makatakam Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I understand and agree with everything you said Paul. If you look back a few pages on this thread, I believe I talked about what ive done with my leaders so far which was that I too off the bottom leaders and larksheaded the stock bottom leaders to the top stock leaders. And for the bottom leaders, I have a type of string (cheap, but strong and its been working as a temporary fix for now) that I made into 1" leaders for the bottom. My kite has no problems backing up from an inverted position at all. Funds aren't a major concern really. I just need to find someplace where I can get 10' - 12' of bridle line without having to pay $16 in shipping. PM your address to me. I just bought 100 yards this past winter for projects on which I am working. It's red, but the price is right. I'll mail you some, no charge. Make the leaders, you'll like them. Edit: Just cut and weighed 20 feet for you, a whole 1/4 ounce. I'll cover postage if you try to get a newbie started/hooked, at least one per year. Deal? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted August 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Thank you Makatakam, I do appreciate that. Sadly, this is such a small town that I live in that in my 8 years of flying stunt kites, I have only met one other stunt kite flier. I made friends with him and we would fly together quite a bit. But sadly, he moved out of state couple years ago and ive yet to see another stunt kite flier in my area. Seems like the only interest my kite(s) generate are kids trying to chase it. Though I did have one lady that was curious when I was flying my Rev one day and while I was flying it, I was explaining to her how the handles controlled it and I passed the handles to her so she could have a feel of what it was like in the air. She was so worried of doing something wrong and end up breaking it. But I felt confident in my explanation of how to hold it still in the air when I passed her the handles. And for the quick minute she had control of the Rev, she did quite good actually. Though she got a little scared when the kite started to veer off to one side more than she liked and quickly handed me back the handles. But she had a smile on her face and really enjoyed that quick experience flying the Rev. I also did have one kid that asked me what brand the kite was, and he seemed interested till he asked how much it was. I've yet to see him around again even though he lives across the street from the field. So if those two count them im good for that deal for 2 years. But with as small and sparse this town is, all I can do is try to hold to that dead as best as I can, but I cant make any guarantees on the people (unfortunately). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Excuses, excuses, excuses. Just PM your address so I can send you the line. I already cut it! Don't make me come down there and deliver it personally. Wait, on second thought........eh, never mind, too far to walk. Seriously, what's first class postage, 43 cents? Ok, you owe me half a Coke. I have the opportunity to post it tomorrow, so if you can get the address to me today, I'll post it in the a.m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 Thank you Makatakam, that is very kind and much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted August 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 I received the bridle line this afternoon and applied them to my handles following Wayne Dowler's setup My 13" handles have top leaders 10" long, with knots starting 5" from handles, and knots 3/4" apart, 7 total!!! For the top leaders, and for my bottom leaders, I have them 1" long with one knot at the half inch mark and the end knot at the 1" end. Now I just need to wait till Monday evening when the winds are good to give the extended pigtails a try, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Sounds like a good setup! What you're trying to achieve is getting a "neutral" for kite. YOU have to make it go in some direction, not it just fly off by itself. With the factory setup you can launch pretty easy. Now you might need to pull and step back to launch. All depends on how far out you go on those tops. But the upside is that you will find it easier to control while flying. And that's the main selling point to these kites - Control!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted August 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Sounds like a good setup! What you're trying to achieve is getting a "neutral" for kite. YOU have to make it go in some direction, not it just fly off by itself. With the factory setup you can launch pretty easy. Now you might need to pull and step back to launch. All depends on how far out you go on those tops. But the upside is that you will find it easier to control while flying. And that's the main selling point to these kites - Control!!! Actually that wont be too hard to do. Earlier on in this thread, ive stated how I removed the stock bottom leaders and larksheaded them to the stock top leaders (and made my own temporary 1" bottom leaders). And with stock leaders having that set up, I had my lines attached to the end of the 2nd leaders. I compared the length of that to the to the new setup (your setup), and that equaled to the 4th knot out. So now i'll have an extra 3 knots out to work with. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Sounds like a good setup! What you're trying to achieve is getting a "neutral" for kite. YOU have to make it go in some direction, not it just fly off by itself. With the factory setup you can launch pretty easy. Now you might need to pull and step back to launch. All depends on how far out you go on those tops. But the upside is that you will find it easier to control while flying. And that's the main selling point to these kites - Control!!! Actually that wont be too hard to do. Earlier on in this thread, ive stated how I removed the stock bottom leaders and larksheaded them to the stock top leaders (and made my own temporary 1" bottom leaders). And with stock leaders having that set up, I had my lines attached to the end of the 2nd leaders. I compared the length of that to the to the new setup (your setup), and that equaled to the 4th knot out. So now i'll have an extra 3 knots out to work with. And use them you will. If not at the moment, then eventually. You may not like it at first, but it will grow on you. When you get strong, gusty wind, you will be amazed at how much you can tame it down by moving out on the top knots. Welcome to the control club. We run things, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted August 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 And use them you will. If not at the moment, then eventually. You may not like it at first, but it will grow on you. When you get strong, gusty wind, you will be amazed at how much you can tame it down by moving out on the top knots. Welcome to the control club. We run things, you know. I'm certain I will! I plan on using John's process of finding out which set of knots work for me. Re tuning for newbies - the best approach I've found for folks trying to find their "feel" on the settings... 