Sub706

Pigtails (tuning your quad with knotted leaders)

Recommended Posts

OOPS - by 15", I meant my handle length, not leaders! I use John and TK's leaders - love 'em! And I was referring to your 13" handles too!

Sorry for the confusion!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, I do my best to stay out of retail or manufacturing - I'm a flier first, good leaders (specs and material) are something that I was *perpetually* tying for folks so it only made sense for us to do it right. :)

Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Received the leaders I ordered and after a couple hours tuning and flying in variable winds I was able to find neutral and essentially change from a braking to a leading edge flyer. Took me a while but newbie enough that time spent in the air and the feel of what all you described in videos made sense and seems to be easier with leading edge. Definitely easier to stall in lots of window locations and developed lateral leading edge up flight (on purpose anyway) which looks so cool. Thanks to TK also for her beautiful leaders ! So glad I got them. In a few hours I climbed in skill and smile more - still make lots of shameful walks to unwind and reset but now walking back I am thinking of how to correct versus just how to cuss at a higher level. Love to learn new stuff and this is so frustrating and fun at the same time! Thanks again for the help! Loving it

Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/2/2016 at 9:03 PM, John Barresi said:

Nope, I do my best to stay out of retail or manufacturing - I'm a flier first, good leaders (specs and material) are something that I was *perpetually* tying for folks so it only made sense for us to do it right. :)

Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

I've begun to wonder . . . . . . everyone knows the advantages of extended top leaders, including the good folks at Revolution kites. Why don't they just sell the kites with this type of leader? Another $5/kite is not going to make a difference to a buyer.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm one of those stubborn guys that believe flying a masterpiece rev upside down just doesn't look right! I also enjoy flying inches from the ground at times and small windows, going back to the old style flying brings back memories, you know!

I'm ok at flying with flying long top leaders, I'm also ok with flying nubs as top leaders! Some quad kites don't look correct leading edge down, some can't fly right with leading edge up. I fly my revs the way I feel they was meant to be flown.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, hyzakite said:

I'm one of those stubborn guys that believe flying a masterpiece rev upside down just doesn't look right! I also enjoy flying inches from the ground at times and small windows, going back to the old style flying brings back memories, you know!

I'm ok at flying with flying long top leaders, I'm also ok with flying nubs as top leaders! Some quad kites don't look correct leading edge down, some can't fly right with leading edge up. I fly my revs the way I feel they was meant to be flown.

And that is what makes it fun, in different ways for everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, makatakam said:

I've begun to wonder . . . . . . everyone knows the advantages of extended top leaders, including the good folks at Revolution kites. Why don't they just sell the kites with this type of leader? Another $5/kite is not going to make a difference to a buyer.

 

Well now - deep subject!!

My take - Look at it from Rev's point of view as a seller - if you can't launch it - you can't sell it! Just about everything they did in leaders is geared to make it easy to launch! Think about it, what do the longer leaders do? Add control to an already flying kite! Most of us, that have gone the longer leader route, have learned to incorporate or adapted to the needed moves that get the kite airborne. But it does take a bit more effort. Technique helps. learning to preload the sail in preparation of launch, taking a step back in your launch sequence, all take some learning. Especially if you are used to the kite just leaping into the sky!! 

Even the leaders on the "B" series are a compromise!! Not as long as is really needed, but at least a start in the right direction for those looking for the thing Revs best can deliver - control!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, John -- I get the idea! Jeez, you only gotta say it once.

But seriously, they have this stuff called paper, and this stuff called ink with which one can make magic symbols on the paper. They could call it instructions, but it would take much of the mysticism out of flying the Rev. Like repeated crashes at full speed. Like hideously twisted lines (which is what a beginner sees if the kite spins twice). Like not being able to react because the kite moves too fast. Really, it would make learning much less memorable.

OMG, what a nightmare that would be!!!

