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What I'd like to see


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On another forum, I saw a posting from Kite Life where John and Dave both encouraged suggestions on how to improve Kite Life. Instead of posting on that forum, I figured that I'd do it here. Being the greedy little person I am, I want a lot!

I'd love to see articles for the beginning to intermediate flyers. The current mantra is learn how to stall kite, then move on to tricks. It's been my experience and in talking to other flyers, that it takes time to just learn how to the fly the kite.

Articles on how moving the feet makes a difference. What maneuvers to practice, not tricks. My most valuable lesson to date was John showing me how to fly circles, fooling around on the edge and just trying to balance the kite and see what it does. How about an article with more tips like that?

An article on what to expect as a flyer? Most of us fly, between 2 to 6 hours a week, if were lucky. What should my development be after one year, two years, three years? I know it will be faster if their are other flyers around

The reason I ask is that I find it disheartening to read posts by new fliers who claim to be flying advanced tricks in three months. I've grown skeptical of their claims, thinking that they are more in line with fishing stories. Still I wonder at times why is everything taking so long?

Articles on general features on a kite. What does a deep sail give me versus a relatively flat sail. What about straight versus curved leading edges? What do those winglet things do? Fancier kites give the option of framing the kite in 3pt or 5pt. What is the advantage or disadvantage of the different rod sizes?

Articles on competition. If I'm interested in getting into competition, what can I expect? Why do competitors have one model of kite in all its forms? What is the ideal kind of music? What are the judges looking for?

Articles that introduce us to quadline kites, fighter kites, single line kites, foils. I've seen Quadline kites, what should I expect as a beginner? What is a good one to start with? The same questions can be asked of all the different types of kites.

This might aleady exist but I would like to see a resource area that deals with the following subjects, making line sets, sleeving lines, tieing kite knots, making a bridle, replacing broken rods, reframing a kite, repairing a tear or puncture in the sail. specs on bridles, frame sets, and fittings, storing kites, cleaning kites, traveling with kites, general tips and tricks. I'm aware a lot of this information is available on other forums it would be nice to have everything in one central location.

A kite modification area. What experiments have people done on their kites and the results? Include the failures, they often give insight into what the flyer was expecting, how the results were different and how that led them to try different things.

Anyway I hope this helps.

Jay

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Wow Jay! This is great!

But you better watch out...John just may assign you a few of those suggestions to write articles about!

Or.....are you looking for more threads in the forum, where members can write, ask and contribute? Must be a place you can start a thread, ask a question....and see what flows next!

Next time you're by The Shoppe, we can make a line set together! And then, if you can put it to words....post it so others can read about it. Pictures would be good too......

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:P oooooo include me in on the lesson will ya???? Great suggestions!!! I second that.. I am still trying to figure out what I am doing... and I am getting really good at repairing my duel.. sheesh... central oregon has wicked wind gusts..

I keep trying to get John to give me a lesson or two.. hey john?? any chance you would be willing to do a clinic this summer?????? ;):D:w00t:

mousie...

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I envision a comprehensive kiting resource that is part "encylopedia" part "how to guide" and part "reference guide".

The encyclopedia would explain such things such as: Precision flying, free style flying, competition flying, light wind flying, indoor flying. Quadline, fighter, single line kites, and foils.

The how to guide would explain, how to make line sets, replace a broken rod, repair a torn sail, make a bridle, roll up a kite, clean a dirty kite.

The reference guide would have a knot tying chart, a table listing the different types of fittings, specs for kites that include rods fittings and bridle dimensions, an explanation of different rod sizes and the difference between ripstop nylon and polyester.

Putting the together the resource, would be more about gathering the information that already exists on the internet, instead of writing everthing from scratch.

For example: Andy Wardly has a site with lots of information about the history of Free Style. Would he allow us, with proper notation to use his postings in the resource? The folks over at Sky Burner are probably the leading authority on rods. Could we get Jon Trennepohl, to write an article, explaining the differences?

I'd be more then willing to help put together a resource. Whether it be data mining or contacting people for contributions.

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I'm hired? Woo Hoo a job I can finally love.

A rough proposal for your consideration.

The resource-guide page is a quick reference to provide information on basic kite topics.

Comprehensive articles on kiting are the main stay of Kite Life. The resource-guide is meant to be a support to Kite Life. Providing a reference to give back ground and explain terms found in the Kite Life articles.

The resource-guide should focus mainly on helping people get their kites into the air. And supporting them as they learn to fly.

Additionally the resouce, can be a quick reference to all flyers. With pages dedicated to basic skills, such as: tying kite knots, making bridles, kite repair.

The resource-guide would not be the place for kite reviews. Since reviews are subjective and generate passionate feelings, this is a topic better left for the forums.

Four areas that I'd like to see in the resouce: Beginners Guide, Reference Guide, How to Guide, and Equipment Guide.

Beginners Guide.

An introductory guide for the absolute beginner, who saw a kite on the beach or at a park. Curious they would like more information. Articles and graphics, explaning the anatomy of a kite, line sets (material and lengths), setting up the kite, launching, maneuvers to practice, landing, and putting the kite away.

Reference Guide.

The place to explain the terms, concepts, and activities of the kiting world. What is competition, precision, freestyle, indoor, ballet, trick, style flying? How do the different shaped sails effect the way the kite flies?

How to Guide.

The place where the How do I....? Questions are answered. How do I make a line set, repair a snapped line set, make a bridle, replace a broken rod, reframe a kite, repair a torn sail, clean a kite?

Equipment Guide

An archive, that contains photos of kites with bridle and frame specs. Also pictures that show the different type of fittings.

