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knot question?


cyenobite
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Hey all,

I recently purchased a "beetle" for a weeks vacation in CA. I had it shipped to where I was staying with my sister. I took it out, and attempted to fly it at a local park, and after several frustrating launches, realized something was not right... The strings were NOT of equal length! I ended up holding it by the string and not the wrist strap, because I wasn't sure how to re-tie the knot for attaching the string to the strap. I'm back home now, and will have my sister ship the kite back home to me some time soon, and I would like to know how to untie the existing knot and retie it again at it's proper length. Can some one point me to the correct way to tie this particular knot? I'd hate to start untieing it, only to become confused. I tried to look at the knot closely but could not understand it. It appears as though the white kite string is going into two double knots of the black string attached to the strap. But I don't see any loose ends.

Any help with this would be appreciated.

Should I even attempt this? or should i try to send the string back to coastal kites for a replacement?

Thanks

J

PS> I don't know if this was related, but I had a heck of a time flying this kite in the park. I think it was due to the fact that it was not a very big field, and that the park was surrounded by tall trees. In spite of a LOT of wind, I found the kite to be very eratic! There were times I would launch it, only for it to float down as if there were no wind - yet the leaves in the trees were blowing like crazy. Can the tree's cause that much wind turbulance? or does it sound like the kite might be flawed, or need adjustments? I spent 95% of the time just trying to keep the kite airborn, with no time for tricks. thoughts?

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Where in California does your sister live? Lots of kiteshops out here, GREAT customer support! Don’t be afraid to drop in at any of them. Helping other kiteflyers is good for business!

If you bought the Beetle 2100+, you have quality Dyneema lines. Only 1% stretch. But with eighty feet of line, that’s still a stretch of over eight inches. I thought stretch was like a rubber band. Nope. The stretch stays there. Kiteflyers naturally pull harder on one line than the other, so there’s that one string that will always become longer as you use a new lineset.

I’ve also seen several instances with both Flying Wings and New Tech where brand new lines are uneven. This forced me to learn to retie the sleeving of my lines. You shouldn’t be inhibited by this, patience and accuracy are all that’s needed for the learning curve. I used this website to help me. http://www.jmamede.com/kitesen/ Click on Tips and Tricks. A kiteshop verbally explained how it was done, but these pictures helped a lot more.

I’m on my way out of the door right now, gonna teach a guy to fly a Trlby he’d bought and was afraid to fly. I get a picnic lunch and a new friendship out of it. Be back tonight with details of retying your sleeving. Would also like to learn from the rest of you guys out there how YOU cope with this problem.

By the way, for every ten feet in height of an obstruction, there’s 7 times that in wind turbulence. Don’t give up on your Beetle, it’s the best beginners’ kite I’ve flown! kitepilot

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The site kitepilot lists above is an excellent look at how to shorten and sleeve lines. Its really easy once you've done it a few times.

I've gone back to making my own linesets as the cost and availability of quad lines sets here in Vancouver has gotten a little silly.

90 bucks canadian for 100' / 80lb? I think not, but, importing them often isn't much better. What I did was go to a local fishing supply store, found some tuf line (which is 100% spectra. This cost me 53 bucks for 900 feet. Once you get it down, cutting a sleeving a set of lines takes less than an hour, do it while watching the TV.

:P

For cyenobite, with respect to places to fly, "oceanfront" beach is -always- the best, but, not always possible for everyone. You are looking for a large, clear area, preferably with a few buildings, trees, obstructions as possible. All of those create turbulence no matter how great the wind seems to be blowing. Best of luck,

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That white string of your sleeved kiteline is usually Spectra or Dyneema. Lines are sleeved because knots reduce line strength, as much as a half. The white kiteline is run thru colored Dacron Sleeve to increase the strength at knots. If you’d like to know everything about these strings, read R Moore’s well researched report at http://www.kiterecord.org/Kite%20altitude%...es/Page1134.htm Thanks Bob, Great Job!!!

Here’s how I match the lengths of my flying lines…

I stake both bridle ends of the line to the ground with a fondue skewer. I stretch out both 80 foot lines to the max and clamp them about 18 inches from the straps to my WorkMate portable worktable with a block of wood and a clamp. Remove the strap and undo the knots of the sleeve on the longest line using a knitting needle or slender probe (the hardest part of the whole job). Slide the sleeve up the line and tie an overhand knot at the very end to prevent the sleeving from slipping off. Slide the dacron sleeve back and match it to the short line. Fold the dacron in half and tie an overhand knot EXACTLY matching the position of the knot on the opposing line. Tie another overhand knot at the short end as shown in the photos of this website… http://www.jmamede.com/kitesen/

Voila! Matched flying lines. Like Monkey says, it takes less than an hour and quicker the more often you make a new lineset.

