Leading Edge and Down Spars

[DeafThunder]

I was reading about these spars/rods @ http://www.revkites.com/kite-product/revolution-spars-rods

4-Wrap Spars

4-wrap rods are the heaviest and strongest of the basic rods. They have similar stiffness to the 2-wrap and 3-wrap rods, and should be used in high winds.

4-wrap rods are identified by their label with either 4 feathers or the words “Revolution Equipped” with an internal diameter of 1/4 inch.

SLE (Super Leading Edge) Spars

The Super Leading Edge (SLE) is a large rod with a 1/2 inch internal diameter. These rods are the largest, heaviest, strongest, and stiffest of any rods for the Revolution kite. These rods are only used in the leading edge of the kite and are produced in both 3 and 4 wrap variants.

SLE rods are identified by their significantly larger diameter.

since I have old golf clubs ... why can I trim it to fit the down spars to replace ?

have you ever try something else to replace the spars/rod ?

have you ever make your own handles with thumb grooves in it for depends on how much wind is blowing because it varying so much ? (inland wind, unlikely like an ocean uni-direction/consistence mph)

I noticed that my end cap's rubber is so elastic ... so I tightened it up ... B-Series flies better and stiffer that is not so bouncing.

I have searched "thought, idea, specific words" on both revkites and kitelife forums ... nearly every posts are unrelated to the topic or choice of words

So, that is why I decided to ask away in here and hopefully give me some direct links to creative ideas or alternative items.

I kinda wish all those videos contains "wind speed, spars/rods type, etc etc full details" ... not just a video flying itself ... because it makes me wonder ... how much wind is that ? ... Are those wind comes and go alot ? ... how long are those strings ? ... etc etc

I am thinking about to make my own lines 200ft with 550 paracord ends sewed

Yes, I do have a lot to learn and also I learned that shorter handles slows down the tricks ...

I really appreciate if you provide any insights to make me to become a "better" excellent flier ... yes, one trick a day ... my 2 hours practice on "hovering 360 spin and stop in both left and right direction ... I realize that it has not much to do with wrist rotation flying, like I do with my oZone power kite ... it's involving more arms and body rotation as well ...

Yes, I am hard of hearing and kinda disappointed that not all video have "true" closed captions, so basically I just slowed down the speed by 1/2 or slower and watch those movement very carefully ...

one thing that baffling me alot is that John is doing "shaking everywhere" (no offense) to tame his kite so still ... his demo video does not help me much because I need to see in front of him or behind him viewing to find out which way is he moving those handles ... I noticed that he is not doing "north/south" rotation but rather doing "west and east" rotation like turning a door knob.

Wow ... sorry ... so long ... I did read and watch a whole lot of vidoes/forums ... I guess, I just put it all together into one topic ... Sorry.

Thanks,

Chad

[3wrapframe]

Wow, there is a lot there. Thanks for asking. I would recommend not using old golf clubs for this application. I am sure that you can do it but if you are taking the time to come here and ask how to get better you should just invest into more rods. If you need just one rod section they are available at most kite shops.

I would also not go to much longer in the lines, 200' is pretty crazy. An international standard is 120' so just about anywhere you go, field permitting, you can find a stranger to fly with.

[Wayne Dowler]

The SLE rods are used only in the leading edge, not for down spars. You would be restricted by the size of the caps, as to how big a rod it will accept. Golf shafts are tapered, Rev rods are straight.

Yep - 200' is LONG - not many of us have any flying area that will let us use that long a line. Max length most use is 120', it is the team "standard" world wide. I can go almost anywhere and find people flying on that length and join in. That said - many of us also use shorter sets too. Lets us use smaller fields or places the long lines just won't fit in. I use 30', 50', 75', 85', and 120', depending on winds and area.

Not sure about what "shaking everywhere" means? Flying Revs isn't a stand still activity! Or hands completely still either! But you do use your hands/wrists more with Revs, not the push/pull of 2 line kites. And you do move your body - in and out, side to side, not very stationary.

Yes to tightening up the bunji cords on the ends. It's also on the tips too. Tighten to remove horizontal wrinkles, but not so tight as to create vertical ones. Overtightening leads to sail stretch, no return from that.

Sorry so few videos have any subtitles, not a common issue and really up to the editing skills of those submitting them. There are some with picture in picture views I think. Might have to look for those.

[makatakam]

Many of John Barresi's tutorial videos have picture-in-picture so you can watch his hands and the kite at the same time. Also, most of his videos give you kite, line, wind speed and other info.

