John Barresi

Handle mods (snagless)

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in the "old days",.... <LOL!> I got this method off of rec dot.kites by way of Jeffery Burka's recommendation.

~you ran a nail thru the hole, left in the handles' tubes, after the snaggle hook (or hog ring?) has been removed.

~cut that nail, so it just reaches across the gap of the tube when pushed tightly from the head (don't use a finishing nail's head either!

~larks head the leader to the nail, such that the top leader reaches almost entirely across the gap of the two attachment points, adjustments will be made for tuning on the bottom/brake lines.  The tops are remaining a common length for muscle memory benefits to throw and more importantly,.... to catch the kite

~wrap the handle tube over the nail, with a piece of vinyl electrical tape, such that the nail is now immobilized and stationary

~trim down a plastic molly, so a column of plastic lines the tube and the leader rests against that, (not the sharp metal edge on the end of the tube

~thread the leader thru the removed vinyl cover cap

reapply the vinyl cap and snug everything down 

I have this "old school no-snag method" on only one set of my handles now, my titanium long throws.  They have been faithful for over a a decade using this technique at least weekly.  It is NOT easier than Watty's method, but it surely worked back in the day and still does this afternoon, after work

-paul

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It's dead easy to do. Can be done in a short time. Only NEED to do the bottoms but most do both.

571636a0013b6_ImageUploadedByKiteLife1461461073554.090158.jpg]

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Did a bunch of handles using that "Watty" mod and they are still going strong!! Easy, peasy to do - with practice you can do a set in less than 30 minutes! BUT - be really careful - there is a nasty burr left from drilling the holes for the hog ring!! Rev doesn't clean it up in their manufacturing process. IT WILL LAY YOU OPEN!! Been there, done that!

 

Tools needed: Strong pliers or needle nose, screwdriver.

Just be sure not to scar up or ruin the vinyl cap as you remove the ring, unless you plan to replace them. I didn't need to, just ran my leaders out one of the existing holes after turning them front to back instead of side to side, So there was a hole in the back - no biggie!

#8-10 wallboard anchors fit perfectly in the tube and cover any raw edges (flange on anchor overlaps), only thing needed is to do one of 2 things - #1- if you use the threaded screws that come in the pack, I recommend chucking them in a drill and filing down those last few threads. That way they won't eat into your leader. Choice #2 - buy some SS shoulder screws when you get the anchors. eliminates the need to file threads down.

Like I said - did a bunch this way to save a bunch of cash  ....................... spent on more kites!

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Here's a write-up, that I posted several years back, concerning this very topic & simple modification....... Same information, as others have already stated, just a bit more detail, and history, on how all this got started, should you be interested......

Good Luck....... :ani_victory:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Making Snag-Proof Handles

OK, you've got the Pros in here now - listen up - these guys know what they are talking about.

As for me, I'm just a tinkerer, with a bit of mechanical knowledge, and the tools to back it up. I really enjoy improving, improvising, and revising, already great ideas, and there are tons of them out there. If only I could fly a Rev, so well.

As for the "Watty Way", my mistake (sorry Watty, but you did make the video), and I suppose that is what I remembered. I do remember that the original idea came from, "Stone in the Shoe Bob", so credit given, where credit is due (sorry Bob). No harm intended, only thanks - Bob, thanks for the idea - Watty, thanks for the video. As they say, a picture is worth, well, a lot. Ok, so now it's the "Stone in the Shoe Bob" method. Either way, thanks guys.

Now, as JB has pointed out, the length issue is probably a personal preference. I'm sure that for the seasoned Pro, the slightest change in length, and/or diameter, is extremely annoying, however, for the novice / newbie, it may not be, quite so critical. I would suppose that whatever feels comfortable to you, would surely suffice. I hope JB will agree with this.