That’s how I do It. How do the rest of you guys do It? Do you all do It naked or fully clothed? Post photos if you do It naked!!!! :devil: kitepilot

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Monkey – Spectra Fishing Line! Great Idea! Fantastic! Outstanding! AND Frugal! I gotta get me some!

1. What, exactly, is the brand name of the Spectra Fishing Line?

2. Does it come in colors, like orange? (To stop the idiot that crosses the flying field while talking on the cell phone from tripping over an outstretched flying line. OK, that was me!)

3. Salt water, freshwater, or fly line?

4. What is the brand name of the Dacron sleeve you use?

Thanks for the wonderful idea. Kitepilot

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I would never even consider store bought lines anymore. I just so like the ones I make on a board with a couple of nails in it and some inch marks drawn on it. I made up 3 linesets for me and my pairs partner last night in the space of an hour.

The beauty of this is that I know they are accurate and they are made correctly. I also just love to fly new sleeved lines. They feel so good and look so purdy. Of course, I usually fly my old lines untill they lock up with 5 wraps and they look as hairy as my ears! :devil:

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Monkey – Spectra Fishing Line! Great Idea! Fantastic! Outstanding! AND Frugal! I gotta get me some!

1. What, exactly, is the brand name of the Spectra Fishing Line?

2. Does it come in colors, like orange? (To stop the idiot that crosses the flying field while talking on the cell phone from tripping over an outstretched flying line. OK, that was me!)

3. Salt water, freshwater, or fly line?

4. What is the brand name of the Dacron sleeve you use?

Thanks for the wonderful idea. Kitepilot

Well, here, it was called Tuf Line, and the only criteria I used in selction was "100% spectra", with no respect to salt, fresh, fly. Weight and content was all I worried about.

Another brand name is Spider Line, however their line seems to be all light weight stuff, ie, 10 pounds.

Sleeving? I just had a few pieces around, so, no idea. Some was from a Shanti sleeving kit.

Im going to look into it further, I know of green line, but, that may not be too great on grass :devil:

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Thanks everyone! Especially Kitepiolot's link with the explantion and photos. I just assumed it was a simple knot, not realizing it was "sleeved" I've not heard of this term before. I will defintely give this a try once I get the kite shipped back to me from my sister.

I am looking forward to flying the beetle as i noticed it was a much lighter kite than my other "Hype" design. It seems like it would take less wind - which is good here in Jersey. I've not had too many good windy days! Unless I take a 2 hour trip down to the beach.

This was defintely not stretch that caused this uneven string. It was almost one exact revolution around the string winder. And I barely had the kite in the air when i noticed the uneven strings.

I'm sure I'll get it figured out.

One further question:

While in CA on my last day there, I was assuming I would get one last chance to fly my kite, so I knotted up the line to take out the additional slack. But as it turns out, I never actually flew it. I saw that you said by knotting the string, weakens the string almost 50%... Do you think I've done damge to the string just by tying the knot and not flying it?

I was disappointed in not finding any good kite shops. I was in the Berkeley area, and the only kite shop I was able to find online was the "chinatown kite shop" in SF. (which was extremely disapointing... nothing but trashy junk kites for the tourists. I thought I'd see some really nice asia style kites.) I should have thought to post a message here on the boards before my trip, but didn't think of it. Oh well.

Thanks again all, and thanks for the tips on alternative string sources too.

Looking forward to "sleeving" on my own.

Cyen

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  • 11 months later...

Good morning~

When I make lines I use a magic marker.

Whether on a board, or stretched out I'll hold all 4 lines together, mark them across with the marker at least 6 inches from the end. I use the mark as the spot where I fold the line to create the end loop. tying a knot where ever I want. 4-8" down.

The mark is now the end of my line. The loop is larks headed on to the handles or bridle of the kite.

Making release knots makes life much easier. A short string w/overhand knot to make it a little circle to larks head onto the loop. When you go to take the line off of your kite, you tug on the little loop and it loosens the large loop. This is ssooooo much easier then using your teeth, or sand grinded fingernails. I wish I put release knots on all my kites. :)

BB

Penny

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