Reasons for Multiple Kites in Quiver/Arsenal?

[JaseRicco]

So the question I have...Is there a point to having multiple kites that do the same thing? I understand the want in having a good all around stunt kite, and a kite that is more advanced allowing for more trickery, and even having a quad in the arsenal...all do different things and are for different flying experiences and moods. If you feel like a relaxing easy fly chose the all around kite. If however you want to get out there and practice those moves and learn some new ones, break out the advanced kite. And if you want an all around different experience, get out there with a quad. But is there a real difference between kites in each category i.e. Prism Nexus & Prism Quantum. I happen to own both. Prism Nexus just happened to be the first stunt kite I got into kiting with, and the Quantum was the first upgrade. But I can't think of a reason that I would ever chose to fly the Nexus over the Quantum now that I have felt the Quantum fly. I love the size of the Quantum vs. the Nexus, and I love the feel of the fly that the Quantum has vs. the Nexus. So, given my thought process, I am thinking of selling the Nexus. But I figured I would pose the question here before I make a hasty decision. Maybe there is something that I haven't thought of, or maybe there are some real differences between the two that I am not utilizing.

As always, any thoughts and advice is welcome 

Regards,

Jason

[riffclown]

OK that's a loaded question if I ever saw one BUT..first WELCOME TO KITELIFE!!!!  The simple answer is, if you have a specific set of flying parameters you like, then a kite that fits those parameters across specific wind ranges is in order.. I personally have a lot of overkill in my bag BUT each kite does get flown under the right circumstances..Typically you'll have a High wind, moderate wind and low wind variety of kite to fit your flying style. The lower and higher your wind possibilities are the more drastic your bag becomes on an exponential level.. You fly in no wind, then you've got (at least for quads) SUL kites like a Zen or similar..You fly in high wind (like me) you have multiple ranges of vented/mesh etc. to meet those wind conditions..

It's all a matter of preference but I'd say a minimum of three or four kites of varying venting options will cover your range of wind for almost any given day.

Kiter's rule of thumb, if you bring it you won't need it. Leave a single kite home and that will be the one you needed for that day. no matter the forecast..

 

 

[makatakam]

Yup, what he said, and a whole lot more that you'll come to know if you stay with it. Kites are a compromise of characteristics that make one preferable over others in specific wind conditions. There is no one-size-fits-all kite. As you fine tune your skills you will become aware of things the kite you're flying can't do when you want it to. You try what the guy next to you is flying effortlessly and you decide you got to have one. The next time you get those wind conditions may be months away, but you'll be ready when they come. That's how the addiction begins. Before you know it there's 17 kites in your bag, but you are confident that you'll be able to fly in whatever conditions exist. The only limitation is your budget. The smiles are endless, and new friends just keep on coming. Remember the most important rule of kite flying -- have fun 'til it hurts.

[SHBKF]

Some of us are just kite hoarders.  A few of the dualies in the assorted category down in the Kite Dungeon.  Five years ago I thought kites were kind of an expensive extravagance.  SHBKF 

[mebeatee]

If you have the kiting bug big time....ask the same question in a year from now and you'll have probably answered your question by counting your kites. Not to mention how many line sets you have.....

bt

[SparkieRob]

Yes.
I find that my time to fly is not regular so I like to be prepared for any wind.
Usually it is more depending on wind. I have a full suite of Revs so I can Quad no matter the wind. I'm working on a similar ethos with my Sevens so I can Dual too.
With duals though, you tend to get more Standards and Ultralights in bag.

Your kite bag will depend on your current kite flavour.


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[Kansas Flier]

You should hang onto the Nexus. Use it when you are showing someone else how to fly.  Once you acquire more kites, the Quantum will be doing the teaching duties.

 

Several people have already mentioned having several kites for different winds. Remember, if you get different versions of the same kite, I.E. Extra super ultralight, super ultralight, ultralight, light-standard, standard, vented, mid-vent, maxi-vent, and a bridled frame, for kite counting purposes, when audited by a significant other, this counts as one kite.

[Tim P.]

