povlhp Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Not discussing preferences, what does different rods give to the kite, particularly a quad ? Is it all about weight with the 2-wrap, 3-wrap, 4-wrap all being of more or less same stiffness ? And less weight is lower wind abilities. Race frames are more flexible. So they will influence flight directly from this What does a P90 give over the others ? Lighter than all the rev frames, and liked by some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystainedskin Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Weight,flex,return of flex....price. It is the ability to fine tune your kite for just about all conditions. You don't want so much flex that you lose the belly (pressure) in the sail and the ability for the kite to react quickly from inputs. Everyones preferences will be different...it's basically a fly it and see if it feels good for you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The wrap frames are stiffer and weigh more as you go up in wraps, But they do have a similar style of flex. You are correct in that the race is more flexible, but it also has a much different way about it. The return to straight and not "bouncing" can be used to great advantage. Never have tried a set of rods made of P 90s, but have heard they are lighter for low winds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
povlhp Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 I read in multiple places that heavier rods = slower kite. So not only about low wind capabilities. I guess as a relative newbie, I should use heavier rods when possible. Probably also why the classic 1.5 is with SLE, and the EXP are heavy rods as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfish Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 FYI, the EXP does not use heavy rods. They are the same as the 3 wrap. I use my EXP frame and my other 3 wrap frames interchangeably (whichever one is more convenient to get when I need a 3 wrap frame) in any 1.5 sized kite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 10-4 on dragonfish's comment! The EXP has unmarked or EXP marked rods, that are 3 wraps in disguise. No difference there. There is a big difference in the SLE rods. A much larger diameter and almost no flex at all. Great learning rods, but most toss them after getting past the early crashing learning curve. Personally, I've never used them, the 3 wrap 1/4" rods provide all the strength needed. All the 1.5 rods are interchangeable in all the 1.5 size sails. To a degree, I agree on using heavier rods to learn on. The lighter rods are slightly more fragile, not bad for the experienced flier. And it's not so much a case of fragile, but they don't tolerate hits at an angle as well. But taking all this in mind, the lighter tubes do still have their place. What's important is having a certain amount of bend in the leading edge. I look for a certain amount of flex, if that gets exceeded, I either change frames or change kites. Now I haven't any experience on your Transeye (all my experience is with Revs), so I have no idea of how difficult the rods are to swap. But lighter or heavier rods (stiffness) should change the way it works. Also not sure how a mixed combination of rods in that sail might work! As for speed - I can't say that there is a direct relationship between rod weight and speed. I will say it's more about control! Too light a rod will flex too much in higher winds and you lose control. Heavier (less flexible) will return the control back to you in the same winds - but up to a point! Get conditions that are above the sail's capabilities and no rods will fix any problems. Say it's gusty - the heavy rods work great for that, but then are a burden during lulls. Not knowing, do the Rev rods match up in length? Or can you make more frames from other Sky Shark P series rods? You'll need to figure in whatever is used for ferrules also. But making your own is a definite money saving move, if you can and want to. If you do make your own, find out what you have now, so you don't duplicate what you already have! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
povlhp Posted January 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Transeye likes flex. People only change center in higher wind. It has skyshark/ rev compatible rods. P200 like. Getting a rev derived vented as well. Can I use one size center with different sides (not verticals) in LE? Or will outer diameter difference wear out the pocket ? Easier to change that way. The vents in the Freilein windrider X is more like the weave than the rev. Distributed across the surface. And I think it is much better looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 As long as the 3 rods making up the leading edge are the same diameter, ie 1/4" rods, then you can mix and match to your hearts content. DO NOT MIX 1/4" rods and the bigger 1/2"(?) rods, as one will slip right over the other or might separate, causing the outer to split! Really not too difficult to seat same diameter rods, just work on getting them right. That also means getting them fully seated together for strength. Gaps can cause splitting! Some take a piece of sandpaper to the ferrules and taper them slightly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
povlhp Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I thought the diameter was the internal diameter (only have 1 size of rods), and would expect 3-wrap to have a larger outer diameter than 2-wrap, and thus using different center piece would have sharp edges from the outside LE elements wear down the pocket. It is the inner diameter that is 7 mm. I can see the Skyshark goes from 0.275" to 0.300" in outer diameter (from P90 -> P400). That is a difference of 0.025" or 0.635mm. Enough to increase wear on the pocket if it moves. Of course if you use a mid-sized center, it is only 0.3 mm. The optimal solution might be sanding both ends of the center, and one end of the outside LE spart down to 0.275", so everything will have one common diameter where it meets. But maybe I am overthinking things here. Or should just replace all 3 at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkieRob Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 One thing with Rev rods, it's the internal diameter that is the measured one. The ferrule the joins the 2 rods is the same from Diamond to 4 Wrap. That's how you can mix and match different rods to create a different flexing leading edge. The difference in outer diameter would be very negligible. How thick is a wrap of carbon? The other thing with Revs and their frames is by redistributing the weight gives different flight dynamics. Not just actual flying but also slack line tricks. Don't limit yourself to a frame made only of the same rods, mix up with different weights and flex. The results will surprise you. That and holes can be patched. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Do not sand the outsides past the point of removing more than the clear finish!!! Removing black material means you are starting to remove wrapping material! You're compromising the rod's integrity. Any tube shape is very strong until that shape is messed with in any way. Rob is right - the actual difference between any rod combo is almost negligible. We regularly use a mix of different rods and have noticed no problems. In my Zen I've used a mixed frame in the leading edge for over a year now and noticed no issues. Even in my SUL which has a lighter material pocket, again using mixed rods has caused no problems over a 4-5 year period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbailey49 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Any wear from using a mix of rods on the leading edge is so minuscule that the sail will be worn out long before you see anything due to the slight variation in leading edge spar thickness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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