Construction and organization

The resource is more of a collection of articles found on Kite Life, forums and various web sites. Blanks are filled in by inviting recognized experts on subject to write an article or create a web page.

Therefore, forum hosts, website authors, need to be contacted and asked permision to use their information, while assuring them that we will provide them proper credit and directing people to their sites, for further information.

Web Site

I'm not experienced in putting together a web site. Hopefully what I'm outlining above will give you an idea of of space needed.

Contributions

My greatest strength and weakness is asking questions. I ask a lot of them, because, I'm curious and want to learn. Sometimes, people get really annoyed with all my questions. I don't understand why?

If and when we contact somebody about an article, I'll be more than happy to write a list of questions then I'd like to see more information on.

To get this project off the ground, I will be more than happy to dedicate myself for a year. At the end of the year, we can see where everything stands, and as the song goes, should I stay, or should I go?

If you'd like to see any part of this proposal fleshed out, let me know.

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Nice work Jay... Very nice.

How you could help, if indeed we have your services for awhile... Catalogue any relevant articles in the Kitelife past issue archives with title, description and direct URL. Divide these by category:

i.e.

"how to"

> framing

> bridle

> line sets

> ballet

> precision

> etc

beginners

> setting up a kite

> tuning

> flying

> etc

And so on...

If you can put this Kitelife past issues reference library together, we can fill out whatever is missing.

Thanks for your vision. ;)

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Hi All,

I'd like to help with this endeavor. I started some articles on trick flying, the HKS (Hoosier Kitefliers Society) has copies for posting on their newsletter.

If you want to start from the absolute begining and work up an 'agreed upon' skills ladder, then let me know.

Also, are we allowed to suggest equipment and make references?

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one other thing...

Someone once mentioned (maybe as a joke) that a video showing the wrong 'things' might be as valuable as videos that show the right way to fly. I think that there might be something in this. They guy that suggest this said that it could be the opposite of Prism's "Way to fly". We could call it the 'wrong way to fly'.

;) In reference to my last post, an agreed upon skills ladder needs to be discussed.

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If you want to start from the absolute begining and work up an 'agreed upon' skills ladder, then let me know.

Also, are we allowed to suggest equipment and make references?

Hi ikky,

I always refrain from making specific product recommendations, but encourage suggestions with regard to style, materials, characteristics, etc.

If you're inclined, go ahead and compile the information you have in mind and we'll incorporate it into this project where we can.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "skills ladder"?

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Hi John,

I asked about skills/trick progression someplace else and got mixed results (obvious and expected).

The people that responded went through, gaining a set a skills and building from said skill. No specific order in tricks learned, but you can see clearly that rotation was learned first then pitch.

Here's a rough draft of the skills ladder

Flying: No crashing stunt kite unless trying something abnormal (like a trick).

Push, pull, and combo turns: You know…

Stall: Comfortable with kite hovering at edge of window. Can control hovering kite with correct inputs and footwork. Flying kite in really low winds.

Stalls2: Spin stalls, snap stalls, and the side slide.

Flat spin moves: Axel, spin axel, half axel, 540, backspin, genie pop, slotmachine, etc… With the flat spin moves, the pilot learns to give more than one input to the kite.

Some intangible learning also takes place (for example, the feel of the kite in a stall. The feeling of the kite in a fade.)

Pitch tricks. Axel to fade, yo-yos (from fade and from front flip), pancake to fade.

More intangible stuff is learned here as well. (example, knowing how much air to dump before making a 2 point landing, or knowing what the kite is capable of doing in any position without conscious thought)

Combo’s (detailed knowledge of kite position, angle, pressure, etc...)

Piecing the combinations together…

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While that's a mostly viable "skills ladder", what I often see if people who can whip out a few dozen slack line tricks REALLY well, but have foresaken the skills required to fly precisely...

If you take a dozen AKA compulsory maneuvers and ask a dozen fliers to fly all of them, a fair number will be able to do the tricks really well but can't carve clean maneuvers.

What I'm indicating here is that a "skills ladder" may not be linear (i.e. A to B to C to D), but may be better addressed as independant skill areas.

In my personal observations, a fair order in which to learn is:

Flying > Landing > Turn Methods > Precision > Edgework > Stalls > Spin Moves > Pitch Tricks > Combos

Certainly, this order would put all the skills in the right order for a flier to develop the in most well rounded way possible.

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Hello John,

This is a very interesting topic. Kudos going out to Jay for bringing it up.

Would you say that by doing some precision work a person's ability to do tricks would be enhanced?

Also, if all the kites a person owns are trick kites would you recommend that they work precision figures with these kites or invest in a more precision-oriented kite?

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Hi Oculus,

The precision thing is a strange animal. What looks good to you may look like crap 12ft behind you. So practicing with a spotter(coach) helps.

Precision, as I've been introduced to it, is the nothing like slackline. With precision you control the amount of pressure on the sail by moving forward or backward. Having a constant pressure means having constant speed throughout the window.

So no, precision will not help with slackline tricks. ALTHOUGH, it will help with the feel of the kite and how much air you need to dump before going into a stall.

There are lots of trick oriented kites that track well.

John, I'm not disagreeing with you when you added the precision skill to the list. But,,, are you sure that recreational flyers that want to learn tricks will want to learn precision?

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Two good questions Amy... Good to see you're still with us. :)

1. I think if you've spent a hefty amount of time working on precision (including edgework, push/pull/combo turns, corners, etc) that it can lend a finer finish or polish to trickwork.

2. Yes, if the flier is still learning... Once you're accomplished however, it might be best to look into kite(s) that cover both the precision and trick abilities nicely.

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