No love for the Reflex line?

[peterbruusmadsen]

Hi. I'm relative new to kites and are looking to get a revolution. Right now I'm flying a HQ Mojo, but I would like to have more stability and control, hence the wish for a revolution.

 

The Reflex seems to be a good "all in one" kite (I know that such a thing don't really exist). It flies in a relative large range of wind and seems to be easy to fly. What are the drawbacks to it?

 

Is there any other rev kite I should be looking for instead?

 

I can fly the Mojo relative good, but I/it lack the ability to fly really precise, both in flight and in changing position in hover without moving to much around.

 

Bering in Denmark, Europe the selecting is rather limeted, although I have found a store in England that have a good range of rev's.

[riffclown]

The Freilein Kites seems to be getting a lot of attention and the workmanship on them is top notch.. I have 6 Freileins and can't even find a single stitch out of place.. If you can find an older Rev B-series (Not their "Classic") it would be a good choice.. An older 1.5 with no Reflex Springs would also be a good choice.. If you find an SLE though, try to avoid the 7/16" Leading Edge.. While it's very stiff and sturdy, it's also quite heavy and does change the way the kite flies.  Even an EXP (Pre-Spring) would be a great step in the right direction. ***Note.. For Some Reason Rev seems to think everyone wants Springs and that's simply not true.. Some people LOVE them.. Some not so much. I honestly fall into the latter category.)

If you are proficient on the HQ Mojo, the Rev/Freileins or similar design will be an absolute dream to fly.

[Wayne Dowler]

If all you can get your hands on are the new sails - you can always get a couple of extra spars and use them as verticals without springs! Try looking for used if possible. Might be difficult in your locale.

The classic is a renamed "B", with the same panel layout, dimensions, etc.

[makatakam]

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

The Reflex is just a Rev kite with a different panel layout and pattern, plus the reflex "springs". The springs change the flight characteristics of the kite. It will fly more easily in very low winds, and floats better in ground recovery glides, and will fly further out at the edge of the window. It can also be recovered from the face-down, leading edge towards you position just like a Speed Series Rev. However, it will not move upwind for the catch and throw trick, has a floaty feel to it and feels lighter on the lines, makes axels more difficult and is a bit slower overall.

As riffclown said, some people like it, some don't. If your style of flying is "yank and spank" you probably won't like it. If your style is "grace and precision" you probably will. It is not bad or good, just different. It is made and designed as well as any Revolution kite, and if you find that you don't like the springs, you can just bend them back, remove them, or use uprights with no springs. The newer models are built on the 1.5 format and frames are interchangeable with other Revs of that size. Early models have larger frames that are not interchangeable. With the springs disabled it flies like a regular Rev.

I have flown one of the early models, and found it to be a capable kite. I don't own one since I can modify one of the many Revs I have by installing a similar spring, and have already experimented with making 3D Rev sails. It is a bit more expensive, but on  the plus side it incorporates many of the design improvements that were pioneered on models that are no longer available. Lately I have not been paying as much attention as I should have to know exactly what is new and standard on the newer Rev models, so please check with the company before you purchase.

 

[SKS65]

Hi Peter

You can also look at depaddestoel.nl. A  top kite shop in the Netherlands. They sell almost every model (the new and 'old' ones) and they give a nice discount at this moment

The owner is a really nice guy. Send them an e-mail if you have any question. I'm sure he  can help you

[makatakam]

Thanks SKS65! There you go, Peter, that's a fairly short trip for you. And maybe fly a bit with the guys there. Definitely worth a phone call. 

[peterbruusmadsen]

Wow, thanks for all the answers and advice.

So, if I get a Reflex and another pair of verticals, I can turn it into a non-reflex and get the best of both worlds? Or at least try both types and see which I like the most.

Anyway, a huge thanks for all the replies. I will read them again a couple of times, to make sure I get it all.

[Bill Clay]

Yes, as long as you don't buy the XX model. That sail is not compatible with the standard 1.5 frame. Trust me, I learned that lesson the hard way... lol.


Sent from my iPhone using KiteLife mobile app

[peterbruusmadsen]

Thanks Bill. Will stay away from the XX model

[peterbruusmadsen]

So, if you had to choose between these two, which would you pick?

https://www.kiteworld.co.uk/acatalog/Revolution-1-5-Reflex-Classic-.html#SID=78


https://www.kiteworld.co.uk/acatalog/Revolution-Kites---Rev-1.5-Reflex-RX.html#SID=78


The Reflex Classic comes with "standard" vertical spars in the package, so I would have the opportunity to both go Reflex og non-reflex right away.

The Reflex RX seems to have better wear and stress reinforcement, which would seem to be a plus.

