John Barresi

Welcome Koobecaf Uoykcuf

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Hello @Koobecaf Uoykcuf,

Welcome to KiteLife®!

Although this is an automated message, it is written with heart - I love kites deeply, and I believe the KiteLife community represents this passion with a very friendly and helpful environment for everyone. Please feel free to browse around and get to know the others. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask.

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Hi everyone. My name is Jason and I just logged in with my FB account to get here. I have been currently been flying older dual liners and really think I am getting a Rev EXP.. I purchased a dual line stunt kite off of Craigs List for 20 bux and the guy had the bridle all messed up. The fly lines just had a swivel clip that he attatched to the bridle that just slid across the lines. It could not even get off the ground that way. Obviously because it was incorrect lol. So my girlfriend and I found a website on how to use a pigtail and properly set up the bridle. The kite was made by a company that no longer exists. Go-Fly-A-Kite is the manufacturer of that one. Now that we have the bridle correct and adjusted properly. That thing flies great ! I have some videos on my youtube. My username on there is outtakontroll. If you search for outtakontroll kite it should bring up some of my videos of me flying. you can find the rest from my username. While visiting a local salvation army thrift store I purchased 2 other kites made by The Kite Factory. One was a dragon which my daughter is flying in one of my youtube videos. And a Viper Stunter dual liner. It is larger than my GFAK one for 20 bux. and I only paid 5 for the dragon and 5 for the viper. Neither one of my dual liners are made by an existing company so my wonderful girlfriend just bought me a Prism Jazz off of ebay. It is suppossed to be here by Monday. I cant wait for that. But I really want a quad line. Aand all the research that I have done so far...I want a rev. I dont want to wait for junk from china. and if I am going to spend that kind of money.....I want a Rev. And the Exp is as expensive as I can go. I even have to save for that. So ya I will be lurking around here and stuff in and out of the oldschool chattroom which I found yesterday lol Boy that brought back some memories lol. Thanks for the site and chattroom and all the valuable information on these amazing flying machines. Outta. PS I would add a video here but not sure how. I will try to link one from my youtube now. 

 Enjoy

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Hello Koobecaf Uoykcuf,

I see you are way beyond the stage of unscheduled landings from the videos. And the tail looks good to.

Have you gotten any info on what the two older kites are designed for, what their purposes are or found any old reviews about them? Does it seam like the Prism Jazz would be a complement to the two dualies you already got, e.g. in wind ranges? You have rapidly (?) acquired three kites to explore, each a different personality. Learn a slack line trick or some other form of kite control on one of the kites and then "transfer" the trick to the others.

In my, very personal, opinion I don't see much hurry in getting a quad, since there is so incredibly much to learn about dual lines. On the other side it may be so that I've not seen the light yet - or the darkness/dark side since I've never tested a Rev-like quad.

Although I represent no-one but myself, I wish you welcome.

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Regarding arm position in the video - lower your arms. You will gain more control with your arms by your side. Precision flying: arms slightly in front of you - trick flying: arms by your side. It also feels/looks more relaxed and you can go on for a longer time with lowered arms.

Good luck!

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Hands need to be more like at the 1:00 minute and 1:50 marks. Learn the "push/pull" turn - forward with one hand, back with the other - makes the kite turn much quicker that way. And you won't have to angle your hands or body so much! Learning to keep your hands lower, shows relaxed flying, under control!

 But it is a good start, you did keep it going a good while!!

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Exhult 

TYVM ! I have learned that lesson since that video lol. I do appreciate the advise as It was one of the more difficult things to learn to do actually lol. I have been teaching my girlfriend how to fly and I give her the l straps and stand behind her hugging her to keep her elbows by her side. She wants to keep flailing her arms around like I did lol. I have been watching Dodd Gross on youtube. great instructional videos. However I did not understand wth he was talking about mostly until i actually got some wind to get this thing in the air. After getting a feel for the wind window and how to turn and keep neutral. I watched the videos again and they made so much more sense. Glad I found you guys here ! This is the knowledge from experienced flyers that I as well as other newbies need. The guy who sold me the GFAK dual liner told me when I bought it that alot of cusswords were involved trying to learn how to fly it. He obviously did not do any research. He had the bridle all messed up. No pigtail at all. Just a clip atatched to the lines that could slide clear from the leading edge to the center T without restriction.  I can not believe that the guy was ever able to fly the thing. Thank god for the web lol. Here is a more recent video of me flying with more of a correct hand position.

Although after watching lol. I need to heed this advise a little better. But I am learning lol Thanks once again for the advise. It does make a difference using correct hand and arm position. 

