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Pigtails (tuning your quad with knotted leaders)

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Team, everybody thinks that they aren't ready. When West Australian and I started to fly pairs we got a few tangles and stuff. We joked it was becoming our signature move! But each time you both get better at avoidance. Don't ask, JUMP IN!!!

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The real trick is to find some one willing to lead on a regular basis! Takes a certain skill to lead, know what goes in each move, yet still fly your own kite!!

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locally, we have leaders for a few minutes and then someone else has to step in, Jeff burka is killer, for example. He'll take his turn, but flies only backwards until he's replaced!

I call left when I meant right (quite frequently), sometimes my mates intentionally go the opposite direction of what I called, just so I get a feel of their perspective.

We force new people into the line as soon as possible. Get comfortable, we all had to go thru that first time! In fact you lead and the caller will stand next to you. Calls might be

~ slower,

~ don't go out so far (to the edges),

~ try to turn where the leader does (as opposed to "when")

~ control the spacing w/the second pilot

~ work on staying in your own lane (180/go threads)

~ slow down

~ NO slower!

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locally, we have leaders for a few minutes and then someone else has to step in, Jeff burka is killer, for example. He'll take his turn, but flies only backwards until he's replaced!

I call left when I meant right (quite frequently), sometimes my mates intentionally go the opposite direction of what I called, just so I get a feel of their perspective.

We force new people into the line as soon as possible. Get comfortable, we all had to go thru that first time! In fact you lead and the caller will stand next to you. Calls might be

~ slower,

~ don't go out so far (to the edges),

~ try to turn when the leader does (as opposed to "when")

~ control the spacing w/the second pilot

~ work on staying in your own lane (180/go threads)

~ slow down

~ NO slower!

I'm guessing you mean turn "where" the leaders does, not "when"! Turn too soon, you end up in front of the person you're supposed to follow!!

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No problem Paul! I've been one of the inexperienced before and had almost all of those commands come my way! Once as I was just starting out in team, Amy D. had me stand next to her as she called! Did I get an earfull!!!!! All meant to help though, and a person needs to remember that!! It's not meant as a personal attack, just showing you how to blend into a group!! :ani_giveup:

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when I asked Scott Weider

to break his routine down to pre-school level so I could understand it, he said

"Why?, you're retarded" Oh we howled in laughter, I 'bout wet my pants!

I've always remained "just 3 alternates away from making the Riders" demo team,

maybe next time?

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Maybe just the solo flier, like the Blue Angels??

I always fly team with the thought - We're only as strong as the "least experienced" flier, the sooner they "get" it, the better the group! And more flying together helps you "get" it faster! :ani_yahoo:

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Question on the leaders. I flew yesterday in a good wind, about 13 mph, which is rare in my area, and I decided to set the top leader all the way out. The B series flew fine and launched with no problem, with that setup. Now my question is, if I fly in less wind, like say 8 mph next time, will I have to reset the top leader in for that, or can I always use that setting with that particular Rev?

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Question on the leaders. I flew yesterday in a good wind, about 13 mph, which is rare in my area, and I decided to set the top leader all the way out. The B series flew fine and launched with no problem, with that setup. Now my question is, if I fly in less wind, like say 8 mph next time, will I have to reset the top leader in for that, or can I always use that setting with that particular Rev?

I would say, next time out, and assuming 8 mph, give it a try.

As John mentioned earlier, if you can't launch, move in one knot.

3 - If you can't launch, pull in one top knot and try again.

3a - If you can't launch, pull in one top knot and try again.

3b - If you can't launch, pull in one top knot and try again.

3c - If you can't launch, pull in one top knot and try again.

Eventually, you should hit a knot where you are *just* able to launch

Also, don't forget line stretch. A day of high wind flight (not that 13 is too high), could stretch the upper lines, which could again, call for an adjustment, "IN", on the top leaders.............

Sounds like you are figuring this thing out............ :ani_victory:

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Yep, try it. Or more to the, feel it. If it feels good to your hands then that's good. Every now and then I'll go a knot further out than usual and see how I like it. Sometimes it's nice, sometimes not (knot...!)

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Question on the leaders. I flew yesterday in a good wind, about 13 mph, which is rare in my area, and I decided to set the top leader all the way out. The B series flew fine and launched with no problem, with that setup. Now my question is, if I fly in less wind, like say 8 mph next time, will I have to reset the top leader in for that, or can I always use that setting with that particular Rev?  

Leaders are there specifically to tune the sail to current conditions. Just based on that statement alone, I can tell you that for maximum performance, one particular setting will never be enough. There are many other variables besides conditions that influence tuning as well; line stretch/creep, bridle stretch, sail stretch, etc.

Here's what I look for when I tune (when wind speed is optimal for my setup)- while dead-center in the wind window, I can (just) hold an upright hover, and can laterally slide upright while maintaining altitude. I say "just" meaning the kite won't travel upwards any farther without an input from me, it's just barely able to hold an upright hover without having to constantly whump the sail to do so.

In crazy light winds, the above won't work, I tune for lots of brake, so my hard forward inputs won't pull the Rev right out of the sky. I also tune for lots of brake in high winds.

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I just have a remark, regarding this topic....

Does it make sence to compare the difference in " between the top and the bottom of everyones lines? I'm asking this question, because to me it is in relation with the angle of your whrist (your way fo holding the handles in flight... I fly with the bottom of the handle pointed towards the kite, and my index finger over the top line... My wife flies with the handle bottom towards the ground, and index under the topline... Makes a difference of nearly 90° and thus a lot of inches...

Philippe

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I just have a remark, regarding this topic....