So, as for the dilemma, "Do I cut the handles down to the original length, or do I let the length, fall where it may?", my advice on that would be to fix a set of handles, using the "Stone in the Shoe Bob" method (as illustrated in the "Watty Video"), then take them out for a flight, or three. If the length feels too long, awkward, or unwieldly, then it's simple enough, to go back to the work bench, take them apart, and cut them off at the inner edge, of the original holes, where the rings used to be attached (side of the hole, closest to the grips). After the cut, smooth off the rough edges, ream out the ends, and reassemble everything. This should put you back to within 1/16" to 1/8", of the original length - Voila! No snag handles, original length !!

After all, it's a lot easier to shorten a set of handles, than it is, to lengthen them (now surely that makes sense, doesn't it?)

Just for ease, of you that may be reading this, here is my original post to "Stone in the Shoe Bob", concerning his revision, which originally appeared, over in the Revolution Kites Forum
:

Hi Bob,


I was reading about your handle modifications, using the drywall anchors and the screws, which would enable one to rid themselves of those annoying metal rings, on the ends of the handles. A while back, Watty Watson sent me a video that he obviously put together, to help me understand his explanation of this procedure. I thought it worked like a charm. Now, I see, where you have now, gone back and reversed that modification, on the upper ends of your handles, and reattached the metal clips. I believe you said this was due to the additional handle length, which is created, by this particular modification.

Now, I've got a stupid question. If this additional length is a problem, why not just cut off the top end of the handle tubing, maybe .25" to .50", or whatever seems to be right, and put you modification back as it was. I mean, that is such a clean and trouble free modification, and those clips (hog rings) are really a pain. My thoughts would be to cut the tubing, immediately below the holes, where the metal clips were mounted, and then reinsert your anchor and screws, as you had previously done. This should put you back, very close to the original handle length (+/- 1/8"). Surely you've got several sets of handles, just lying around, that you could experiment with. I hope I haven't misunderstood your point, but I think I'm hearing what you were saying correctly. Just my thoughts on the issue.

Also, as for me, I suppose that I'm not quite as tuned in on the Rev, as you may be, and obviously, I haven't been flying long enough, for that small amount of additional length, to be a bother. Maybe one day, I'll get to that point, but for now, I'm just very happy, with your idea. Thanks for sharing it !

Now for my additional two cents - For those of you, who don't want to go to this extreme, of cutting the tubing, and would just like to use the anchor and screw idea, I have modified several sets, with very little trouble, however, if you have access, a few tools, other than a screw driver, it will make this job much easier and neater. WARNING - Do be careful, when removing the rubber covers, from the ends of the handles, because most of the handles that I have seen, have a very sharp and nasty burr, around the holes, where the metal clips were attached. You can see where the holes were drilled in the tube, so beware. Once I carefully removed the metal clips, and the rubber end caps, I took the handles over to the grinding wheel, where I smoothed down the burrs around the clip holes, and then polished the ends of the tube with a rotating brass bristled, wire brush. You could probably accomplish the same effect, with a little elbow work, a flat file, and some emery cloth. Just be careful. In fact, the file is probably all that is really necessary, if you will be very careful, and try not to scar the exposed part of your handles, while filing the burr. A padded vice, would be quite helpful, for holding the handle steady, while you file it smooth. You just need to remove that sharp metal burr around the small holes. I also found it necessary to ream out the ends, of most of the tubing, as there was some kind of hard residue, just inside the end. I don't know what that was, but it definitely needed to be removed. Either way, it just makes for an easier job, once the grinding, polishing, and reaming is done. Then it was just a matter of forcing the plastic anchors (with shoulders), down into the ends of the tubing, and inserting a #10 stainless steel screw, leaving just a small gap under the head of the screws, for the pigtails to be looped around. This can be seen clearly, in Watty's video, which can be found here http://www.vimeo.com/7746634 Also, I'll try to post a couple of pics, of one of my latest modified handles.(see below)

1.JPG 2.JPG 3.JPG 4.JPG 5.JPG

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One thing I can't determine from the video or pics; do you larks head the leader over the screw or tighten the screw down to hold the leader? I would think larks head, yes?

No kidding on that burr Wayne. Pretty sloppy on Revs part. Drilling slower would greatly minimize that. I started to hand file and switched to the Dremel, much quicker.