Like everyone else has said, I carry multiple kites for different conditions. I have duals for no wind, low wind, light to moderate wind, "standard" wind... and I like to have a backup for each one in case something breaks so I can keep flying until I can get home and repair the breakage. Same deal with the quads, although I don't have the variety and backups like with the duals...yet. Same with linesets, various lengths for both duals and quads in 50#, 100# and 150# weights. You gotta be prepared!

[riffclown]

And honestly sometimes it's about, "I like this color better today."

[Exult]

I think you asked a good question @JaseRicco (which I noticed that I missed the details of and instead answered the more general question as asked in the topic headline). My recommendation (though I haven't tried neither the Nexus nor the Quantum, but for reasons as below): Keep the Nexus!

Reasons for many kites:

• Trick learning. You typically learn a trick on one kite that is more natural for that certain kite. You then transfer it to other kites. Many kites are an encouragement to try something new.
• A library of properties. Any kite that you have used a lot becomes a kind of reference. Moves of interest you achieved with a kite a long time ago are still there. E.g. when I started my second period of more serious kiting about 2.5 years ago I got a couple of old (as in model, new in terms of use) Prism kites for a good price, but when I picked up my old much used HQ Jam Session it felt like I was instantly at home - I had not used it during this millennium however except for a couple of times (<5 times in the first few years of it). I don't want to loose the effort/experience that I have invested in a kite by parting from it.
• A guest kite. A durable kite that you don't care for much yourself to allow guests to do the mandatory lawn darts. The guest can be someone you end up talking to at the field or someone invited. I have a HQ quickstep 2 on long and better lines than those that came with the kite. What is good about that kite, is that it, is cheap, doesn't know that is small and ought to be twitchy, but turns slowly as a much larger kite and also that it just doesn't break.
• Wind ranges of different kites. As several others stated above, this is an important one. Pick the kite of the available ones that suites the wind best! Kite properties are more secondary for decent kites at least. The wind range argument is also something that my wife can grasp, which can be of use when acquiring kites.
• Stacks and multi kiting. Obviously you need more than one kite here and in neither case there is the requirement of identical kites.
• Curiosity. How would that kite be like? It can be that you have read about a kite and think that its properties would suit you or make you evolve, you have seen a video and got inspired (warning, someone that is extremely good is likely to be the pilot in that video) or you might want to try something different like larger kites, precision biased kites, speed kites, foils, gliders or QLKs. The object of your curiosity can be a new kite or one that remains to be further investigated. Unfortunately I don't have access to OPKs (other peoples kites - no serious DLK (or QLK) kiters seems to be around here to my knowledge), so if I want to try something I need to buy it. Also a kite that you don't understand at the time of purchase might make sense later. I didn't like the light frame of my City Session (bought it by the end of the 90-ies and just used it a couple of times due to the light frame), but now after having gotten used to the Prism 4D and HQ Shadow I should reevaluate it.
• Availability of kites (added 2nd of Aug.). The kites should be at hand when you need them. Dependent upon your situation that extra set of kites could be at work, in the car (warning cars when parked in the sun can get very hot - can your kites take it?) or at an alternative place of living. Imagine a good day at work and you manage to finish in time, get a phone call from home saying that you have no obligations this afternoon/evening and that the conditions are good - wouldn't you then wish that you had a couple of kites at work? Position the kites that don't see much air strategically and get those old sins (broken kites) repaired so that they can turn into spare kites.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Exult
One more reason

[Wayne Dowler]

He said A quad!!! "snicker"  Most of us that do fly them, have more than A quad!! Try 4-5 different sail options to match conditions! Same with dualies - Gotta have several to cover different winds!

[makatakam]

3 hours ago, Wayne Dowler said:

He said A quad!!! "snicker"  Most of us that do fly them, have more than A quad!! Try 4-5 different sail options to match conditions! Same with dualies - Gotta have several to cover different winds!

I'm already past A quad and past B quad, coming up, I think is O quad. I'm gonna skip P and R and go directly to S quad, which I intend to fly with a group of other flyers.

P.S. -- JB's past I quad and into X quad.