Also, I ordered the Jazz because I wanted a quality kite by a reputable company and I am poor and it was the cheapest lol. Also the 2 kites I currently have have issues. The spine of the GFAK smaller one I have splintered So I reinforced it and it works but do not know nothing at all about the kite. The other one I have is alot slower and does not fly as well or as fast as the GFAK one. So I did want a reliable kite and other than a weak spine from what I have read the Jazz will fit my bill perfectly. On topic of quad line vs dual line...I have wanted a quad line since I saw the guy teasing the kid and walking across the beach with it.....just the idea of reverse.....I have to learn lol. .....and once again the choice of the exp is because I am poor lol. But I dont want to waste money on junk and it is the least expensive.  Also I do want to learn tricks with the dual line kites. The axel expecially lol. And I will. Just like proper hand position. Alot of this stuff is confuzing until you do it a couple times then it starts to make sense. Ground recoverys for example. I am getting so much better at not having to do the walk of shame lmao. I have been actually working on the spin stall at the edge of the wind window. Dodd Gross is who I have watched are there any other good tutorials out there by someone else? I have been watching the kitelife vids on quadliners. 

Wayne....Yes I def need to work on my combination turns. Baby steps......baby steps lol. I do appreciate the feedback though point well taken ! I will def try those next time I get in the air. Also ty for the compliment. I am excited about my new hobby !

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2 hours ago, Koobecaf Uoykcuf said:

I have been teaching my girlfriend how to fly and I give her the straps and stand behind her hugging her to keep her elbows by her side.

Sounds efficient and nice. You are very fortunate to have a kite interested better half (for a while I considered to write "lucky bas...d", but there is a slight risk that it would have been considered inappropriate). My wife is unfortunately kite indifferent (are there any modern medicines for this?), but on the other hand quite understanding/accepting.

A thought/suggestion of a training method (though I haven't actually tested it): However nice the hugging method of training must be, you would need to be very synchronized to run down-wind/up-wind. Do you think it could be an idea to use something like two broomsticks? Your hands would be joined by holding the ends of the sticks, left hand to left hand, right hand to right hand. The one closest to the kite holds both the two ends of the sticks and the handles. I have no idea if this is a good idea or not.

2 hours ago, Koobecaf Uoykcuf said:

I have been watching Dodd Gross on youtube. great instructional videos.

Talking about Dodd Gross videos there are two things I'd like to say, first I've seen the the ones that was available by the end of the nineties (bought them on VHS cassettes at the time). Second we (you, Dodd Gross and me) have a thing in common - as of today (17th of June 2016) we all have the same Kite Life rank: NEWBIE!! Imagine having the same rank as Dodd Gross! I'm honored!

Another similarity we seem to have is a tendency for somewhat lengthy but content rich posts far from 1-line posts like "Way to go", "Looks coool" or "I like that". Do not misunderstand me, posts can be short and condensed as long they convey a message of some importance or interest (IMHO). Also muscle soreness from extensive kite flying is better than soreness from extensive kite writing.

2 hours ago, Koobecaf Uoykcuf said:

Ground recoverys for example. I am getting so much better at not having to do the walk of shame

Walk of shame some call it, others more optimistically call it "walk of contemplation". I call it "a break" (is good for your neck). Mostly I try to remember what I did just a few tenths of seconds ago.

2 hours ago, Koobecaf Uoykcuf said:

I have wanted a quad line since I saw the guy teasing the kid and walking across the beach with it.....

Yes I know the video. However this is something that some would advice against. In high wind a kite collision is not healthy at all and can cause injuries and also can cause problems for the sport (like a kite ban on the local beach (when interacting with other people when doing kiting - always be very polite b.t.w.)). And on the other hand, in very light wind and the pilot is *very* experienced, like 10 years or so, I have difficulties in seeing a major danger (could be "inspiring" other kiters to take risks though). Remember if a child is involved also the parents must think this is a good idea. No, this is not anything I would actively recommend.

2 hours ago, Koobecaf Uoykcuf said:

are there any other good tutorials out there by someone else?

From the same shop that I bought discontinued Prism kites at a discount I later bought an old (?) Prism DVD: "Freestyle Pilot". Calm tempo and detailed advice I'd say.

Also any trick tutorial from DPmama74 I've seen is good.

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Hey, Koobecaf, lookin' good. The EXP will do everything the higher-end Revs will do. It has a simpler panel layout which doesn't have the "improvements" that the newer style ones have, which is why it's less expensive. You most probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference in performance between the EXP and the other panel layouts until after at least two or three years of flying a quad-line kite. As I said, the EXP will do everything the other Revs of the same size will do, so it's just as good a place to start as any other. Keep an eye on this forum, the GWTW (gone with the wind) forum and eBay for used Revs that come up for sale. Occasionally you can find a real bargain.

Where do you live? Check the "Map" tab on the home page and get together with an experienced pilot. It will shave years off your learning curve on both duals and quads. Get to some kite festivals, even if it's a bit longer of a drive than you care to make. It will be a good opportunity to try some OPK's (other people's kites) before deciding what to get. Kiters are a friendly bunch and usually quite willing to put the handles in your hands and get you started. 

Most importantly, keep smiling and don't forget to breathe.

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16 hours ago, Wayne Dowler said:

Hands need to be more like at the 1:00 minute and 1:50 marks.

Wayne, I'm convinced that kite flying advice coming from you is excellent. However I must be on the wrong path of thought since I can't catch the hand positioning advice of yours. For me the clock analogy would mean that 1:50 suggests arm pointing 55 deg from straight upwards, if using a convention where raising your arm vertically (0deg) is 12:00, extending your arm in front of you (90deg) is 03:00 and keeping your arms by the side (180deg) is 06:00.

