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Beginner Quad Question


pbcoole
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Got more time in today. Yeah the flying in reverse seems to be toughest! Takes a light touch I think cause I too often made a wing tip flip up. Any tips on reverse flight? Going forward is no problem and getting it to stop is easy, but making it actually fly reverse seems difficult.

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Quad sticks help too. ;)

I know, I know. I just like the way my Rev flies so much more with them on. :D

Seriously if you don't want to do that, it's just practice. It takes a light touch. Longer handles make it harder, because there's more throw - more effect on the kite. So, shorter handles will make the kite less responsive, and less likely to wingflip.

I'd like to caution you on this though. While using shorter handles makes reverse flying easier, there are drawbacks of course. Longer handles are better for lower winds, better if you want to do things like flic-flacs, and just generally more responsive.

Many quad flyers live by the mantra, "Longer is better", or "Go long or go home". :D It's a personal preference thing. My handles measure 14.5" across the gap, and I love them. When I try to fly with normal Rev handles, the kite just feels sluggish and clunky to me.

I don't know if that rambling made any sense though. Let me try this:

Shorter handles = Less responsive (less touchy), less likely to wingflip, possibly better for precision.

Longer handles = More responsive, snappier, better in lower winds.

Drawbacks to both. Personally, I've tried both and consider longer better. There was more of a learning curve though.

Jason

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On the other side of the coin, I've tried both and been on the "short handles", Rev's extended UL handles (not the indoor ones) for over ten years now.

I agree with the attributes Jason went through with regard to handles... I like the precision, and am comfortable moving a lot more for the snappy moves.

As he said, pros and cons... Try both, have fun. ;)

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had more fun today! Winds got even stronger. I noticed that it seemed a little bit easier to make it fly in reverse when the wind was stronger. I love the pull of the kite when the winds get up. Sure is fun! Hey, is there any video footage on the net anywhere of a shockwave or supersonic? I'd like to see those models in action.

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The only SS videos I can think of right off are these:

Kite videos by Mark Hughes

Marina Green is a Supersonic video, if memory serves. And of course there's the vented SS video. You also might want to check out the Rev 1.5 SUL/Spirit video. It's not an SS, but it's a cool video.

If you're looking for something faster than the 1.5, don't forget about the Rev 2. The Supersonic vs. Rev 2 debate has been done to death - mostly by me. :D They're both fast and fun. The SS is faster, but the Rev 2 can still get pretty fast in higher winds. The SS also pulls more. The Rev 2 is very light on the lines.

You're probably more likely to break the SS when the wind is up. I was flying a stranger's Shockwave once - first flight on a speed series. Inverted hover 10' up. Strong gust of wind took the kite from 0 to about 60 instantly, straight into the ground. The kite collapsed in a heap, breaking the SLE and shooting one downspar into orbit, never to be seen again. This all happened within three minutes of meeting the guy.

I later found out that the owner's name was Dave. ;) He was extremely cool about it though.

Jason

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Hi Scott,

Jason is right. Both the SS and the Rev 2 are fast. You can pick up the Rev 2's on Ebay for a reasonable price from time-to-time (around $100). I picked up four over a period of a year and stack them. And the SS is a hoot!

All Rev's have their own personality and all are fun to fly. I don't have either of the PowerBlasts so I don't know about them particularly. But I've certainly enjoyed all the Revs that I have.

Later, Doug

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Heh, I like the obedient dog in the videos!

Its not -really- evident in the Marina video but, there's a few things the SS and Shockwaves excel at : (looking at the vented video, you can see it a little more)

Side Slides - MUCH quicker and easier on these kites. I mean, everything is quicker, but the sideways speed is really noticeable

Reverse flight - Due to the 4 vertical rods, its pretty tough, if not impossible, to wing flip these in reverse. You can quite literally yank it through the sky backwards as hard as you want. I -know- that having a SS when they first came out did wonders for my reverse flying on "normal" revs. You don't need as much finesse to make it work on the Speed Series Revs.

Flic-flac'ish stuff - Also much easier on the Speed kites, again due to the 4 verticals.

Also, the leading edge has a curve to it (not point to point, more cupped over the vert. rods) that makes pulling it into float pretty easy.

I really like the Speed Series revs despite not currently owning one, but, overall, I prefer Rev 1s, which arent very fast at all. Maybe its my old mind slowing down

;)

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Sadly, Mark lost his dog (Shasta, I believe) to illness a couple of years ago.