You can use golf club shafts for the verticals, but they are thicker and therefore heavier than the original Rev spars. Adding 20 grams of weight will not help the kite to fly in light winds. You can find Skyshark p-series rods on-line at reasonable prices if you want to try using different weight and flex in the uprights and leading edge.

[DeafThunder]

Wow !!! I am shocked that many said 200 ft lines is too long and this can be true that cannot use it at smaller fields or places ... I guess, I go with 120 ft lines, then, thanks ...

Yes, golf shaft for verticals on a higher windy day, that is what I meant ... speaking of light winds (less than 7 mph) ... with all the lightest everything on my B-Series kite ... it lasts like 2 seconds then landed ... is this because my 80 ft lines is too long for the light wind ? ... if less than 5 mph winds ... is 30 ft will works better ? ... I even tried or used blue masking tape to cover the vents very evenly ... the effect with that tape is barely unnoticeable difference ... I have not tried to cover "ALL" (including the leading edge vent) ...

Only thing that is fun to fly is when the wind are at least 10+ mph (2 or 3 times a week) and up to 21 mph (1 time every 2 weeks) ... Maybe I should have got the Blast 2-4 or maybe 4-8 for light winds, instead of B-Series because I already have a 3m oZone Little Devil power kite... I don't know if you have flew the blast before, but would like to know your opinion on about this blast (both size)

3-wrap Racing Green Rods is very good and better than 2-wrap Ultralite Rods (I probably never get this one again, because I have mid-vent kite and it's too fragile)... I have one Racing Rod left to go ... Time for me to order some more rods on eBay or maybe some kites online store ... closest kite shop is Chicago ... 408 miles ... any suggestions ?

"Hands/handles are shaking everywhere" is like trying to "shoo" aggressively those few annoying flies flying in your face ... I know that nothing is stationary ... that is not what I meant ... (wow, how can I explain this simpler) ... I looked up some words ... best I can explain ... like a extreme essential tremor hands ...

... Do I need to move that rapidly to make the kite hold still in the air ? ... I even tried the turn handles like the door knob turning ... nothing happens or maybe I am not doing right ...

I can fly my kite just fine like I do with power kite ... of course, I practice it seriously to move up the level/skill experience ... 2 days ago, I only practice hovering and center spin 360 then stop immediately 8 feet above the ground at 15 mph wind ... I believe I did very good on that, but not very consistence (that's one that I broke the vertical, slammed into the ground spinning) ... funny thing is that ... the way I move my hands, arms and upper body in a karate kata/form movement, then returns back to starting position ... LOL ... I did broke some sweat on one trick for like an hour

I saw most John Barresi's tutorial videos have picture (side view human)-in-picture (kite view) that I can watch his hands ... in my opinion ... I would like to see 2 more pictures in picture ... top view human and in front view ... because I can not tell which way is he pulling or turning the handles, because it looks the same on one side view ... if the handles are 3 feet long ... I will see the different movement easier ... LOL

this is a great video, but how much wind is that ? Especially at the amusement park ... and I agreed with one of the comment said that " I feel however that frame has more to do with it than anything and how the kite cups the wind. "

A very deep cup ... is this because using the indoor or extremely flexible unbreakable rods ?

Thanks for all those replies !!!

Chad

[3wrapframe]

The handle shaking is slight adjustments to keep up with the wind and sail. Not common to just hold the handles in one spot or super steady. No wind is perfect and no kite is either. You have to remember that there is something pushing on that kite, it wants to move and its in your hands to keep it under control.

[DeafThunder]

I understand that ... what is "Turning The Door Knob" movement actually do ? ... I will need to try TTDK out with 30 feet lines and maybe Thunder (my kite) will speaks to me

[makatakam]

Twisting a handle or both like a doorknob does nothing. The movements that do something are: moving one handle forward and backward or both in opposite directions, tilting one or both handles forward or backward. When he twists the handles it is generally when the kite is inverted to help keep it steady, and in some tricks so he doesn't hit himself in the nuts with the handles.

The constant movement you see in John's hands are minor adjustments to keep the kite stationary. If he kept his hands still the kite would be bouncing around. He is counteracting the kite's tendency to move in response to the wind.

The kite needs to have a cupped shape in order to give the pilot better control. This cupping is achieved in lighter wind by using more "brake" and a light (flexible) frame. If the kite is flat it will tend to slide and fall. If the frame is flexible (light) enough the wind will cup the kite. If the frame is too stiff for the existing wind the frame won't flex and the kite will remain fairly flat.

