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John Barresi

Revolution Kites Club 38

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I've sent Revolution over $25K during the past couple of decades.  Not what value of products I bought from kite shops, but  direct sales from the factory.  We have supported each other over many issues and developments.  I own a few dozen official Revs, quads are all I fly.

That said, their last "go around" w/me ended that relationship!  I ordered 26 custom spars for a Zen, they were made the wrong size, instead of fixing the problem or refunding my money they sent a prototype XX and stated they were now going to provide a different diameter spar in the future as policy of business.

I'm old school, I like what I like, heck I'll pay you to do it my way too, but don't jerk me around.  I'll circumvent you in a heart-beat!  I used to make my own kites, my expectations are quite high, my bride's money is quite green, I will find someone to do what I want.  I will support those firms/individuals that make my life easier.

A local kite club is vastly superior to any on-line experiences available, I recommend you incur travel expenses instead of buying and learning alone.  Nothing beats trying out a kite for 5 minutes and see if you connect to it.  A coach can correct and encourage, a club can share a dozen kites, each one appropriate for today's conditions.   Tuning, framing and options don't matter, only how it feels.  You pick the best feeling kite and use it all day, or switch off every few minutes.  It's the best of everyone's efforts for you to test out.

My very first lessons always start out inverted, backing up is the key to the quad-line effect, how to cart-wheel the kite when grounded.  The kite is not about shooting to the top of the window, although that's fun.  No the quad-lined kite is about control, landing into the hole of coke can balanced on top a fence post EMPTY.

Club 38 vs Wings Over Washington Kite Club...... no contest! Our teaching method you don't even need a kite, they are provided if you like how it feels keep it all day.  If not grab another and give it a spankin'. Someday, when you look down the line you'll notice you aRe nOt tHe wEaKeSt flier and you'll have to get you own equipment (and share it)

 

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On 7/6/2016 at 11:42 AM, Paul LaMasters said:

Club 38?

instead of joining it attend one good festival and get all the quad-lined exposure to everything you could ever want, latest equipment, mods, techniques, folks to provide hands-on instruction, seeing some of the best strut their stuff to music

 

AND you'll make some friends besides, which is truly priceless!

Yea not everyone has the finances or inclination to travel half way around their country to find one of these events. I managed Westward Ho Kite Festival in the Southwest of England, were'nt any of that kind of thing going on though "Armarinth the Dragon" was there. I've been in contact with one other Rev owner in my city and it's taken me ages to coax him to even consider Club 38. He's owned a Rev Exp for many many years and thought he wasnt up to the standard of Club 38 doh. That's how much information he had gleaned from his many years of ownership. I found this guy on the Facebook Quad Group. I've yet to get an opportunity to fly with him, he only lives a few miles from me & am a complete newbie to Revs. What I have noticed with kites in general is there are plenty of wealthy people who own them willing to give out expensive advice, as well as plenty of not so wealthy people who need something like Club 38, who might well have to fly alone & learn alone except for any information they're able to glean from online communities.

Just remembered where I'd seen your name, didnt you do the History of Revs or some such thing dude?

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nope, no REV history published from me, (John Mitchell maybe?)

I'm considered a new guy in my local club, only owned one since '93.  My friends there are in even deeper w/Revs, since the late 80's.

Club 38 is free, their kites are not.  Our club is free too, the kites and lessons come with the membership, maybe lunch if your arrival is early enough.  Anyone only needs to show up to feel included and welcomed, we fly the first Sunday of each month at the Washington Monuments in DC. Everybody lives at least an hour away, there's no free parking nearby or otherwise, inconveniently located bathrooms and always street closures for special parades and national activities.  But there's also a crowd to watch us!

I guess by some viewpoints I am wealthy, I get to buy kites and travel to visit with friends and fly them.  But I've worked my ass off to get where I am in my profession too. College education, decades of work experiences, doing whatever slime it takes to make myself indispensable at my current job.  I live well below my financial means and have since meeting my 2nd wife.  She runs the household money and believe me it's not easy to squeeze her!  I get a daily allowance, not weekly or monthly ~ oh heavens NO!

So, if I bought a thousand dollars worth of kites since '93, I've probably spent 10 grand each year so I could go travel.  Does that seem excessive? Sometimes the gigs are comp'd/free, sometimes I gotta go even if I have to give something else up and pay my own darn way.  When the misses travels along, she ain't sleeping on a prison floor just because it's free!  No, we will do less festivals but do each of 'em up right when we can!  We save for a whole year to make it work out.

So this year our big vacation trip is to WSIKF, (23rd year on the kiting road circuit) it came at the expense of my bride's 70 birthday celebration (and 16 months later too!), we'd intended to go to Iceland.  When this mega-rev world record thing came up she said we can go, BUT kiting is only for 3 of the ten days we are there.  I screwed up Treasure Island, FL (not spending sufficient time w/her) so not allowed to go again as a constant reminder of my spousal errors.

My financial luxury is quad-kiting, I have earned the right to do it exactly as I want to after 50 professional years of working and struggling to make the ends meet.  My bride Barbara and I have both been so poor in the past, the backyard was considered a king's vacation retreat.  We aren't ever going to be in that position again!  If I couldn't travel I'd still walk to fly kites in the local park and chase the kids there.