8 hours ago, makatakam said:

It will be a good opportunity to try some OPK's (other people's kites)

That was a good one. It will be added to my kite vocabulary. The problem is that I'm not likely to have any use for this abbreviation. The closest I've been to fly an interesting OPK during this millennium is a HQ Salsa 3 kite that I bought as a marriage gift. Later when helping out to instruct the beginner man I realised that the kite flew OK but I could not really figure out the purpose of this beginner kite design (had also threwn in a 10m tube tail to increase the chance that his wife one day would join him - am I being prejudiced here?).

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He meant the elapsed time on the clip.

With hands, it's a good general rule but you will develop a comfortable position within the rule.

Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

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Yep - I meant time on the video. At those time marks, your hands were lower, almost waist high, not over your head! Much more natural position. Think ergonomics - if your hands are over your head, where else is there left to move them? With hands low, you can still move up, but need to learn to return them ASAP to that lower position.Also with the hands down, you can also learn to draw back your hands underneath, instead of above! Looking at a sideways view to yourself - think normal out at 2,3 o'clock, with the ability to go up to 12 or down to 6,7,or even 8 o'clock! You can actually get more movement by going down rather than up!

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Here are some pics of my kites. The larger one is made by The Kite Factory. The smaller one is made by Go-fly-a-kite And My Jazz of course Thanks to my wonderful girlfriend ! I love you baby ! And thank you !

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Wheeee.....  Congrats! 

I watched your video.  You're doing pretty good for your first day out.  Before you know it, you won't even have to think about the basic controls.  

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Very good control for so early in the game. You'll progress quickly from what I saw! One thing I can tell from the way kite was moving is that the upper left line is longer than the other three. If they are all equal (within 1/4") the kite will lose that tendency to flip over to the left when a gust of wind hits it.

Take frequent breaks. Don't fly more than 20 minutes at once. This will help you to not "overthink" what you're doing.

Keep smiling and don't forget to breathe. 

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Yep - Checked the lines before going out? Lots of new Rev fliers expect it to be perfect from the factory - far from it! Check those lines for equalization. 

 

Doing darn good too!

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The wind is just not on my side lately lol. This thing flies in lighter wind than my dual liners i think....but do the 2 wrap or race rods make that much of a difference in low wind to warrant the price? Here is a vid from todays trying in little wind. Trying the rev exp in low wind.

Edited by Koobecaf Uoykcuf
video didn't show up

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Not bad! Try this to reuse the same ground over and over and stop just backing up - take the kite as high as you can get it, flip it over and riding the brakes and controlling the fall, walk forward to where you started. I use a couple of stakes or markers to show me where I started and how far back I want to go. Learn to go backwards to drive the kite up, forwards on the fall. It works - give it a try! Pretty soon it becomes second nature.

2 wraps are reasonable priced, race and diamonds are pretty spendy. Will they help? Good equipment usually does, but better technique trumps good equipment everyday! A 3 wrap is not that much heavier than the 2 or race, you should be able to use it well. Full disclosure - I do use a race myself - in a std and mid! More for the flex it has, than any weight issues though.

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2 hours ago, Koobecaf Uoykcuf said:

The wind is just not on my side lately lol. This thing flies in lighter wind than my dual liners i think....but do the 2 wrap or race rods make that much of a difference in low wind to warrant the price? Here is a vid from todays trying in little wind. Trying the rev exp in low wind.

You did very well for as light as the wind was. I could tell by the speed of the kite that it was less than 4mph.

Yes, a lighter frame will help in low wind conditions, but keep the idea on the back burner for a while. For now try adding more brake by letting the top lines out further, or bringing the bottom lines in closer, or both. This is totally counter-intuitive, but go ahead and try it. What it actually does is to square the sail up to the wind so that less of the air hitting the sail "slides" off of it, and more pressure is created. The amount of "push" against the sail is what determines if the kite will fly. 

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Bet he's using the stock setup on his handles! John has a very nice set here on KL for sale - the top leader is much longer (10-11"), the bottom about 2-3". Tops have knots about 3/4" apart starting 3" out from the handle, bottoms about a 1/2" apart. You can adjust the lines on the knots to "square up" the sail more efficiently. Might have to add a step into the takeoff routine, but it adds more control in your flying as you learn. 

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WOW You guys just addressed my next question that I was just researching. I am trying to understand how to "tune" the kite. I do still have to modify my handles with longer leaders and more knots. Is there a good video explaining how to do this? I was looking up handle modifications and seen alot about how to do the snagless mod but not much on tuning. The way you describe it above Mak sounds backwards to me but you do specify that lol. it does seem the problem I am having is the balance between foreward and reverse. it will only go foreward with the bottom of the handles (brakes) completely extended if that makes sense.

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Tuning tutorial here on KiteLife...

Need a subscription to access it, but there are also some good tuning discussions in the Quad Heads section of the forum. ;)

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