[Mikelp3586]

I know I have a problem when I have new kites yet to be flown and I purchase more [emoji23]


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[JaseRicco]

Wow, so many responses, so much information. @riffclown, @makatakam, @SHBKF, @Barry Taylor, @SparkieRob, @KansasFlier, @Tim P., @Exult, WayneDowler @Mikelp3586 thanks so much for all the info. Much appreciated, but I fear that I am more confused then when I posed my question, or maybe it's just that I have more questions now...same thing I guess. The consensus that I am pulling from all of the info provided is wind and preference are the main reasons for having multiple kites. But these reasons, especially the wind, pose more questions then it answers;

1. What is considered to be Light, Moderate and Strong winds? I would venture to say that Light winds would be 1-7, Moderate(also knows as the perfect wind speed) would be 8-12, and strong would be 13-??...all give or take of course.
2. How can you be sure what kites will perform best in any given wind? Its obvious in my short experience thus far that you cannot take the manufacture specs regarding wind range capabilities as a true guide, only as a VERY ROUGH estimate. If I use the Nexus and Quantum as examples, the manufacture states the wind range on both of these kites at 3 & 4 mph - 22 & 25 mph respectively. This has certainly proven inaccurate, or maybe I am just ignorant to what "flying" in low wind actually means. When I see 3-4mph I assume, again maybe naively, that one would have to do very little to keep the kite in the air since the kite is rated for that wind range. However, when flying in these wind conditions I seem to have to do a lot of finagling and walking to keep the kite aloft. It could also be that I am just a bad judge of wind speeds at this point. Weather apps also seem to be highly inaccurate because every time I have tried to fly the app states the wind to be @ 8 mph or stronger. So maybe what I thought to be strong enough winds were actually not even close. But as I compose this response, I am thinking that what is actually meant by 3-4mph is the ability to keep the kite aloft while doing a lot of finagling and walking. Because technically while doing these two things the kite is in the air, its just not staying aloft as easily as it would in stronger winds.
3. And what about strong winds? What does a kite performing well in strong winds look like? Seems like the kites that I have perform well across moderate and strong wind ranges. But are we simply talking about kites that are designed and built well enough to handle strong winds without any type of undue stress or breakage? If so I think that both the Nexus and Quantum fit this criteria as I have flown them both in what I would consider to be some gusty windy shore days.
4. So of course points 2 & 3 bring me to the question…If I have a kite that is considered to perform well in moderate to strong winds, and I have nothing for low winds, what are some of the best kites for low winds? Each kite website that I have been to seems to mention the same kite over and over when it comes to low wind…Prism 4d. I have seen some of HQ’s low wind kites listed as well…like the Stratus. Any recommendation on a low wind kite in the $125 & under price range? Preferably low wind kites that are actually owned and flew on a regular basis.
5. And my final question is the same one that I originally asked regarding the necessity for two kites that do the same things. If we have established that neither the Nexus nor the Quantum are preferable kites for low wind conditions, and that I would need to purchase such a kite, is there a reason, other than preference, addiction hoarding lol and allowing others to practice on a kite I have no attachment to, that I would keep the Nexus? Because I love the size of the Quantum, the pull and feedback that I get when it is in the air, and how smooth it flies, I am afraid that the Nexus will just sit and grow dust, because again, if both kites do well in moderate to strong winds, then there would never be a reason that I would chose to fly the Nexus over the Quantum. The Quantum is such a better flying kite by far. The only difference I have noticed so far, and to quote Prism, is how “quick, agile and radical” the Nexus is compared to the Quantum.  But again, I love the solid pull and smoother feel of the Quantum. I’m not really about the speedy kite flying. So are there specific things that can be done or learned on either kite that you cant with the other? Are there specific advantages in having a small, lighter hybrid kite(Nexus 5ft wing span / .9375lbs / Pultruded Carbon/Fiberglass) vs. a larger, heavier carbon kite(Quantum 7ft wing span / 1.5625lbs / .098 Pultruded Carbon)?