I'll drive up to about 5 or 6 hours for a good fest, thereafter I have to fly instead, which means less stuff for my pleasure upon arrival due to weight/freight restrictions and less festivals attended overall due to increased travel costs.

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1 hour ago, Buellbloke said:

Yea not everyone has the finances or inclination to travel half way around their country to find one of these events.

Did you know that England is half the size of Illinois, and even if you add Wales and Scotland it is still less in area than Illinois. That excuse just doesn't cut it. If you want it you must go get it. Two hours one way for one day is worth the time and money to fly with experienced pilots. You will learn and enjoy 10 times what you will on your own. Trust me, I've done both. There are several festivals in the UK. Get out to at least one or two a year. You can do it!

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3 hours ago, makatakam said:

Two hours one way for one day is worth the time and money to fly with experienced pilots.

Two hours your dreaming in this country, closer to around 4 as well as how much it costs in fuel. Then you need to own a tent pay to pitch it or pay for accomodation. Maybe next year when my power steering works again and am a little more profficient with my Rev. The way the economic climate is going we could all be back to horse and cart here ha ha

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If you are truly just starting out we'd be remiss if we didn't refer you to a few truly foundational videos.

The only true disconnect between Club 38 and the rest of the quad flying world is Club 38 wasn't consistent with established terminologies. The techniques are mostly good but the name for the maneuver might not be the same. Not saying anything is wrong with it. Just identifying the disconnect.

I flew kites with Joe Hadzicki a few weeks ago and I have nothing but praise for the design. I finally got to thank him for his invention and showed him a few of my own "improvements"    FWIW, he made a real difference in the kiting world and we are indeed grateful.

I also have to agree with Paul. Flying with others makes all the difference in the world. I hit only a few events a year and they are usually 2-5 hours drive each way.

FWIW, I've flown with Paul LaMasters, I've flown with Joe,  and I've flown with John Barresi. I also learned something valuable in my mind from all three.  Bottom line, if you can really learn from it, the source doesn't matter. Whether you pay a premium price for private lessons or glean it all from youtube is also a personal choice. The important thing is you learn and have fun in the process.

Paul taught me a lot in one day about kite attitude and I respect him for it. His ideals for kiting and mine don't necessarily always line up but his technique and flying style is unique. I'd fly with him far more often if I had the opportunity.

As John would say, "Fly with intent."  I spent several days with John learning about the kites and the person that flies them. Again our styles are very different but his advice is solid and sound.

Joe still has a special zeal to teach the newcomer that is refreshing after all these years. I watch him tirelessly work with the public at my latest event. He put a smile on a lot of faces.

When it comes to sharing kite knowledge, none of these fliers are standoffish in any way. they will share their knowledge and insights with you without hesitation..

Club38 was a sharp turn in Rev's business approach. Some of Rev's changes impacted fliers (including me) and some dealers worldwide and not necessarily in a positive way,   the competitors to the market have in many cases improved on Joe's design. This includes improvements that have been suggested to Rev over the years. FWIW, they are all variants of the Hadzicki wing. Some direct from the source, some improved but at this point the design is public domain now and you can find pretty much anything you want based on it. 

 

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I think the difference as I feel it is that Rev wants you to keep using their product, that’s the end game of Club 38... Honestly, I know that most fliers end up with multiple brand in their bags eventually, my end game is the experience and fortification of the end user regardless of what they’re flying.

Its a natural difference though - I’m 24/7 kite from business to family, friends to romance, sport and hobby, it’s all-encompassing for me so my focus is the community at large... The folks at Rev just aren’t “day in day out” fliers, they don’t fly regularly and their depth of terminology / skill reflects that - compounded by the fact they haven’t endevoured to go out and learn what their buyers know.

I think partly for that reason, their focus is now on the entry / intermediate level, and they’re very good at it. 👍🏻

But, you also won’t find many (if any) of the world’s true known “quad aces” flying a currently made Rev product - it will be some other brand, probably made by someone who spends the time to know why differences are important.

All that being said - I’m with Riff, it’s all good, whatever gets you there... The more you know, the more perspectives, the more styles and tastes you can sink your teeth into, the more you’ll know who YOU are as a flier irrespective of everything else.

All IMHO, only worth the wind it blows on. ✌️

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Sort of only glossed through the Club 38 stuff but when setting up and breaking down ALWAYS park your kite inverted. In the DVDs that came with my Revs they show the kite Leading Edge up instead of down. LE down is far safer.

Use the tools and resources that help you.

Sent from my SM-G950F using KiteLife mobile app

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On 8/11/2019 at 12:21 PM, makatakam said:

P.S. -- I don't appreciate you giving me the finger.

