set of 120s. Stretched out the 480 ft plus of line and tugged away. It worked okay, but the wind interfered with the sag method of evening them out, thus the transfer to my local school's hallway during evening hours.

Cheers,

Tom

[Reef Runner]

Yep, I've done it both ways, pairs, quads, or as you say, just string it out full length, and tug away. I normally do mine in my driveway now. Half is inside the garage and shop, while about 40 - 50 feet are outside, depending on the length of the set. I still try to do this on windless days.............

[Wayne Dowler]

I usually pick a windless day and go to my local park to make some! Take an old set out to mark my length, then make some new ones!! Got a picnic table to set up my making gear and away I go!! Takes the boredom out of a day with no flying!!

[Reef Runner]

I usually pick a windless day and go to my local park to make some! Take an old set out to mark my length, then make some new ones!! Got a picnic table to set up my making gear and away I go!! Takes the boredom out of a day with no flying!!

And what do you do about the dogs ? Ever had a loose dog, to innocently reek havoc on your lines? I had a new set strung, half in my garage, and half out in the driveway, one day, and out of no where, here comes the neighbor's dog. Needless to say, we had words , but I don't think the dog understood .

[Jeepster]

... Take an old set out to mark my length, then make some new ones!! ...

One admonition ... do make sure your old line set is the correct length. My first line set came with the kite and was advertised as 80 foot long. My best guess is that the manufacturer cut the raw line 80 feet long and THEN made the line set. I finally cut it down for a Kite Party line set.

Not sure how close the line sets need to be for flying in team situations, but three feet too long is too much. The Fosters fly on 100 foot lines a lot. Since we were going to be together for a week this last summer, I made a 100 foot set to fly with them. Theirs turned out to be about 3 feet shorter than mine. I was constantly being buffeted with turbulence when following one of them. They had no trouble 'cuz theirs were the same "odd" length.

Cheers,

Tom

[Wayne Dowler]

I usually pick a windless day and go to my local park to make some! Take an old set out to mark my length, then make some new ones!! Got a picnic table to set up my making gear and away I go!! Takes the boredom out of a day with no flying!!

And what do you do about the dogs ? Ever had a loose dog, to innocently reek havoc on your lines? I had a new set strung, half in my garage, and half out in the driveway, one day, and out of no where, here comes the neighbor's dog. Needless to say, we had words , but I don't think the dog understood .

The park I use is a "no dogs off leash" park! Kids are another story!!

[Reef Runner]

The park I use is a "no dogs off leash" park! Kids are another story!!

Yeah, and I live in a "no dogs off the leash" county, but it doesn't seem to amount to much. Now as for the kids, well, I wasn't planning to go there, however, I have had that to happen several times, out on the beach. But hey, when we were that age, we probably also headed straight for the ocean, with the blinders on, and never saw anything, except that "great big pool of water"...........

[mystainedskin]

All indoors for me if I make them at work. At home I use the sidewalk out front. I keep all my line doubled and tripled back ,except for stretching....then I don't disturb the neighbors too much when making long sets.

[mtgrizzly52]

Well I got my line making materials today. I have say a huge thank you to Kent Kingston and his crew at A Wind of Change Kites in Las Vegas for great service. I ordered this stuff on Wednesday and it arrived in Montana this morning. Awesome!!!

I got a 300 yard spool of 50# LP Gold Line, a spool of Premium Braid Shanti Flying line for sleeving and Shanti Spleever kit. Tomorrow I'll be out in the yard laying out my first set of lines that will be 30' long using all of the wonderful information all of you have shared. I'd be outside building these lines right now, but I had a minor surgery on my foot today so tomorrow will be a much better time I think.

Wish me luck!

Rick (mtgrizzly52)

[mystainedskin]

I was re-reading some of this.... I don't do line work in the field either. One reason I make my leaders a little long.. I do believe this was In one of Johns videos... I just knot up where needed and work it out in my routine checks. First I work it out at the handles unless its real bad...then I add knots in the leaders

I have been off before in making a set...or 2... But usually pretty darn close once they go to the kite. I can see being specific for team flying due to the factors mentioned, but as of now....that's not a factor for me.

[mtgrizzly52]

Well I got my first set of lines done yesterday. I now have a set of 30'x50# lines put together in spite of granddauter's mutts and my lovely bride....actually my wife was a great help even though she didn't understand what I was doing. Thank you all so much for your advice, photos, tutorials etc. Now where is that darned wind? Oh well, will report how they work when I can get enough wind to fly with.

mtgrizzly52

[SparkieRob]

Well I got my first set of lines done yesterday. I now have a set of 30'x50# lines put together in spite of granddauter's mutts and my lovely bride....actually my wife was a great help even though she didn't understand what I was doing. Thank you all so much for your advice, photos, tutorials etc. Now where is that darned wind? Oh well, will report how they work when I can get enough wind to fly with.mtgrizzly52

With a 30' line set you don't need wind, just perspiration...

[Reef Runner]

With a 30' line set you don't need wind, just perspiration...

.........and eat a big breakfast !

[John Barresi]

Big breakfasts slow me down, I skip all that and go for a 2-stage dinner.

Maybe a Clif bar or trail mix midway, and as much water as I can remember to drink.