John, you and I flew together at Busse Woods in Illinois. You know how much brake I use (lots). When I give my handles to a beginner I only bring the tops back two knots. Then I tell them how to get it airborne and keep it there. The same thing can be done in print with this as the first line:

If you don't READ THIS the kite won't fly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, quirky interface. :P

End of the day, I tend to be pretty simple about tuning... Let the leaders ALL THE WAY out, then pull 'em back one knot at a time until YOU'RE happy with the experience. :)

Every month or two, repeat the process and a flier's "happy knot" will typically get further and further out, especially when they learn the inverted hover.

Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, quirky interface. :P

End of the day, I tend to be pretty simple about tuning... Let the leaders ALL THE WAY out, then pull 'em back one knot at a time until YOU'RE happy with the experience. :)

Every month or two, repeat the process and a flier's "happy knot" will typically get further and further out, especially when they learn the inverted hover.

Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In reading some of this topic it does sound confusing at times. Like bringing the knots in if it doesn't launch, but no mention of the kites position on the ground = leading edge up or leading edge down. What's a hover? is a hover 6" off the ground and not moving in any direction? What's inverted? and when does the now normal inverted become uninverted? Is it possible to hover 6" off the ground inverted relatively still for any amount of time then turning the kite uninverted and doing the same without any leader adjustments?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, hyzakite said:

In reading some of this topic it does sound confusing at times. Like bringing the knots in if it doesn't launch, but no mention of the kites position on the ground = leading edge up or leading edge down. What's a hover? is a hover 6" off the ground and not moving in any direction? What's inverted? and when does the now normal inverted become uninverted? Is it possible to hover 6" off the ground inverted relatively still for any amount of time then turning the kite uninverted and doing the same without any leader adjustments?

1.  Bringing the knots/lines in towards the handle if the kite won't launch is when the kite is in the upright position: VV, leading edge up.

2.  A hover is holding the kite motionless, in any position, anywhere in the wind window -- so yes, 6" off the ground and not moving is a hover.

3.  Inverted is the opposite of upright -- see item #1. Left hover is leading edge to the left, Right hover is leading edge to the right.

4.  Yes, you can hover 6" off the ground inverted, completely motionless, and then turn it over (to upright) and hover in the same spot, motionless, without making adjustments, if the leader setting being used is such that the kite is pitched forward enough to provide the necessary amount of lift to hold the hover, and/or the wind is sufficient, and/or if you provide the necessary lift by moving backwards. (This, item#4, is difficult for beginning pilots to understand and accomplish, as it requires enough time-on-the-lines/experience, developing a "feel" for the kite and the wind, and constant minute adjustments in control inputs.)

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, fire away, no matter how "dumb" you might feel about asking. We have all started at the same place, and have experienced the same things you are at this point in you kite flying "career". I am always ready to help reduce the amount of grief and frustration you may feel at times, because I've been there, and after seven years of flying quad-lines still get miffed when something new doesn't happen for me as easily as I thought it would. 

Hang tough, smile, and don't forget to breathe.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

makatakam, what you just said as in definition language is great ... ... I like this alot ... never knew how to say it right

Quote

Left hover is leading edge to the left ... Right hover is leading edge to the right.

... and please feel free to add more tricks & definitions for those words there ... http://kitelife.com/forum/topic/6743-a-list-of-individual-trick-name-name-of-movementpath/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, so what makes upright on a quad kite that flies in any direction? Is it because the words on the kite is upright? Why is vv upright? Why can't ^^ be upright? I setup to fly with leading edge down, I launch with leading down, I park my revs leading edge down, so could upright where ever that may be, be predominantly leading edge down/or most weight of the kite outward from the center? That's the messed up part of not able to launch by bringing the lines in knot at a time when you might be making things worse. Just like trying to launch an older rev1 that came with unequalized lines but trying to launch and fly it with equalized lines. If it is the word/s on the kite at determine direction of what is upright what about the rev nym and other revs that are labeled on the side of the kite sideways. And I bet you wonder why I'm hyzakite.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, hyzakite said:

Ok, so what makes upright on a quad kite that flies in any direction? Is it because the words on the kite is upright? Why is vv upright? Why can't ^^ be upright? I setup to fly with leading edge down, I launch with leading down, I park my revs leading edge down, so could upright where ever that may be, be predominantly leading edge down/or most weight of the kite outward from the center? That's the messed up part of not able to launch by bringing the lines in knot at a time when you might be making things worse. Just like trying to launch an older rev1 that came with unequalized lines but trying to launch and fly it with equalized lines. If it is the word/s on the kite at determine direction of what is upright what about the rev nym and other revs that are labeled on the side of the kite sideways. And I bet you wonder why I'm hyzakite.

And if you fly it all day the way you parked and launched it, then you are the "reverse flight" guru of all time. A few times a year I like to do a backwards day. Forward flight is not allowed for at least an hour. I usually never make it past the 20-minute mark, but I try. Up, down, sideways, forward, reverse -- I don't look at them as directions; merely references that determine which way I went.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is the sun bright and moon made of green cheese??

All the directions (inverted, upright, left, right) are taken from the relationship with the LE! That is the "so called" point of reference for all direction, (up, down, etc).

(Wonder why it's called "the leading edge"?) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/15/2016 at 6:20 PM, hyzakite said:

I'm one of those stubborn guys that believe flying a masterpiece rev upside down just doesn't look right! I also enjoy flying inches from the ground at times and small windows, going back to the old style flying brings back memories, you know!

I'm ok at flying with flying long top leaders, I'm also ok with flying nubs as top leaders! Some quad kites don't look correct leading edge down, some can't fly right with leading edge up. I fly my revs the way I feel they was meant to be flown.

Wanted to post a thought after reading the above comment but hesitated as this topic seemed to be headed even further.  Now it seems to be getting quite cerebral & I am enjoying the thoughtful discussion immensely.  So my mind drifts to other thoughts about my own style of flight.  As time has gone on flying Revolution kites I pause to reflect on what might shape my relationship with this Sportwing in the sky.   So I like to listen to old rock & roll as I cruise around.  It hits me.  Blue Oyster Cult sings a song that's not about kites but mentions the force that fascinates me with quads, "Dominance and Submission" .  I am endlessly entertained by making the kite do things that are contrary to normal forward flight.  I especially love flying backwards.  I dominate the kite & it submits!  Wow! that's it!  What's this have to do with this topic?

Know Eye Deer, SHBKF

"Yeah the radio was on, can't you dig the locomotion"

"Kingdoms of the radio 45 R-P-M, too much Revolution, then"

"In Times Square now, people do the polka, Dominance, submission, radios appear"

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 6:20 PM, hyzakite said:

I'm one of those stubborn guys that believe flying a masterpiece rev upside down just doesn't look right! I also enjoy flying inches from the ground at times and small windows, going back to the old style flying brings back memories, you know!

I'm ok at flying with flying long top leaders, I'm also ok with flying nubs as top leaders! Some quad kites don't look correct leading edge down, some can't fly right with leading edge up. I fly my revs the way I feel they was meant to be flown.

I guess what I tried to say was "some" masterpiece revs don't look correct in the sky flown upside down. So I would give them a lot of forward. And lock them in in forward. 99.9% of the time I use regular revs with long top leaders and play in every part of the window.

010.jpg

020.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SHBKF said:

Wanted to post a thought after reading the above comment but hesitated as this topic seemed to be headed even further.  Now it seems to be getting quite cerebral & I am enjoying the thoughtful discussion immensely.  So my mind drifts to other thoughts about my own style of flight.  As time has gone on flying Revolution kites I pause to reflect on what might shape my relationship with this Sportwing in the sky.   So I like to listen to old rock & roll as I cruise around.  It hits me.  Blue Oyster Cult sings a song that's not about kites but mentions the force that fascinates me with quads, "Dominance and Submission" .  I am endlessly entertained by making the kite do things that are contrary to normal forward flight.  I especially love flying backwards.  I dominate the kite & it submits!  Wow! that's it!  What's this have to do with this topic?