I own 2 revs that I don't know how to fly very well yet. A 1.5 full vent and a 1.5 B series standard. Since May I haven't been able to make the 2 hour trip to learn from the club. Broke a ton of dual tubes learning on my own and don't want to do that on quads. Since I do own quads I'm going to put in my 2 cents. If out of line please be kind. I have a very fragile ego. Number of years ago I was doing a shakedown on a new bobber build. Think HD 48 before they made them but hot rodded to the edge. Merging onto a 4 lane this daft pigeon wobbled up off the side of the road. Ducked and the dang thing bounced off my head cracking the windshield of the car behind me. Wouldn't ya know it was the police. 30 seconds later I was pulled over. Cop asked  if I knew why I'd been pulled over. No I says still slightly dazed from the impact.For flipping me the bird he says. WELL I NEVER!!

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3 hours ago, SparkieRob said:

Sort of only glossed through the Club 38 stuff but when setting up and breaking down ALWAYS park your kite inverted. In the DVDs that came with my Revs they show the kite Leading Edge up instead of down. LE down is far safer.

Use the tools and resources that help you.

Sent from my SM-G950F using KiteLife mobile app
 

Wot like that you mean lol Yea I've already experienced an upright taken over by the wind violent spin and a snapped leading edge spar on my first even more fragile UK made and designed quad. In my opinion as a newbie its the very first flying skill that needs to be learnt or taught, inverted park, handles secured at the tops to drive the kite forward and down.

 

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15 hours ago, riffclown said:

If you are truly just starting out we'd be remiss if we didn't refer you to a few truly foundational videos.

I've watched all JB's free videos lots of times, this one even more than that. Seems I prefer the figure of eight wind as stops me from over tensioning the lines on the winder. I am very heavy handed. I also setup a set of lazer pro gold 120's Jez Wharton gave me in the UK, I cut them down to 80's with his consent lol I then aquired a set of 8 sleeves & a piece of wire the same as are fitted as standard from Lolly @rev. Jez sleeves were indistinguishable from one another. It's impossible to find a Uk vendor that has 4 different sleeves that work together to form sets without buying from different vendors. The main thing I like about Club 38 is performing the patterns no matter how wonky they are Joe gives good praise even if most of it is copied and pasted lol

I tried flying to to the top left corner of the window and backing it down to the centre like in JB's turorials yea am not that advanced yet ha ha

 

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Like everything else. it comes with time and practice. There is no video, no lecture or no observation session that will substitute for time on the handles practicing.  You can get pointers and instruction for anywhere both good and bad. You can only learn skills by practicing them. 

FWIW, I spent literally days honing my inverted side slide. I put a kite in the ocean first day.. John Barresi went into the drink and retrieved it..  

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14 hours ago, John Barresi said:

I think the difference as I feel it is that Rev wants you to keep using their product, that’s the end game of Club 38...

You must have used that comment to others as its been back quoted to me before lol, I know what your saying, you mentioned Joe was an engineer but all I saw was the salesman. That said though unlike you he avoids drama at all costs ha ha. You cannot bait Joe, I know I've tried, he did give me a few tidbits of information about why Reflex. Joe hates two line tricks axels and the like, he does'nt like that probably cus he can't do one lol as far he is concerned the Rev was never designed for that. Rev do want you to buy their kites. Pros are going to look elsewhere as none of them need Reflex. Joe has changed his stance to say you can switch Reflex off. Am yet to figure out after owning a flat quad what exactly Reflex does except for maybe a flat launch which I have yet to try. I did notice my springs have a tendancy to move and in stronger winds almost lay flat to the sail. Its possibly a tad slower than my flat quad and for that I am grateful. if I acheived what I decided was mastery of the Rev. Plus if I fancied slack line tricks like axels and the flick flack along with catches, in all probability I would progress to a snagless Djinn. Its a pretty nice looking quad nobody can deny that and has all of your experience encompassed in its creation. Joe missed an opportunity if there was ever an offer of a collaboration is all I can say.

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14 minutes ago, Buellbloke said:

You must have used that comment to others as its been back quoted to me before lol

Or it’s just a recurring sentiment with some customers, no real fancier way to say the same thing. ;)

I also don’t care for drama, but I will not stand quietly when the community itself is being disserviced in any way. ✌️

There are lots of dramatic things that happen behind the scenes, or more often, that most people simply never become aware of (recreational user), and it’s all mostly irrelevant - as I said, whatever gets you to a grin in the sky. 😎

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Ah, one other thought...

There is also a difference in demand, in knowledge and terminology between recreational pilots and “hard core end users”... Its the latter that Rev has experienced a break in communication and understanding with, they do what they do very well, they just don’t have time, interest or whatever to learn what they need to know to service the high end users. 

And that’s ok. 👍🏻

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2 hours ago, riffclown said:

 

FWIW, I spent literally days honing my inverted side slide. I put a kite in the ocean first day.. John Barresi went into the drink and retrieved it..  

Was it his kite?? Hahaha. I would have been Michael Phelpsing it to save one of mine!!

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39 minutes ago, Corey Bell said:

Was it his kite?? Hahaha. I would have been Michael Phelpsing it to save one of mine!!

Honestly it was one of my early Mesh kites made out of tails.. it absorbed a lot of seawater and became VERY heavy. FWIW, he didn't hesitate at all. I still side slide over water every chance I get. But I've also learned a lot since that first incident.

 

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