Cruzin1a Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 Hi all, We have a 7' delta kite with two standard 6' tails. We would like to replace those with two tube tails and we are looking for advice concerning how long the tails should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzin1a Posted July 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 http://kitelife.com/forum/gallery/image/4944-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 There is no "cut and dry", length. Put whatever you want on that kite. I've got several 7' Deltas, and I will send them up with anything from 12 to 50 feet. I also attach wind socks & spinners, etc. Heck, I've even sent them up with beer cans, hanging from strings........ Good Luck, but seriously, any tail in the 25 to 50 foot range, should be just fine. I am assuming, that you are talking about a "single line" Delta..........right ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzin1a Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Single line, correct. Thank you for the advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Single line, correct. Thank you for the advice No problem. Really, you can hang just about any tail you want, on that kite, as long as you got the wind to get it into the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Welcome to the forum! In the paper Hi Flier days we used to put on tails to just stabilize the kite enough to get it to fly. These days I put tails on a steerable two line kite to slow them down in high wind. A little sky writing is fun too. And now our kites are so good that we can use tails for visual interest. Recently got a 3 meter single line delta & now can fly any tail I want. Look forward to going even bigger with more laundry flying. That's a great looking kite in your avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzin1a Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Sounds great! We currently have a 6' spinning windsock we have as laundry. I was hoping to run two 25' tube tails in place of the two 6' streamer tails that came with the kite. Sounds like we should be good with that. The picture above is our third time flying a kite. It was this past Sunday at the Newport Kite Festival. I had a blast :0) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 I fly flat tails on my SLKs. I had a similar sized DC that I fly 2 24' flat tails from. I fly my 12' double DC with 2 48' and 2 24' flat tails. Once the kite is up 100 feet, you can't tell if the tails are flat or tube. I only have one tube tail, it's 25' and 8" in diameter. It's a real drag, even for the 12' Delta that I bought it for. You need at least 10mph of wind to get a kite to lift most tails, tube tails will need more wind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Australian Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 The others have all said it, but I will say it again. Whatever the Kite will lift is good. Tubes are a lot more drag than a flat tail, 2x24' will need a solid wind for sure. I have a metallic Red tail 4.5' x 50' that I put up under my Sled. But I need a decent wind for that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Thanks Rob. I've been wondering about my large tube tail. When I tried it on a standard sail two line delta it seemed to be a tether not a tail. Bought it when I had no eye deer. I will just keep getting bigger kites until I can use it. Sounds like a great rationale to go to the kite store for that really big delta I've seen. You know, the one that requires the 500 pound test line. Others ask questions & I get to learn from the pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzin1a Posted July 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Great stuff, love it. Good to know that at 100' they look they same. Good to know tubes create more drag (makes sense :0)) and need more wind. Sounds like a couple 25' flat tails would look nice while at the same time keeping within what would work well for this kite. Do tubes behave differently than flat tails, for a single line delta, applied in the fashion we're discussing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Australian Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Flat tails are generally more active. Flapping and wafting around more easily. Which is what I like. Tube Tails get filled with air and stay straighter, They still waft around, but less. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Yes, as WA mentioned, you'll get much more action from the flat tails, even multiple flat tails, connected to the same point on the kite. On occasion, I will run four 25+ foot tails, from the center of a delta, or maybe, two from each wing tip. Be creative, plus, the flat tails are easier to fold up and store. That's the thing with tails, on more thing to put up, but definitely worth it, if you are going to put the kite up for an extended period of time, like a day at the beach. I'll just about bet, that 7' Delta would take two 25 footers on each wing tip, with a 50 footer in the center. Again, once airborne, that 25 footer, or that 50 footer, doesn't look so overwhelming any longer. Even a 100 footer doesn't look so long, once the kite is up 300 - 400 feet, and I generally let the whole 500 foot line out, and tie it off to something. If you got steady winds, you'll nearly forget about it, unless a storm comes up. TIP: In case of a storm, of for some other reason, you need to take your kite down, from 300 - 500 feet, QUICKLY, either to make an adjustment, or just for winding up in the evening, it's much easier to do so, with the line on the ground, rather than trying to pull the kite in, as you wind, with the line under tension. I use an inexpensive carabiner, with a 6" to 8" piece of rope looped into the carabiner for a handle, then I hook the carabiner over the kite line, and walk the kite down quickly. Of course, the ground end of the kite line needs to be held by someone, or anchored. If your are winding up for the day, just disconnect the kite when you get to it, and go back to your anchor point and start winding up line. If you were just making an adjustment, once complete, put the kite back into the air, and reverse the process. Start walking back down the line towards the anchor point, using the carabiner, just as when you walked the kite down to the ground. Once the kite is up fifty to a hundred feet or so, assuming you've got good winds, you can just let go of the carabiner, and the kite will go right back up to where it was originally. Don't worry, your carabiner will beat you back to your anchor point............. This is basically how people bring down those very large, and hard to handle, kites, and the carabiner keeps from getting your hands burned by the line. I keep the smaller version carabiners in my flight bag, just for this purpose. They are usually rated at about 150 lb, and cost about $1 - $2. This is what I use, but I put a piece of rope in place of those straps, to hold onto ! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammoRay Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 I don't know how "newbie" you are, so here's some very basic advice. Hanging tails on the wing tips is inherently unstable; to maintain stability, the tails must be perfectly balanced or their drag must be insignificant compared to stability provided by the delta keel. So, if you are hanging twin tails from the kite tips, the least drag is preferred. Use flat tails before tubes or spinners, and use shorter tails before longer ones, etc. On the other hand, hanging a tail from the back tip of the keel is inherently stable. You can hang anything from the center back of the kite and it will enhance stability as long as the kite can easily lift it. (Even if your rig is flying straight, it is not stable if it keeps touching the ground!) Think of it this way: drag at the center back of your kite will turn it into the wind, drag on a tip will turn the kite to that side. My choice would be to spend my money on one bigger tube, spinner, or tail and hang it from the center back of the kite, rather than on two smaller pieces to be hung from the tips. The bonus is that I could keep my two existing small tails on the kite tips if I wanted (or even add larger ones) because the larger center drag should provide the additional stability to correct any unbalance caused by drag on the tips. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GammoRay Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Let me ask you for advice! How did you get paragraphs in your post? I used two "returns" but, when I posted my comment, the paragraphs disappeared! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Let me ask you for advice! How did you get paragraphs in your post? I used two "returns" but, when I posted my comment, the paragraphs disappeared! Not sure if you're talking to me GammoRay, but good points on the tails. I should have mentioned the "balance issue", from tip to tip, but I just assumed, since he was currently flying with twin, wing-tip tails, he knew that. Again, good point! Now, as a matter of fact, I myself, have a SLK with twin tails, that I was planning on putting up next week, at the coast. The reason is exactly what your were talking about. It flies, off balance to the right, and I know it's due to the wing tip tails. One has got to be longer, or it weighs more, or something, so I had planned on having a pair of scissors in my pocket on this next outing, to balance things out......... As for the paragraphs......can't answer that one. I just hit the <enter> key twice, and it's there (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 So much help here on KiteLife. Stuff it would take a season to learn is casually mentioned in a few posts & all of a sudden I'm in the air flying like I know what I'm doing. You guys are the best. Thanks again! Now I need to go get all my old climbing/caving stuff out & ponder the possibilities. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzin1a Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Thanks again all! Fantastic real world advice. I took a look at my kite and discovered a factory loop right in the center. That's great, I thought there was only two at the tips. Thankfully she flies nice and true with the two factory installed tails on the wing tips. It was mentioned above that a tube tail would fly a little truer than the flat tails. From what I've gathered here I think a good next step would be a tube tail down the center somewhere in the rang of 25' to 50'. Quick edit. I found an HQ 34' x 5.5" tube tail in Rainbow. I think that just might be the good fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 That's a big tail... you might soon be in the market for an 11' Delta ! Or, consider a DC, they're more stable... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzin1a Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 That's a beautiful kite. The DC's seem really nice. I've read they provide good lift and as you mentioned they're more stable. Maybe for my current 7' delta i should get the HQ 16' x 2" tube tail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 That's a big tail... you might soon be in the market for an 11' Delta ! Or, consider a DC, they're more stable... What a beauty! "Too many kites, too little time." Somebody famous said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepster Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 .... This is basically how people bring down those very large, and hard to handle, kites, and the carabiner keeps from getting your hands burned by the line. I keep the smaller version carabiners in my flight bag, just for this purpose. ... I agreed with everything that Nick talked about until the part about the "very large and hard to handle kites" showed up. When the kites get big enough to really pull, the carabiner will bring them down, as Nick describes, however, you'll end up wearing a groove in the carabiner ... with the assumption that you're also doing some damage to your line. For the larger kites I use one of these two pulleys: http://kitelife.com/forum/gallery/image/4946-pulley-1/ The orange one is a climbing pulley sold by Gomberg Kites ($15) and the tin one is a modified pulley from Tractor Supply (~$7). There was a lot of filing involved with modifying the tin one, but it can be disassembled to remove any beach sand grit from the bushing. The pulley goes over the line and the carabiner - with a strap - is snapped through the holes. No drag nor wear on the line. Cheers, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 .... This is basically how people bring down those very large, and hard to handle, kites, and the carabiner keeps from getting your hands burned by the line. I keep the smaller version carabiners in my flight bag, just for this purpose. ... I agreed with everything that Nick talked about until the part about the "very large and hard to handle kites" showed up. When the kites get big enough to really pull, the carabiner will bring them down, as Nick describes, however, you'll end up wearing a groove in the carabiner ... with the assumption that you're also doing some damage to your line. For the larger kites I use one of these two pulleys: The orange one is a climbing pulley sold by Gomberg Kites ($15) and the tin one is a modified pulley from Tractor Supply (~$7). There was a lot of filing involved with modifying the tin one, but it can be disassembled to remove any beach sand grit from the bushing. The pulley goes over the line and the carabiner - with a strap - is snapped through the holes. No drag nor wear on the line. Cheers, Tom Again, you are correct Tom. I really wasn't thinking that they would be going, quite that big. Yeah, I use those "carabiners on a rope", to walk down big deltas, etc. I suppose you are talking about some of the really large, "festival" style kites........... The pulley system would be better for that application, for sure................n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 That's a big tail... you might soon be in the market for an 11' Delta ! Or, consider a DC, they're more stable... Hey Rob, Is that DC, your kite ? .......... what a beauty ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzin1a Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 While searching, I found this great video of my kite stacked. Not to shabby considering they're only $30 a piece. I really like the way they fly in the stacked setup, each influenced by the other. http://youtu.be/2vLdKQAcO3A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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