Know Eye Deer, SHBKF

"Yeah the radio was on, can't you dig the locomotion"

"Kingdoms of the radio 45 R-P-M, too much Revolution, then"

"In Times Square now, people do the polka, Dominance, submission, radios appear"

 

Deep Ralph............deep ! B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to revive this thread guys. But I just bought JB's leaders made by Tk. Awesome stuff. I am follwing the procedures of finding the happy knot from the furthest out. But what about the bottom line? Which knot do I put to begin with? Also at what kinda winds conditions should I be tuning to cos we don't really get good winds in Singapore sad to say. 

Best regards, 

Vin

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Outside last knot. We use the lower knots to equalize lines.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank You Wayne. 

May I know Other than launching after finding the happy knot, what other maneuvers should I try to see if I am on the right track to ensure I'm not to bias in forward or reverse drive? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Video Tutorials

  • Site Sponsors

  • Similar Content

    • By John Barresi
      This tutorial from Kitelife.com breaks down basic tuning methodology for most indoor dual line sport / stunt kites.

      You can look forward to a growing collection of similar tutorials covering equipment, flight techniques and other "pro secrets" gathered from over 20 years in the kiting community... A number of them will be available here on YouTube, while the majority of these tutorials will be located in the Kitelife Subscribers section, be sure to subscribe today if you like what we're doing here!
    • By GCKC
      Looking at a Brand-new 5- piece, 2-wrap frameset for a Revolution 1.5.  This frame has never been installed or flown, in original Rev packaging. 2 Wrap rods are the lightest and most fragile rods for outdoor use. These rods have a similar stiffness to the 3-wrap and 4-wrap rods. These rods are best suited for low wind. 2-wrap rods are identified by their label with 2 feathers, the words “Professional Use ” with an internal diameter of 1/4 inch.


      Drawing will take place in the evening (Mountain-Standard time) of January 5, 2018.
      To enter, reply here with "I'm in."
      Numbers will be assigned in order of entry, and the Random Number Generator will choose a number. Good luck. 
      Draw Date January 5, 2018
      In so far:
      @Breezin @Mike Klaiber @elmo264 @Wooljr Winner is: @Mike Klaiber
      Admin approved: One time change to the rules below as I live in Canada - I will ship anywhere in Canada for FREE.  My dear American friends who live on the Continental USA (Including Alaska)  I am most pleased to carry the bulk of the shipping cost but request $10 cdn to offset some of the cost to ship to the Land of the Free & Home of the Brave.
      =====
      Some rules and guidelines:
      Don’t play unless you’re willing to put up a prize and ship it to whoever wins.
      Shipping is paid by the original poster, the winner pays nothing. Be prepared to ship your prize anywhere in the lower 48 US States. Sorry, but due to shipping costs, we really have to limit this to the lower 48 US States.
      RULE CHANGE (7/31/2014): Members from Canada, Alaska, and Hawaii are welcome to enter the Karma drawings provided they are willing to pay half of the Karma prize shipping cost. The method and timing of the payment will be agreed upon between the two parties after the drawing for a particular prize.
      You can choose the length of the giveaway, but keep it between 1 and 2 weeks.
      Try to ship the prize promptly. You should be able to ship it within a week, but if you can’t, PM the winner and let them know. Sometimes life gets in the way! This whole thing works on the honor system so if there are any problems shipping or receiving a prize, it needs to be worked out between the two parties. Don’t forget…Karma!
      This isn’t a competition, but feel free to be generous! If you can only put up a hat, or a tail for a stunt kite, great! If you have something in your kite bag that you never fly and would be willing to ship, that’s great too. Either way, the people that join to win it will appreciate it.
      When you receive your prize, post a thank you to the thread where you won it. 
      The thread will be locked after that point so the new **KARMA** stays above it.
      Good luck, and have fun!