Use the kite you have to learn how to control the kite before you get anything bigger. The larger kites do not react as easily to pilot inputs, and will fight you all the way while you try to learn. It's like learning to drive. You don't get into a piggy-back semi-tractor/trailer to learn how to parallel park. It's not impossible, but it sure makes learning hard. You will need at least 40 hours on the "training kite" before you can expect to have ANY control over it, and even then you will probably break something, possibly bones.

The videos you posted here are of master pilots with many thousands of hours each on the lines. Don't expect to do what they can in a short time, unless you put 40 hours per week into it for a year. I've been flying for 7 years, and both those guys can fly circles around me, literally.

The key to control is finding the balance point on the handles, where the kite, in any position will not move forward, backward, or sideways. That is where your middle finger belongs on each grip. Moving forward, backward, spinning, turning are accomplished by small inputs from your index or ring fingers, combined with forward/backward movement of one arm or the other.

Get together with other flyers somewhere. Where do you live? Check the members tab at the top of the page for someone near you. Go to a kite festival. Drive 2 or 3 hours if you have to. The time will not be wasted. We're all a friendly bunch and will do whatever we can to help. If you must learn on your own, just go for it. Keep flying and eventually you will have some "ah-ha" moments, and it will become easier.

A word of warning -- do not fly near any power lines or airports. Stay away from trees; they eat kites for lunch. Do not fly your kite near people, as you may have seen in videos, until you have more than 110% control of the kite, and then be very, VERY careful. If there is any chance you're going to crash, run towards the kite or just drop the handles. This will reduce the severity of impact with the ground.

Watch the beginner tutorials here, and watch them again and again until you're sick of watching them. Then watch them again several times. Pick one thing you want to learn and go out and practice that. And I don't mean advanced tricks, you must be able to crawl before you learn to walk, you must be able to walk before you learn to run.

But, more important than anything else: Have fun, smile, and don't forget to breathe.

[SHBKF]

... Maybe I should have got the Blast 2-4 or maybe 4-8 for light winds, instead of B-Series because I already have a 3m oZone Little Devil power kite... I don't know if you have flew the blast before, but would like to know your opinion on about this blast (both size)

I bought a Power Blast 2-4 as my second Rev thinking it might be an ideal light wind kite. This was early on after only one flight attempt with my SLE 1.5. It took me three attempts, about three hours, before I could comfortably stay in the air with the SLE. Did not try to fly the big PB 2-4 for several months. When I did it was not the light wind kite I thought it might be. Since I learned more about flying Revs in light wind I can now fly the PB 2-4 in light wind but it is not my first choice in those conditions. I did finally get the PB 4-8 and it is without a doubt a much different beast. Static flying in very light wind is not practical. As the wind picks up, above 4 or 5 mph, it will really starts pulling as you cross the window at speed. If you are in a buggy it is a different matter as apparent wind factors in much more when the buggy is rolling. But I am still learning about all this. SHBKF

[Wayne Dowler]

Just to clear/add to any confusion on rods:

2 wraps - marked with 2 feathers or the words - Professional Use

3 wraps - marked with 3 feathers or the words - Ultra Light

4 wraps - marked with 4 feathers or the words - Revolution Equipped

Black and Green Race - marked with flames and the word - Race

Saw in OP's last post he referred to 2 wrap ultralights, not marked that way! Most kites with the SLE leading edge use either 3 or 4 wrap rods for the verticals.

The only thing the TTDK move could be to me, is that he is turning the handles in the direction the leading edge is facing. At least in the side to side movement, not possible in the inverted position!

The "cup" you see, is one that more experienced fliers are OK with. We want flex in our setup to allow control. Most new fliers panic seeing flex, it looks like something should break! Too flat and while the kite can go fast, not much in the way of control. You learn to monitor that flex - too much and you change to a stiffer frame. Not enough means go to a lighter one.

[DeafThunder]

The constant movement you see in John's hands are minor adjustments to keep the kite stationary. If he kept his hands still the kite would be bouncing around. He is counteracting the kite's tendency to move in response to the wind.

That is what I thought ... so, I am on the right track

The kite needs to have a cupped shape in order to give the pilot better control. This cupping is achieved in lighter wind by using more "brake" and a light (flexible) frame.

Understood.

You will need at least 40 hours on the "training kite" before you can expect to have ANY control over it, and even then you will probably break something, possibly bones.

