SHBKF Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Have a bit of experience with rock climbing gear & especially as applied to vertical caving. Caving is upside down mountaineering in the mud & dark, rappel in & climb out. The Black Diamond carabiner is a good one & I have bet my life on similar ones many times. They are made of aluminum alloy to be strong & light. Light so you can carry many of them. The simple gate is so you can clip in quickly with one hand. Some are available with a threaded locking sleeve to keep the gate closed & would be used on your body harness. They are heavier & much stronger. But if you want an even stronger link go to a farm supply store & buy some steel ones with the threaded nut gates. They are cheap, tough & much more resistant to abrasion. I use this type on my safety chains on trailers. I also like the pictures of the big sand anchor. That is called a dead man by some. Winter mountaineering uses the same style anchors in snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted September 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Have a bit of experience with rock climbing gear & especially as applied to vertical caving. Caving is upside down mountaineering in the mud & dark, rappel in & climb out. The Black Diamond carabiner is a good one & I have bet my life on similar ones many times. They are made of aluminum alloy to be strong & light. Light so you can carry many of them. The simple gate is so you can clip in quickly with one hand. Some are available with a threaded locking sleeve to keep the gate closed & would be used on your body harness. They are heavier & much stronger. But if you want an even stronger link go to a farm supply store & buy some steel ones with a threaded nut gates. They are cheap, tough & much more resistant to abrasion. I use this type on my safety chains on trailers. I also like the pictures of the big sand anchor. That is called a dead man by some. Winter mountaineering uses the same style anchors in snow. Pay attention if you use the chain type. I use this style when making line sets.... You may need to do some smoothing on the inside loop to avoid line damage. A small file,Drexel,etc. Works great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Have a bit of experience with rock climbing gear & especially as applied to vertical caving. Caving is upside down mountaineering in the mud & dark, rappel in & climb out. The Black Diamond carabiner is a good one & I have bet my life on similar ones many times. They are made of aluminum alloy to be strong & light. Light so you can carry many of them. The simple gate is so you can clip in quickly with one hand. Some are available with a threaded locking sleeve to keep the gate closed & would be used on your body harness. They are heavier & much stronger. But if you want an even stronger link go to a farm supply store & buy some steel ones with the threaded nut gates. They are cheap, tough & much more resistant to abrasion. I use this type on my safety chains on trailers. I also like the pictures of the big sand anchor. That is called a dead man by some. Winter mountaineering uses the same style anchors in snow. Pay attention if you use the chain type. I use this style when making line sets.... You may need to do some smoothing on the inside loop to avoid line damage. A small file,Drexel,etc. Works great. Yep, I did have a few of those "steel links, with threaded gates", that I likewise use for trailer safety chains, etc. I decided not to use them for the kites, simply because of the weight, and the "not so slick" finish. The "Black Diamond" ovals are extremely smooth, and besides, the price wasn't bad at all. I also prefer the spring-loaded gate, in the Black Diamonds, which makes hooking up, and disconnecting lines, quick and easy. I also use some of the cheap-o (150 lb) carabiners in my shop, when making line sets, and I have used them for anchoring small deltas, flown in light air on 50 lb line, but I surely wouldn't trust those on a big kite (does snap / ping / yikes, ring a bell ?), especially when the line strength being used, is much greater than the strength of the carabiner itself. As mentioned before, something else in the "chain", will break long before these Black Diamond Carabiners (18kN). The strength of my flight line is measured in "hundreds" of pounds, while these things are rated in "thousands". Not even a fair fight.............. If anyone is interested in getting a few, check out > http://www.silvertipmountaincenter.com/silvertipmountaincenter_i9798717.html?catId=384178 shipping is fast and always free. On-line is just so easy ! There's lots of different styles, for different applications, as DayHiker alluded to, however the "oval" is nice and symmetrical, very easy to operate, and it's about 4 inches long. It just feels good in the hand. I got myself a couple of these, and made a 3' - 4' nylon strap for each, with a loop in each end of the straps. This way, I can hook the carabiner directly to the the loops of my "sand anchor", or run the strap through those loops, and then hook on the carabiner. The extra straps are also nice, to be able to quickly hook to a stationary object (i.e. tree, post, deck railing, etc), and then attach your flight lines directly to the carabiner............. Hey, whatever works......... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 Yes, the aluminum carabiners even hold up to even a full true horsepower. I use old ones to tether the horses to picket lines. The steel links are cheap & easy to find. But they are not elegant. When setting a bolt & hangar as a permanent climbing aid I sometimes leave the steel ones in place but I think my climbing days are past. Maybe the motorcycle days are done too, but I digress.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I have seen some pics of the end results.... I meant to comment and slipped my mind. Being a rookie...could you not use a couple of wraps on the hook with one wrap back around the line? I saw a video not to long ago on good ways to tie off large Kites..think it was Premier. I've been using a regular lark's head knot, in the hook of the carabiner, then applying several wraps of line over top of the lark's head. Seems to work fine, and it held up in 25+ mph winds on my big sled kite, without any slippage, at all. I'm thinking that I won't have anything that's going to be pulling any harder than that. (Oh, they make bigger kites, eh ?) Hmmm! Another method of attaching the line to the carabiner, is called the Spanish knot, which is illustrated in this link from Gomberg Kites. Seems like a very simple hook-up.............. http://www.gombergkites.com/faq/faq-span.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHBKF Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 A figure eight knot is a good one too. Simple to tie as a terminal end knot & does not reduce the line load capacity like some other knots. It's another of the "bet your life on it" knots I've employed in a free hanging repel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 A figure eight knot is a good one too. Simple to tie as a terminal end knot & does not reduce the line load capacity like some other knots. It's another of the "bet your life on it" knots I've employed in a free hanging repel. I think that the reason many people use the lark's head, and maybe even the "Spanish Knot", when hooking up to a carabiner, is because most of the time, they are hooking into a flight line, at some mid-point, rather than to the terminal end, although I agree, you can do the same thing, but you will be working with a doubled line. Also, the knot does need to be something that can be loosened and removed from the carabiner quickly, in case of a problem, whereas, a figure eight knot would take some fumbling to untie (for me, anyway), especially with the tension from the kite pulling against you. You'd nearly need a third hand, just to hold the kite, while you untied it, wouldn't you? Either way, I likewise use a figure-eight knot, as you mentioned, for a terminal knot in other applications, and I agree, it's going to "be there", until you remove it. The knotted portion of the figure eight, looks very much like the knotted portion of a bowline (another of my favorite & trusted knots, just not for kite flying). I do like knots, the ones that I tie, anyway. You know what they say, "one thing that you can't buy, is a good knot", you have to tie it yourself ! Sounds like some of your past hobbies (rappelling, climbing, free hanging, etc), require that very skill, especially when your life depends on that knot.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted September 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I guess what I do is not even a knot. Like attaching line laundry ...gombergs has a pic... I do 3 simple loops around the clamp,and then a loop around the line on top of the clamp and back through the clamp. Then when its time to move or something.. it slides right off , no fumbling. I am always with them though and no major pull kites yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reef Runner Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I guess it's whatever works for you, but when you get that big kite, you might just need more than a few wraps, etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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