    • By happysuperbutton
      Hi Kitelifers, 
      Edit: August 21 2017 - Follow my Rev Kite learning journey (from day zero to present) in this thread!! Join me, share the failures and achievements, feel free to chime in if you read something you experienced too!
      I'm brand spanking new hoping to make some awesome new kite friends in the San Francisco Bay area..I'm in Santa Clara and frequent the Kite Lot in Mountain view by Google, flying RC stuff secretly.
      Ive done research and know there's a Bay Area kite sport league or something, and big kite groups up in Berkeley.
      That's just too far for my tight schedule.
      So hoping to meet some folks around closer here that will be willing to "take me under their wing" (or kite).
      I'm madly interested in the Rev kites.
      Actually I'm this close to dropping my wallet for the new EXP Rx kite, but at the same time, I really rather just get the Classic 1.5 and spend longer in the learning curve.
      I don't mean to start anything with the kite naming here, I'm just going with what is available to me today as a new comer.  I am aware of the history of Rev and the whole rebranding debacle that happened recently (yes, I've been lurking and researching a ton on Rev kites already even though I've never touched one yet)
      A mentor and flying friend on the weekends will be awesome, hoping to meet someone really soon whos willing to help guide me to my first purchase. The summer is already here and the winds are insane!
      Thanks and appreciate all of you.
    • By Matt G
      So I have had my Rev Reflex RX for 3 days and the wind has been ok to fly every day, I'm down in Plymouth in the UK and we never struggle for a sea breeze and living 500m from a huge set of public football pitches on top of a hill it is one of the best flying sites for miles. 
      The first day the wind was a little light and variable with a 30 deg shift in direction which made my first experience of flying a quad a "challenge" to say the least only ever flying dual line stunt kites before it was mentally very challenging to get the inputs of the quad correct and when things happened quickly my instincts as a duel liner took over often ending on me "landing" unexpectedly, but as the evening wore on I started to get used to the feel of the extra bottom lines and could fly a box and figure 8 to some fashion.
       The second evening the wind was a little stronger and from a steady direction and I could really get the kite moving concentrating firstly on the box shapes then figure 8's the controls started to feel normal but not instinctive and I have to analyze what I did and how it affected the movement of the kite. Next was the hover which is much much harder than all the YouTube videos make it look! I had little success with it I feel that I must be over controlling the kite as it wants to race forwards but I can back it down very slowly but can't find the "bite" when it stops and wants to hover yet. 
      Day 3 and after an hour of single line flying with my son the wind felt good and steady so I set up the Rev again and really had a great time oh god this is fun to fly really felt comfortable in flying it around hovers did start to come together, I found them much easier at the top and bottom of the wind window, on the edges it veered off sliding and in the centre it was like a caged animal trying to race upwards! I felt comfatable enough to try an inverted stop and managed it a few times nicely but I lost my nerve and was pulling up high and about 2m above the ground, it did stop wonderfully but again my brain started to hurt working out inputs of the kite flying backward and upsidedown! but fun none the less.
      Sorry to of gone on but I'm still buzzing from flying and had to tell someone... well anyone...you lot....
      Matt 
       
    • By happysuperbutton
      Got one thnx!
      Wanting to buy a used Revolution kite!
      Eyeing a 1.5 B-series, midvent, 3wrap. Since it's gonna be a first ever quad, I'll also be looking for handles and lines.
      Preference for local deals so we could meet up and skip the hassle of packing for shipping and all that extra effort.
      Feel free to PM me too, thanks all and really appreciate it!
      Also looking for any 1.5 style rev (Reflex, Classic, vented, etc.) If you're thinking of letting one of your revs go, pm me please! Has to be RTF.
  • Upcoming Events