I know a lot of this may be trial and error, especially when it comes to wind and kites that compliment that wind, but without having the budget to back it given the cost of each kite, I am trying to make intelligent decisions on each kite I pic. As I get into it, then I can decide based more on in-depth knowledge of this hobby and simple design/color preferences. For now I just want to have 2 or three kites that will keep me flying consistently. And I don’t even want to get into Quads, line sets or anything else for that matter, because I am afraid that my head will explode  . I think it best to stick with the above for now . But thanks again for all the info and advice. Certainly much appreciated. I feel very welcomed to the forum.

[Tmadz]

All of your questions will be answered with experience and knowledge. Start researching all of the previous threads here. There are a couple of other forums with more dual line knowledge too. It's a niche sport/hobby so you'll have to dig deep to find the info you're looking for. It would take too long to try to answer here 

Light, moderate, strong winds can vary depending on build/type of kite.

As far as Nexus vs Quantum. I would never compare Nexus to a Quantum or a Quantum Pro. A nexus is a throw it up and fly it kite. Tricks can be difficult to come by for rookies. That's why so many different styles of dual line kite. So many different characteristics. There are ballet kites and trick kites, but they may look very similar

Really, it all comes down to desire. You'll hear a lot of kite fliers around here talking about it being an obsession. We collect kites as much as we fly them. Just like someone collects dolls, beer cans, paintings, etc. because they get appreciation out of it. I have plenty of single line kites too, that I fly because I view them as flying art and appreciate the look and craftsmanship.

We joke about hiding kite purchases from our significant others because we feed our obsession. If you are viewing it as filling specific needs, then you haven't been bitten by the bug like us....yet

[riffclown]

@JaseRicco Keep both kites you have for now and explore their ranges and capabilities in your hands.. That's what really matters, what does the kite do in your hands.  Only when you know everything each kite is capable of, then you can make a the personal decision to keep or sell. You may prefer one over the other in different ways than others who own the same sails.. You'll also gain the insight into what you need to cover other winds ranges we speak of.. If the kite feels like you can't keep it aloft in 3-4 then after adjusting your technique and practicing under those conditions you can select a kite more suited to those conditions. As your skills increase, your abilities with kites near the edge of their range (and in some cases even outside their stated range) become second nature to you.. We've given you the reason we have so many or pack so light.. What lines we prefer and even what styles we use.. the bottom line is your question is a personal question that only you can adequately answer for yourself.

The bigger the hurry to answer the question, the higher likelihood of spending more money than required short term on additional kites that may overlap the capabilities of what you already own.  Take your time, learn everything you can about your kites and then decide what YOU want to do next with additional kites, lines or selling kites that"overlap" too much...

We all enjoy flying and collecting as said above. They can co-exist but their purpose doesn't necessarily overlap..Enjoy the kite, enjoy the wind, and enjoy deciding what's truly best for you.. There is no substitute for time spent holding the lines and/or handles. Shortcuts and attempted shortcuts often just cost more in the long run..

[SHBKF]

I got a Nexus early on.  Here's what I did when I found out Prism sold a stacked version of the kite.

 Of course I got a bit carried away with the idea.  I decided I needed all blue ones & stacked them myself. Making stack link lines was one of my first kite projects.  Spectators really love seeing stacks fly, especially with the tails attached.  Five of these kind of turns them into a power kite if you don't mind a little work out.  So, what color is your Nexus?  I know somebody that might need a blue one.

SHBKF

[Kansas Flier]

6 hours ago, JaseRicco said:

Any recommendation on a low wind kite in the $125 & under price range? Preferably low wind kites that are actually owned and flew on a regular basis.

Skydog UL. It has a red sail with a black tip. The standard is black with a red tip. Even though I use it as my "teaching kite" in low wind, I do fly it a lot. You will still have to do some walking in its lower wind range, but it will take the punishment of learning to fly in low wind.

6 hours ago, JaseRicco said:

However, when flying in these wind conditions I seem to have to do a lot of finagling and walking to keep the kite aloft.

As for the low wind flying, it can be a workout. It will also help your piloting skills to be able to fly either kite in its low wind range. It helped my skills(not that anyone but myself can tell).  I learned the basics, techniques, and tricks of low wind flying on my Quantum. 

6 hours ago, JaseRicco said:

And what about strong winds? What does a kite performing well in strong winds look like?

