esinger Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 The Ashes is truly the Gem Kite of Bazzer's line.. Just not sure if Bazzer will replace the Fire Bird with a Fire BiscuitSent from my XT1575 using KiteLife mobile app 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffclown Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 or a maple bacon donut. FWIW and IMO, The Phoenix is a great kite. I'm just not a fan of the Trailing Edge Vents on the full sail. The Ashes return that panel to the more conventional design.. That's the main reason I prefer the Ashes over the Phoenix.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 Yeah, it looks like the vents would take away from WhumpSent from my XT1575 using KiteLife mobile app 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 Pretty sure he can make them without TE vents upon request? I don't know for certain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 The Ashes is a Phoenix - just the SUL of the lineup. I also didn't care for the TE vents at last years WSIKF, but that was definitely at the low end of the wind range for that sail (std). This was before the Ashes was added to his set. In their proper winds, one of my teammates that has a set, has no issues flying along with the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 20 years??? SURE they will - if you never fly them!! Or at least don't push their wind range too much and switch sails as the wind changes. I do have an old Rev 1 from 98-99 still in my bag. Held up pretty well over the years, but I don't fly it a lot unless alone and want to fool around with something "old school"! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exult Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 So how does polyester or nylon ripstop age? I'm thinking of my Flying Edge (kite model or brand?, mid 80-ies), Jam Session (end of 90-ies), (end of 90-ies) Maestrale, (end of 90-ies) Paw (end of 90-ies) and City session (end of 90-ies) when considering the case of no UV radiation - kite just being exposed to air? Already noticed that the rubber string nock sail tension string of the Flying Edge is no longer flexible, but more or less breaks when being touched. Should they be handled with silk gloves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 Eventually if flown - sun wears the color and fabric from the UV rays it is exposed to every time you fly. Some parts wear faster, rubber fittings seem most vulnerable. Really old kites with vinyl fittings are terrible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 I have a lot of 90's kites and all the issues I've experienced are connectors getting brittle. Sails seem to hold up pretty good Sent from my XT1575 using KiteLife mobile app 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted April 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 Yes, with modifications, it seems that the kites will last much longer. I became grumpy with Rev when the leading edge mesh ripped in my Full Vent (after ~4-5 years in rough conditions) and my MidVent (after only 2-3 years of gentle use). I tried to contact Rev multiple times, with no response. I finally had them repaired by Eliot Schook, and it looks like the two will last for many more years. Single investment for a lifetime of use. NO. If I didn't know people and have Kitelife at my back, I would've had to buy new kites, or give it up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 I believe that Rev is not looking to sell kites to the 5,000 avid quad flyers in the world who fly twice a week or more. I think when they say a lifetime of fun, it means the 13 BILLION people who don't own one, and would fly it once or twice per year, or fly it once and park it in the garage for the rest of their life. The bungees would have to be replaced several times, if they fly it occasionally, but with a little care the rest should last a lifetime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Back to the original ad of this thread. Would it really cost Rev a lot to guarantee their kites for a lifetime? Sent from my XT1575 using KiteLife mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffclown Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 their entire aftermarket for extra parts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 their entire aftermarket for extra parts. But they would not have to replace owner broken parts. Just defectiveSent from my XT1575 using KiteLife mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffclown Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 they dont know (or refuse to acknowledge) the difference. The green trimmed rod debacle comes to mind. They blamed the customers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted April 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, esinger said: But they would not have to replace owner broken parts. Just defective Sent from my XT1575 using KiteLife mobile app I don't feel that the mesh tears were my fault. My Full Vent, yeah... the mesh tears got MUCH worse when I flew it in & out of icy salt water, but the midvent ? No, I treated that kite with care & flew it maybe a quarter the time the FV had in the air. It's the folding of the kite & putting it in the bag that wore it out, even though I was careful with both. I might fly more than the average Joe, but hell, if you dump a few hundred on a kite, I think you might not be the average Joe. I've talked with passerby's on the beach, and their eyes bug if I tell them I spent 75 bucks on a kite... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 They would of course have to protect themselves from people breaking their kite over and over. But also do something about true defects and live up to them.Sent from my XT1575 using KiteLife mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 Planned obsolescence might be the way to describe it. Rev knew that their high end sails were in the hands of mostly serious fliers that would wear them out. Why do you think the "B" pro was developed? It found the weak points of the factory sail and strengthen or improved them. But even those wear out if flown hard. That mesh strip at the LE has always been a weak point, failure to do anything to improve it shows a lack of concern. On my own well flown Zen, I had to put home made wear strips down the verts to stop sail checking and fold strips to fix screen tears. But it won't last forever .....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinger Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 I have been out of the kite community for a decent amount of time and just started to getting back into it. So that's one of the main reasons my kites are still in good shape. Everyone wants to make more money, but not at the expense of quality. Unfortunately that seems rare nowadays. Sent from my XT1575 using KiteLife mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffclown Posted April 24, 2017 Report Share Posted April 24, 2017 When kites become a business that's more important than the kites made, it kind of loses the point.. Kiting is all about having fun, enjoying the wind and sky and company of others that enjoy as well. There is a HUGE difference in a kite store and a store that sells kites.. If you know more about the kites than the person selling you a kite then you might want to consider the impact of the store you are buying from on the kiting hobby as a whole.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Little story... I got a second-hand Gemini from a fellow Kitelifer years ago (I'm sure he'll recognize it from the picture), an original, before the ones with roll-bars. I couldn't figure out the wingtip lashings, so I sent a message to Tim Benson. Within hours he replied, not just with text, but he shot a little video as well. Such an awesome guy. I felt that if he took the time and effort to support his kite to a second-hand owner, that I almost had to buy a modern Gemini to go along with it. So, I did... Yes, I might be spoiled, but unfortunately, he set the bar pretty high for what I expect from a top kite manufacturer. Prism lost my respect, although I still love flying their kites. Rev lost my respect just recently, but I still love flying the B's that I have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydub200 Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 And so you should 9 hours ago, RobB said: ... but I still love flying the B's that I have. So you should. Tim's construction techniques match anybody's and his collaborative kites with Andy Wardley, the Gemini and Deep Space, deserve a space in anybody's kite bags. The later Chris Goff kites are a bit more radical and won't be to everybody's tastes, but they are still excellent kites. And having had the pleasure of meeting Tim at the UK Crantock gatherings, he is one really nice guy. Linda and the kids are pretty special too. What a shame Crantock is no more. I have some very special memories not only of the place, but just as importantly of the people; kite flyers are special after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobB Posted April 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 Hard to believe that there are kites more radical than the Gemini. I feel that I am still not ready for the Gemini. I have to get them out and see, I guess. Sorry to hear that Crantock isn't happening anymore, that looked like an amazing gathering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted April 25, 2017 Report Share Posted April 25, 2017 As a follow-up to my Rev 1 experience - I got a 5th hand set of "B" pros several years ago. At this point, both the std and mid have finally given up the ghost and the f/v is a ticking time bomb waiting to fail. Homemade wear strips extended their lives some, but the screen tears and the sail fabric flat wearing out, has doomed them to strictly street duty as of now. (lots of tape to hold them together) Both sails tore right at the TE, from center panel out towards tip. Bought a std from Bazzer before he left for OZ, left now with figuring out where to get a replacement series. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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