[riffclown]

Honestly, that store still has some B-series in stock. Those come with a complete second Frame and would be my first choice.

[makatakam]

10 hours ago, peterbruusmadsen said:

So, if I get a Reflex and another pair of verticals, I can turn it into a non-reflex and get the best of both worlds? Or at least try both types and see which I like the most.

You don't even need an extra set of verticals. You can just turn the ones with the springs to face the other way, in other words, just don't engage them.

[Paul LaMasters]

Classic,

best of the old, slapped together with the new stuff too. Standard frames, b series panel layout for the sail,..... plus the reflex mechanism.  It is not a hindrance, just different than what you are use too.  More edge power, bigger window, killer glides too, who knows you may enjoy the differences.

this model I've flown and enjoyed best, the big original I owe, it is not in the A bag though. (It should be noted the Zens don't fit either)

honestly you can get almost the same effect as the reflex mechanism thru tuning the knots of elastic, washers etc on a stock b-series, such that a pronounced curvature is added up at the top by the leading edge, between the down spars and the sail.  The end caps on the top of the down spars have to be locked down with the knots and crap secured behind.  You should be able to insert your hand in the gap!

want to test tuning the difference,.....? You don't even need line or handles, just "throw" the kite, it will suddenly glide away magically, like a spun frizzbee, acres of distance from just a hint of decent technique.

the classic gives you this out of the box, only if you want it. Otherwise? It is just another rev 1.5 patterned after the series we all know.

[peterbruusmadsen]

Thank you for your answers guys

Is there any spar parts I should ordre with the kite. What will typically brake?

[Edmond Dragut]

i will go on eBay ore other kite sites and i will buy a Rev 1,5 old model,Rev B ore Pro(1.5 are a lot on eBay) i am not happy with Reflex flying in low and high winds ((is ok between 3 and 6)and for that i will do not chose any reflex models. how already other stated i will probably buy a classic and a regular frame or take of the springs (if you opt for a brand new). 

if you are a beginner you will break the leading edge,if you fly in high wins most of the time you break a spar. a good option for reserve spars is one with ferules and one without. in this way you cover anything you may break.be careful thou, depending the kite model you may have a spar with 2 ferules or two spars with a single one(at least this is what i received on mi 3 wrap frame full vent) 

[peterbruusmadsen]

Thanks for the advice, but I have already ordered the Classic Reflex, so will just have to see how it is. Can't be any worse then my Mojo

[riffclown]

From someone who owns and flies a Mojo, you see a night and day difference..

the only drawback to the "Classic" is your don't get an extra frame like you do (did)  with the B-series and the price doesn't usually reflect the shortage of an extra Leading edge... With the B-series you got a 2 wrap and a 3 wrap frame which extended your wind range and performance windows..

[Edmond Dragut]

with some adjustments Mojo may be improved and will fly similar to Rev. i will fly that classic Reflex in 2 ways, with springs loaded and without springs on the same session to see how i feel the kite better and in witch configuration i am more happy 

[peterbruusmadsen]

Thanks guys. I'm hoping it will get here within a week, and looking forward to getting to know it and see what I think of it both with and without the springs.

 

A huge thanks to all of you for helping me begin the journey. This is a great forum and I'm learning a lot, reading the older posts here.

 

 

[peterbruusmadsen]

Just out of curiosity Edmond. What modifications can I make to the Mojo to make it fly better?

I still think it's a great learning tool, as it really can take a beating without snapping something. The leading edge allows for some really really hard hits, but at the same time, this come with a sacrifice, and hope to get more precise control with the Rev.

[Edmond Dragut]

first and most important the bridle. Replace the Mojo bridle with a Rev one. will be with 3 inch bigger at leading edge and with 1 inch at the spars. you may adjust that making new knots when you pass the bridle by end caps.

next will be to use Rev handles. 13" and 15" will be good how long you have 3 knots on the bottom and at least 5 knots on top.bottom leader should be around 3" long and top around 7" mounted on the handle 

last will be lines. buy quality laser or skybond lines or if you have experience stretch the line provided by Mojo follow by equalization. Most of the time Dyneema lines are not pre-stretched.

i am sure using just one of this three suggestions you will feel improvement in control

[peterbruusmadsen]

Thanks Edmond, will give it a try

[RaginCajun]

Has anyone actually used a 1.5 rod on a newer Reflex 1.5? The newer rods, with the internal ferrules are 5/16 whereas the regular 1.5 rods are 1/4. 

[Wayne Dowler]

Aren't the end "innies" tapered or shaped to fit both?

[RaginCajun]

Guess I'll have to get my Revs out and find out.