 

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One thing I can't determine from the video or pics; do you larks head the leader over the screw or tighten the screw down to hold the leader? I would think larks head, yes?

No kidding on that burr Wayne. Pretty sloppy on Revs part. Drilling slower would greatly minimize that. I started to hand file and switched to the Dremel, much quicker.

 

Yes, larks head onto the screw head. The bottoms on your B2 handles are this way. Slide the rubber boot down and take a peak.

Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

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11 hours ago, Hasek said:

One thing I can't determine from the video or pics; do you larks head the leader over the screw or tighten the screw down to hold the leader? I would think larks head, yes?

No kidding on that burr Wayne. Pretty sloppy on Revs part. Drilling slower would greatly minimize that. I started to hand file and switched to the Dremel, much quicker.

 

I never lark's headed any of these (although some may have).  I simply put the loop over the screw head, turned the screw down till it barely touched the loop, leaving it so the loop could turn.  Then I pulled the rubber cap back over the tip.  This (the rubber cap) will prevent the loop from coming off of the screw, and allows the loop to turn right or left, without binding. 

As for that burr, those holes are punched, not drilled.  That's why they are so rough.   < handle with caution >

 

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Either way works - the larkshead just puts double the line around the screw. Really up to you. I felt the larkshead kept the leaders from slipping, but the more I think about it, either way should work equally well, especially with the "clean" shoulder screw to slide on. Might consider larkshead if using the threaded screws - less movement = less wear!

 

But it certainly is a cheap alternative to store bought "snagless handles"!

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I have done this mod on two or three sets of handles. I use a clove hitch to attach the leader to the screw, and advise the use of the shouldered screws. I did have one that the threaded screw severed at the top leader. It's worth a few cents more to avoid this.

The clove hitch is a cleaner method of attachment and less prone to loosening than the larkshead. Try it. I think you'll like it. Once you know how to tie it, it's fast and simple.

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Lots of great tips & tricks here, you guys! 

Before i get started on mine, any new tips or discoveries since the last post?

Thanks in advance!

 

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Nothing new Sari, just a warning that there is a VERY SHARP flake of metal, where the holes were drilled for the ring. Be careful it doesn't cut you as you remove the vinyl cap. Use good pliers to open the ring and don't scar up the vinyl cap as you take everything apart. You'll reuse it. First set takes maybe an hour to do, after that, much less. Good, cheap, easy way to do snagless out of regular handles.

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12 hours ago, Sari Alexandra Becker said:

Lots of great tips & tricks here, you guys! 

Before i get started on mine, any new tips or discoveries since the last post?

Thanks in advance!

 

There are a few other ways that people have come up with to make this modification, but this is the simplest, fastest and least expensive of them all. It works and it lasts a long time. The only addition I would suggest is "sacrificial" loops to attach the leaders if you fly more than 10 hours per week.

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3 hours ago, Wayne Dowler said:

Nothing new Sari, just a warning that there is a VERY SHARP flake of metal, where the holes were drilled for the ring. Be careful it doesn't cut you as you remove the vinyl cap. Use good pliers to open the ring and don't scar up the vinyl cap as you take everything apart. You'll reuse it. First set takes maybe an hour to do, after that, much less. Good, cheap, easy way to do snagless out of regular handles.

But yes, as Wayne alluded to, watch out for the sharp places.  As for that burr, those holes are punched, not drilled.  That's why they are so rough.  

< handle with caution >

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On 4/26/2018 at 12:42 PM, Reef Runner said:

But yes, as Wayne alluded to, watch out for the sharp places.  As for that burr, those holes are punched, not drilled.  That's why they are so rough.  