1 - Start with good, long top leaders (maybe 12" long with knots spaced 3/4"). 2 - Let your top lines all the way out on the leaders, and try to launch. 3 - If you can't launch, pull in one top knot and try again. 3a - If you can't launch, pull in one top knot and try again. 3b - If you can't launch, pull in one top knot and try again. 3c - If you can't launch, pull in one top knot and try again. Eventually, you should hit a knot where you are *just* able to launch - practice on that knot, and the knot on either side for a minimum of 45 minutes (takes a while for our physical technique to adapt and stick). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcnlarry Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I can't tell you how much this thread has inspired me as a new Rev Pilot. I would even say it should be Required Reading for any new Rev Pilot or "wannabe" pilot. I have very limited experience (learning on my own for the time being) and have 'lived" the dream through this thread and "living the dream through the computer screen and flying via Visa Card, if you get my drift. I have the kites, now it's time to get out there and have the experience. Thanks once again for all the great insight, knowledge, and well intents given by such a great "crew" that resides at this great site. All the best and Happy Flying. Just a new Rev Pilot wannabe, Larry 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Thank you Dcnlarry. That is the exact reason for this thread. When I started off as a dual line flier, I would create a post here and there asking questions, opinions and help. And I got plenty of helpful replies, but the bad thing is those posts would fade off and you would have to use search to find them again (which is no way is a bad thing). When I started this thread three months ago as a total newbie to the Rev, it was originally just to look for help and answers. As it quickly started gaining a lot of views and a lot of helpful posts, I though I would keep it alive as a sort of quasi-journal of my trials, frustrations, success and ramblings not only for myself, but to help other newbie Rev fliers who may have the same questions and frustrations I did, and for others (such as yourself) to vicariously live the experiences of a typical Joe Rev flier. Plus, for some odd reason, people seem to enjoy these little ramblings I post for myself no matter how trivial I think if might be to the seasoned flier. I hope that my posts and all the extremely helpful replies its received help you to have an easier learning curve as a newbie Rev flier and keep you inspired to keep flying even during moments of frustration. I look forward to hearing about your flying experiences with the Rev! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Somehow, either my measurements were off (highly unlikely), or the bridle leaders have stretched. When I made the leaders following Wayne's setup, they were 10" long. Now that I measure them today, they are 10 7/8" long. Could this be due to the knot's tightening while flying? Normally I would think so, but I question it as the leaders on both handles have stretched equally. Yesterday while flying, the winds were a little on the high side so I was able to fly one more knot forward on the leaders. The higher winds made it easier to get used to giving the extra input needed to give the kite its drive forward. It's surprising how much more control even just 3/4" will give you. So now im flying with my top leaders at the 10" mark (and my bottom leaders still at 3/4"). It was frustrating at first to get used to the extra pulling needed to give the kite its forward drive, but I remembered reading in that post of Johns about the leaders, "practice on that knot, and the knot on either side for a minimum of 45 minutes (takes a while for our physical technique to adapt and stick).". And he was correct. After about an hour, I was starting to get the hang of the inputs required for the kites forward drive. More importantly was that it gave me that little extra control on the kite where spin stops were becoming easier. Though I still need a LOT more practice with them. Also, I have started to practice cycling my hands when I spin the kite. I have noticed that doing that makes my spins look cleaner and also gives me better control of them. While cycling my hands during spins, it seemed the kite would start to drift a little to the left (or right, depending) and I immediately realized that I was starting to do a forward bicycle! Which I have tried to do a number of times before and failed miserably at. So it made sense to keep going with it. Even though it was majorly by chance theses forward bicycles (or moonwalks at times) were inadvertently happening just because I was cycling my hands during spins. I've still yet to fully get the hang of them as I don't really yet have the control to do them at will (let alone in a specific direction), but I did notice that it really helps to slowly walk forward while doing them as he helped to keep the drive on the kite rather than trying to do them with my feet planted in one spot. So now along with practicing my vertical ladders and clockwork turns, I now have the bicycle/moonwalk to practice on. And those are really enjoyable to practice as its something very visual as opposed to just "watching". The only thing about practicing them is that rods on my rev are taking a slight beating as ive yet to gain the fluid control needed. Hopefully I don't break any LE's during this learning curve. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Yes, the knots getting tighter from the tension the kite puts on them while flying is enough to lengthen the leaders that much. When I make new leaders, I grab one end with a pair of pliers through a cloth/rag so as not to damage the leaders, and then pull really hard. Even after doing this they still get 1/8 to 1/4 inch longer with time. Also, the normal wear on the outer fibers (they start getting fuzzy), weakens the braid a bit and allows it to stretch. Once they get pretty fuzzy I replace them. Most of the wear on your leaders will occur right where they attach to the handles, so I use a separate loop which attaches to the handles, and the leaders attach to this loop. It can be whatever length you like, as long as all four are identical. So much easier just replacing these four loops as opposed to tying all those knots. When practicing stationary spins and moonwalk/bicycle spins, it will make you a better flyer quicker if you go really, really slowly. Once you can do it at a snail's pace, you can do it all at any speed. When you contact the ground doing spins, it's not really very hard on the tubes, but you'll put a lot of dirt and wear on the endcaps. I have worn the ends off on the LE endcaps on a couple of kites. Sand is worse than grass, it's like "sandpaper", literally. Asphalt is worse than sand, and on concrete you should check them after each session. If you do fly on sand a lot, also keep an eye on the bridle where it connects to the endcaps; it will start fraying there and can snap when you least expect it. That is when you will break a tube. Flying a kite is really simple fun, right? Like everything else in life, a little bit of maintenance goes a long way in preserving your equipment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 When practicing stationary spins and moonwalk/bicycle spins, it will make you a better flyer quicker if you go really, really slowly. Once you can do it at a snail's pace, you can do it all at any speed. When you contact the ground doing spins, it's not really very hard on the tubes, but you'll put a lot of dirt and wear on the endcaps. I have worn the ends off on the LE endcaps on a couple of kites. Sand is worse than grass, it's like "sandpaper", literally. Asphalt is worse than sand, and on concrete you should check them after each session. If you do fly on sand a lot, also keep an eye on the bridle where it connects to the endcaps; it will start fraying there and can snap when you least expect it. That is when you will break a tube. Flying a kite is really simple fun, right? Like everything else in life, a little bit of maintenance goes a long way in preserving your equipment. Great point... I have worn out a few bridles, probably due to sand. Another booger about sand is when you get sand in the endcaps, they are super difficult to remove from the spar when it's time to pack up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 If you fly on sand a lot, get some 3/4" 3M Blue Painters' Tape. Wrap it around the tube until you get a snug fit into the endcap. No gap, no sand. Doing all six caps adds about 1.5 grams of weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 The field I fly in is all grass so the only thing im worried about is cracking the end of a LE rod if it drops and lands on a tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim P. Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 For helping keep sand out of end caps, someone showed me one time to put soft vinyl end caps over the Rev end caps. Use a hole punch to punch a small hole in the tip of the vinyl end cap. This will act like a gasket to keep the sand from between the spars and the end cap. Works great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 @Skyclad01 Bump! I would interested in a progress report. Another year of "time on the lines" should make for interesting reading. Fill us in on your efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted May 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Unfortunately the days got shorter pretty quick, plus with birthdays, holidays and general winter weather coming on not too much longer after my last post here I haven't really flown all that much. I have only flown once or twice since then. I really felt out of practice, lol. But they were both good days. Nothing spectacular, just fun flying the kite around without any thought or purpose. Now that the days are finally getting longer (and much warmer), I should be able to get more time on the lines in. Which reminds me, I need to make a new flying playlist! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 4 hours ago, Skyclad01 said: Which reminds me, I need to make a new flying playlist! I edited mine over the winter months -- am ready to boogie. Keep this post going if you can. Logging your learning curve makes for good reference material, especially for new pilots who can relate to both the joy and the tears. (pronouced "tares") 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted June 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Had a very nice 2 hour flying session this evening. Was a good 90 something degrees out (Thankfully its a dry heat at least), and the winds were good and consistent. Although, every now and again the winds would blow a bit strong, but it wasn't anything a low inverted hover for about 20 second couldn't handle. While flying, it was rapidly apparent how rusty my flying skills have become. So that sucked. But at least I know i'll have fun sharpening them back up. While flying the kite around with no purpose is always fun, flying with intent looks so much better! But before I can do that, I need to improve my flying skills, so I have decided to focus on doing boring and repetitive things. Mainly, to work on my clockwork skills. While yes I can spin and turn the kite I have a difficult time keeping my kite perfectly level when flying in a straight like and keeping my turns sharp and even. Practicing clockwork turns will pretty much kill 2 birds with one stone. It will help me with holding a steady hover (which is important even when the kite is in motion as it keeps your flying straight instead of having the kite undulating while flying), and it will definitely help me keep my turns and spins sharp and even. Once my clockwork turns improve, then flying with intent should come easier (hopefully) and my overall flying will look that much better. And that will be the big payoff of working on the boring and repetitive practice motions! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) Remember to do everything you do to both sides so you don't become "handed". Also work on being able to do everything up as well as down. Then work on different angles, 45, 30, 60 degrees from horizontal. Oh, and don't forget to breathe and smile. Edited June 9, 2016 by makatakam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyclad01 Posted June 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 8 hours ago, makatakam said: Remember to do everything you do to both sides so you don't become "handed". Also work on being able to do everything up as well as down. Then work on different angles, 45, 30, 60 degrees from horizontal. Oh, and don't forget to breathe and smile. I Definitely want to make sure im an ambi-turner! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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