I already hit over 40 hours since I bought it ... http://kitelife.com/forum/uploads/gallery/album_433/gallery_10149_433_461199.png

I tame my oZone 3m at 21 mph ... even, at the turbo mode bulleye zone ... I love that workout

Static flying in very light wind is not practical

For example, less than 7 mph ... this is umm this video below ... it is hard for me to believe that ... I like one of the comment said "How much is NO WIND" ? LOL !!! ... Ocean or shoreline always have wind, correct ? ... I understand it is achievable by non-stop walking backward

The key to control is finding the balance point on the handles, where the kite, in any position will not move forward, backward, or sideways.

I shifting my handles alot to keep it balance, because wind is so fluxuating as well as multi-direction wind stream ... You are correct.

Get together with other flyers somewhere. Where do you live? Check the members tab at the top of the page for someone near you. Go to a kite festival. Drive 2 or 3 hours if you have to.

It is a great idea to fly with flyers somewhere ... Bowling Green, KY ... closest one I found is BBailey49 at Oak Ridge, TN ... Ok, I wil try to find those Kite Festival.

A word of warning -- do not fly near any power lines or airports. Stay away from trees; they eat kites for lunch. Do not fly your kite near people, as you may have seen in videos, until you have more than 110% control of the kite, and then be very, VERY careful. If there is any chance you're going to crash, run towards the kite or just drop the handles. This will reduce the severity of impact with the ground.

Of course, I preferred let go "one" handle ...

Watch the beginner tutorials here, and watch them again and again until you're sick of watching them. Then watch them again several times. Pick one thing you want to learn and go out and practice that. And I don't mean advanced tricks, you must be able to crawl before you learn to walk, you must be able to walk before you learn to run.

Like John said in the other discussion ... create a flash card to perform a trick for an hour ... until completed ... then pick 2 flash cards as routine trick etc etc ... You are right.

I did finally get the PB 4-8 and it is without a doubt a much different beast. Static flying in very light wind is not practical.

That is very very true with my oZone power kite vs Rev B kite ... 3m oZone is a beast at least 15mph, well now, it's a baby beast ... LOL ...

Just to clear/add to any confusion on rods

Thanks for the clear understanding, except ... words ? what is "words" ?

Learn to monitor that flex

That is my problem there and still working on "how to read the flex" ... I added the 4 ft long and thin orange safety flag on left and right corner of the kite to allow me see the windstream ... It is a good lesson.

Thank you ... all of you ... now ... I am more comfortable of knowing what to do next or practice

Speaking of youtube.com vimeo.com and video sites etc etc ... it would be very helpful, if you add the "true" closed captions on all kite tutorials, this will encourage deaf/hard of hearing people like me to continue or learn how to fly kite ... also add ... "between wind speed" ... "lines length" etc in the description and please don't leave it blank ... also write/type "Rev Kite" in the topic, it will help youtube search engine can find your kite video easier, rather than "this is awesome" ... youtube search engine will never know that "this is awesome" is a kite video that people has been searching for.

THANK YOU SO MUCH !!!

Chad

[makatakam]

I bought a PB2-4 last year, and even with 7-year's experience with quads, I find it difficult to fly, possibly because I haven't gotten used to it yet. It is, as everyone will tell you, a completely different beast. If you can make to any of the festivals in Illinois next season you'll probably run into me or people from IKE (Illinois Kite Enthusiasts) there. Team 180GO!, the official Rev team is comprised of many members of IKE and will be at a few of those fests. Join us for some fun. You can join IKE and check out the forum at ikeclub.org -- it's free, and you can check the calendar for upcoming events.

Where in Kentucky? are you?

[mystainedskin]

Guess I should add that I have a B style leader set up on my power kite handles also. I do not like the stock set up..

[Wayne Dowler]

By words - I meant there are WORDS on the labels, in the case of the older rods - that is ALL there are! Rev started using the "feather" system several years ago on silver labels. Prior rods used gold labels and only the words!! Knowing what each means you can identify the rods no matter the label or year made.

Just to add - EXP rods (no feathers on label) = 3 wrap ultralight rods

[DeafThunder]

By words - I meant there are WORDS on the labels, in the case of the older rods - that is ALL there are! Rev started using the "feather" system several years ago on silver labels. Prior rods used gold labels and only the words!! Knowing what each means you can identify the rods no matter the label or year made.

Just to add - EXP rods (no feathers on label) = 3 wrap ultralight rods

Gotcha ... thanks ... I thought, it was some kind of code talk