< handle with caution >

As Nick said punched holes are indicated by the type of burr I have seen.  I spent many years buying punches & dies in an industrial setting.  As the punch & die sets wear the clearances open up from ideal as wear occurs.  The punch diameter gets smaller & the die opening enlarges.  Punching stainless steel is especially problematic.  The enlarging die & shrinking punch open up the clearance to the point that the smearing of metal occurs instead of a clean break.  A punch & die is actually just a circular shearing operation.  An ideal punch presses/cuts part way through the thickness of the material then a fracture occurs breaking the remainder of the way through the metal leaving a nice clean hole. As you might visualize a die that fits inside of a small tube is a very special piece of tooling.  We did this type of punch operation with similar outcome. The normal good practice would be to simply deburr each piece  as part of the process.  It is a production compromise to merely cover it with a vinyl cap.  The first time I saw a handle with these burrs I said "Ah, production trumps quality once more." If the hole size is not too critical you can keep punching until the punch breaks.    SHBKF

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I made up a couple of extra sets to convert standard handles to no snags. Shoot me a PM and I can post them out. 20180428_104132.jpg

Sent from a Galaxy 8 Far Far Down Under.

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On 2018-04-26 at 9:21 AM, makatakam said:

There are a few other ways that people have come up with to make this modification, but this is the simplest, fastest and least expensive of them all. It works and it lasts a long time. The only addition I would suggest is "sacrificial" loops to attach the leaders if you fly more than 10 hours per week.

You mean short little pigtails to attach my leaders to, instead of attaching my leaders directly over the screw, right?

This is something I already do. Mostly because I spend a lot of time painting each knot with nail polish, and so now when I get a break, I simply remove the broken pigtail, add a new one, re-attach my leaders, and I'm good to go without having to paint another set of leaders. 

Make sense?

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Thank so very much for all the replies, you guys! And not to worry, I'll be extra careful around the burrs. 

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On 2016-05-13 at 9:32 AM, makatakam said:

I have done this mod on two or three sets of handles. I use a clove hitch to attach the leader to the screw, and advise the use of the shouldered screws. I did have one that the threaded screw severed at the top leader. It's worth a few cents more to avoid this.

The clove hitch is a cleaner method of attachment and less prone to loosening than the larkshead. Try it. I think you'll like it. Once you know how to tie it, it's fast and simple.

YES! I love this! I'm definitely going to use a clove hitch! Thanks for the great idea!

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By Jove, I think you've got it! If you're painting the knots to keep them from fraying it takes a lot of time. Faster and less expensive way is to trim the ends about 1/16" away from the knot and use a butane lighter to flame/melt them down to the knot. The melted material fuses with and becomes part of the knot. With a little scrap bridle line and a bit of practice you will end up with a knot that will never ever come apart, no matter how hard you try.

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On 2018-04-28 at 5:44 PM, makatakam said:

By Jove, I think you've got it! If you're painting the knots to keep them from fraying it takes a lot of time. Faster and less expensive way is to trim the ends about 1/16" away from the knot and use a butane lighter to flame/melt them down to the knot. The melted material fuses with and becomes part of the knot. With a little scrap bridle line and a bit of practice you will end up with a knot that will never ever come apart, no matter how hard you try.

Thanks for your reply, but... I paint the knots the colors of the rainbow because then they match my rainbow kite.  :) What can I say? I like pretty stuff! 

It also eliminates the chance of flying on two different knots by accident (yes, I have totally done that!). This way, I just larkshead to red, or green, etc.

I just painted a couple of new sets of leaders over the weekend... I'll upload a photo. 

IMG_9349.JPG

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Well, that is pretty amazing.  NOT your “painted knots”, but your “Bose”, which I couldn’t help but notice in the background.  I’m sitting here, right now, listening to the exact same unit.

Ok, ok, off topic I know.  Just had to comment !  😁

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29 minutes ago, Reef Runner said:

Well, that is pretty amazing.  NOT your “painted knots”, but your “Bose”, which I couldn’t help but notice in the background.  I’m sitting here, right now, listening to the exact same unit.

Ok, ok, off topic I know.  Just had to comment !  😁

I'm a fan of the Bose products, that's for sure!

But my painted knots are pretty amazing too, right? :ani_whistling:

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If it floats the boat (makes the kite fly), go for it 🤪

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