Put a 50 or 100 foot tail on the Nexus and have fun. The wingtips on the Nexus will flutter when it is getting high in it's wind range. I think the Quantum does this as well.  I like the sound of a noisy kite roaring through the wind window when the wind is up.

You can adjust the bridle for the wind conditions.

As for what does the kite that is performing well look like, it depends on what "style" of flying you are attempting- tricks, precision, ballet, speed, fun, noise or any combination- on whether or not the kite is performing well. 

 

[JaseRicco]

4 hours ago, SHBKF said:

So, what color is your Nexus?  I know somebody that might need a blue one.

Unfortunately it's the yellow colorway.

[John Barresi]

12 hours ago, makatakam said:

I'm already past A quad and past B quad, coming up, I think is O quad. I'm gonna skip P and R and go directly to S quad, which I intend to fly with a group of other flyers.

P.S. -- JB's past I quad and into X quad.

[Mstroke2017]

Where to start? I have been flying since the '80s and I love it! I have just about all my kites from then til now, each one was purchased for a specific place I've flown, from here in NJ, all the way to Diego Garcia BIOT...each place has unique winds and conditions, I bought kites and lines for each since all I wanted to do was fly on my off time...I will admit I also bought kites for looks, I purchased a TOL Team Hawaiian and a 3/4 Hawaiian, custom made in Blue hues, and then I stacked them, they look beautiful, and pull like a horse...but that was a "I want" purchase...I started with one box kite purchsed in Hawaii on my honeymoon, well two kites, she loved the unicorn...lol neither of these kites never flew in Hawaii, wind way too strong, and me not knowing enough to adjust the bridle...however, I have both kites, no wife, so you can see where this is going...lol The kites have been flown in San Diego, but only the box kite has been flown in NJ...now I know you're asking about the stunt kites, those are what I was explaining about wind, lines etc...my experience has been if you can learn to fly in low wind conditions then you'll find it easier to fly in stronger winds up to the upper moderate winds, after that it's different since the kite pulls harder and moves faster...now I have all sorts of kites from single to quad lines, small to huge show kites, hard spar, and foils, inflatables and complex crazy contructions, and I have a trailer for the car and one for my bike...lol I'll let you all know when I get the third trailer...

Hope this was helpful...

[kitedad]

you think spending tons on kites is bad, try skiing at 600-1000 for a set of skis with no bindings. Fat skis for powder, narrower skis for groomers, slalom skis, gets spendy quick. It's much the same for kites different conditions need different tools, different skis have a different feel same as kites the end result is how much do you fine tune your equipment to your desired performance level and how much cash your willing to throw at it. It's all good if that's what you love to do. You can't take it with you, {the kites and skis maybe, cash no}

[Paul LaMasters]

most folks never get over this fact, at least from my own experience

you'll spend more money on travel        to fly kites with your friends        than you do on your kites!  Even with a few complimentary gigs received including int'l events, I still shell out thousands annually for travel, kites are merely hundreds.

I'm probably 10 to 1 and have been for a couple of decades, I can't afford to do every great festival, but the ones I attend, I expect to enjoy myself immensely whilst on-site.  

My bride is even more expectant, she won't sleep on a prison floor just because it is free!  Can you imagine using the bathroom on the first floor and the ceiling falls on your head while you are resting on the throne with the newspaper?  That happened to Janette Van Meers at the Knock in OC!

My best girl likes at arrive earlier and stay later, to get the "lay of the land and enjoy the aftermath".  That first and last day? Those dates are strictly for travel, set-up, unpacking, arranging the kitchen, shopping for what we forgot at home.  When traveling without my Barbara beside me, I won't drive all night to get home after a long weekend of flying either.

 

[Ca Ike]

There is also the way you want to fly that day. For example, some days I want the easy floaty feel of my vapor with its super flat and slow axels and pinwheels and sometimes it's my ocius sul or fearless light for the trickier stuff. Some days I want to tell myself I'm going to make my stranger L7 do what I want it to do (pipe dream I know [emoji23]). Other times it being dragged around by my tensor or a stack. The variety keeps things fresh.


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