Does it make sence to compare the difference in " between the top and the bottom of everyones lines? I'm asking this question, because to me it is in relation with the angle of your whrist (your way fo holding the handles in flight... I fly with the bottom of the handle pointed towards the kite, and my index finger over the top line... My wife flies with the handle bottom towards the ground, and index under the topline... Makes a difference of nearly 90° and thus a lot of inches...

Philippe

Good question.

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I just have a remark, regarding this topic....

 

Does it make sence to compare the difference in " between the top and the bottom of everyones lines?  I'm asking this question, because to me it is in relation with the angle of your whrist (your way fo holding the handles in flight...  I fly with the bottom of the handle pointed towards the kite, and my index finger over the top line... My wife flies with the handle bottom towards the ground, and index under the topline... Makes a difference of nearly 90° and thus a lot of inches... 

 

Philippe

Rev flyers tend to call the difference between the top and bottom lines "differential". It does make sense to compare the two, however, I hesitate to use the number as a baseline for comparison to other pilots' setups. Reason being is so many factors adjust this number, including line stretch, and how you hold your handles.

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I fly with the bottom of the handle pointed towards the kite, and my index finger over the top line...

My wife flies with the handle bottom towards the ground, and index under the topline...

Makes a difference of nearly 90° and thus a lot of inches...

Philippe, In my opinion, if you are doing as you describe, and your wife is doing as you describe, then there is something dramatically different in your set-up. Obviously, your two sets of lines are not the same, and I don't mean than one set is different from top to bottom, I mean that your set, and her set, are different. If they are not, and both kites (perform alike) will hover, directly out in front of you both, with both you and your wife using the hand positions that you describe above, then there has to be a major difference, in how your flight lines are attached to the knotted leaders, at your handles. However, if everything is the same, such as line lengths, set-up at the handles, etc, then you are flying with all drive, and your wife is flying with all brake, so I would think that having the kites to perfom the same, would be nearly impossible. Both positions seem a bit extreme, as the angle of the handles should be changing, as you fly.

You should get some good comments on this question ! :ani_victory:

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Flying with fingers over the leaders?? That's an extreme position to me! Personally I don't like the feel of the leader on my fingers! I used to fly with a "trigger" finger, index finger just above the foam, but with some newer handles I use now, I keep all of them on the foam! But I also have a small indent sanded into the foam, equidistant from the top on both to give me a "home base", so I know that I'm holding them the same!

With fingers over the leaders, aren't you almost always in "drive"? Reverse would be simple, but getting any more forward drive sounds difficult! I would suggest trying it with the "trigger finger" and see if that will work for you! It adds a bit more "brake" into the equation and you may need to tell the kite to go forward! But that is closer to the "neutral" setup we've been talking about trying to achieve!!

Still, the way your flying isn't "wrong", just different! If it works for you, so be it!!

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Question on the leaders. I flew yesterday in a good wind, about 13 mph, which is rare in my area, and I decided to set the top leader all the way out. The B series flew fine and launched with no problem, with that setup. Now my question is, if I fly in less wind, like say 8 mph next time, will I have to reset the top leader in for that, or can I always use that setting with that particular Rev?

There are days where I change leader settings all day!! Sometimes things stay the same, sometimes it's a crap shoot! You adjust as needed, that's why you have all those knots on the leader - to use!

Yes, everyone has a favorite knot, but that setting may not work in the current conditions - change to fit the wind for that day, or hour, or ???

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let's say your hand (or forearm) muscles tightened-up after a long flying session, you could re-set your leaders for a different grip position. It's not always about conditions, sometimes it's just a comfort thang

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On November 19, 2013 at 0:53 PM, mystainedskin said:

Who knows a new team may be in the works! Would join if asked ;) but I don't believe I am of that caliber ...

Hehehehehehe. :)

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4 hours ago, John Barresi said:

Hehehehehehe. :)

I first came to KiteLife when Scott was flying his Wala a bunch.  It was even his avatar then.  Posted a little bit with him on topics & watched some of his videos.  Started to get to know him among other KiteLife regulars.  Then he got Revved up & flew constantly.  Day & night anywhere he could it seemed. Chat made it even more personal.  You get a closer connection chatting.  I suspected early on that my new friend was one of those fortunate ones, a natural born flier.  But also willing to put in the time & effort that few are driven to do.  It has been really great to watch his progress.  An inspiration to us all he is.

My congratulations,  Ralph

gallery_7709_404_1424984.jpg

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Can someone describe the benefits of moving from a set of handles that come with a new kite to as much as 17"? 

I assume from video it is less movement accomplishes more. 

Secondly if John is selling 6" leaders are folks tying their own 12" ones? 

Newbie finding tuning is making life easier but need to make some changes.

thanks!

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Never needed much over a 15" set myself! They do seem to help leverage in lighter wind, but you also need to moderate your inputs to match, easy to over control. Some use just one size (I'm guessing you have the 13" std length ) for just about everything, some the different lengths, it really comes down to what suits you personally! Remember - there is no right or wrong to this - only what works for you!!

 

6" ??  I'm guessing you mean the short knotted leaders that come with the "B" series. Those are not John's specifically, but Rev's version taken from his suggestion. If John had his way - they would be longer. His wife TK, makes sets tied off a jig ( guaranteeing them to be almost perfect!!) and sells them here. I'd suggest trying some!! If not, try making your own - but - make sure the two are as close to the same as possible! 

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The leaders we sell are 11" on top, I've never needed more if the lines are even. ;)

The factory B-Series leaders are too short, probably around 6" or so.

Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

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