Yes, I agree regarding the Speed Series' behavior in side slides and reverse flight.

A negative on the SS is that it doesn't do very well in lower winds. I know it's not what it's designed for at all, but it's still nice to have a wide wind range. I think the Rev 2 is a little better here.

Another thing is the additional rotational mass caused by having two downspars on each side. This makes the kite more oversteerish when the wind is on the low side. And the low side for a SS is realistically a decent 8-10 mph to be fun. It may fly in a bit less, but I don't think it would be much fun unless you really worked at it for a while.

Admittedly, I don't have a Speed Series Rev, but I've flown the SS, vented SS and SW.

I have a Rev 2 and love it - but would still like a SS sometimes. So the point again is, you'll probably want both.

Jason

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One thing that Monkey-boy alluded to that is really cool is to take a speed series kite to the top of the wind window and yank the upper lines. Instead of falling out of the sky like the Rev 1, 2, and 1.5, it goes into a float and just floats around for a little while until the lines become taut again. At least, it happens most of the time. This is true especially for the Shockwave and Supersonic. And to some degree the Blast.

I agree with Jason that the lower limit on the SS is around 8-10 mph. You can fly at a little lower windspeed with the Shockwave but it pulls some more than the Supersonic.

Monkey-boy, tell us how to do a flic-flac. I've seen it in videos, but never in "real life" to figure out how it's done.

Later, Doug

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Well, see, if I could do one properly myself...

So far, there's two approachs, one thats speed series specific, one thats not

1] Speed Series way

Its -almost- the same kind of action as a catch half of a catch/toss thing. Get the kite up into the air, preferably 75% or so. In one smooth motion (ahahahaha) pass both handles into hand. With which hand is now doing nothing, reach forward and and grab as far forward as you can but, on the BOTTOM lines and give the two lines a sharp yank backwards. This will flip the bottom of the wing up over the leading edge. Let go and it will come back to "normal"

1a] Grabbing the top lines is what will also produce the float described above

2] Harder way

I'm not particularily good at this yet, but, its the "standard" way that people seem to be doing this as far as I can tell. The motion is similiar no matter which direction this is done however, Im describing it with the leading edge pointing up ^ ---------- ^

I tend to have to "come into" this proplerly to make it work for me, this could simply be my utter spastic abilities however. With the leading up, and the kite juuuuust about hovering, but, moving down a little, you have to (at the same time) point the handle bottoms back ( a lot) and give a VERY hard tug downwards. Really hard. Harder than that even. Its a literal *snap* downwards and its very quick. In a perfect world, your tips are now over the leading edge, and the same motion again will bring the tips back to "normal" position.

Notes specific to the 2] method - More times than not, at least at first, you are going to wrap lines around the knots on the back of the kite tips. There's numerous approaches to dealing with this, from going to a knotless setup, to covering the knots, to making the knots smaller, using smaller bungies. Be prepared to walk the walk of shame back to the kite a lot. Its worth practicing this when nobody is around simply to keep your ego from damage.

I have also seen a video where the guy essentially throws the handle tops forward very hard with the bottoms back, however this has never resulted in a flic flac for me, it usually means "crash" followed by "swearing" and "walking to the kite"

As I work on this more, I'll see if I can't quantify the method that works for me a little better. When its done right, it really looks good in routines, Shawn Tinkham does it really nicely and its becoming more common in European flyers.

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For one way to do a flic-flac - watch this video.

What really makes this method work is the long handles. There's quite a bit more to learn from that video as well.

I have decent success doing them this way. However, I don't do them much at all. I take good care of my stuff and want it to last. I can just see me popping a little too hard once and having my line cut right through the TE on the kite. For me, it's not really worth it for one trick. I've considered using leaders at the kite end, but haven't done that yet.

This thread seems to be going all over the place. :D

Jason

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:D Spent 3 hours untangling my lines last night!! arrgghh!!! Got some short flying in yesterday in the cold at a park with a playground where my girls could play but unfortunately my two 4 yr olds let my 18 month old too close to the pond that's in the park!! Her pants got soaked! + I was ticked! + Hurried to go home! = kiteline nightmare, mucho entanglement!!! All is well now though. :D
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  • 8 months later...

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