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riffclown

Screening Question

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While I have answered this question many times in the past for others, I've only parroted the conventional wisdom and given the explanation most accepted.. The Screen (or holes) along the leading edge definitely affect reverse flight BUT my question is.. If you've flown one without either, was the kite completely unwieldy or just difficult to fly in reverse?? Please respond only if you've flown one without either the LE Mesh or LE Holes..

I understand the principle behind it but want to explore a different tact.. Would like to hear the voice of experience.

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Riff only one I’ve flow is the Supersonic. Way different beast but flys in reverse quite well. ? About the ABS I’ll have to get it out and look at it. Ok looked online and it’s not vented at the leading edge either. It flys very well in reverse.

 

 

Sent from my IPhone

 

 

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Thank You, Also noted the SuperSonic is also quite a bit stiffer at the LE junction than would be typical..

I'm asking because I'm trying to bypass that need in the night kite with lights.. It's getting pretty heave and right now I'm looking at a 126" LE..

Thank you again for the response.

 

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I've only flown an indoor, once. But Joe recently said that an experienced pilot could easily overcome whatever variances the lack of mesh causes. 

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Yes -- have built and flown without LE venting. More difficult to control in reverse as the air has a lesser ability to exit the sail. It actually creates an air dam that traps more air at the LE. Becomes dramatically more difficult as the wind speed increases. Holes or a belt-loop style LE are viable options that will keep total weight at a minimum. The reason that doesn't happen on a Supersonic is that the LE is curved towards the back and the air can slide right off. That's why it flies faster in reverse -- minimum drag. Don't get me wrong, the kite will fly without the mesh or other means of dumping air. It just makes it more difficult and less enjoyable as you spend more time fighting the kites tendency to bowtie, especially in stronger wind. If you really want to keep the weight down you can use a belt-loop style LE pocket that is the same material as the sail. However, this leaves a large percentage of the surface of the LE tube exposed, so you have to be careful with how often you allow it to contact the ground and how severely.

The photo shows how the LE pocket is just the sail itself folded over and the holes hot cut from the area that is doubled over. The ABS in reverse flight channels air out toward the tips and dumps it there because of the way it is curved.

 

DSCN2637.JPG

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the speed series of kites has a curvature built into the leading edge, it works both left to right from the center point out, as well as OVER the top (to the back of the sail).  The difference is a dinner plate compared to a frisbee kicked off of a table, one falls and the other glides away no problem at all.  The curved surface allows for a nice penetrating glide upwind or down.

Th mesh is excess weight on a low wind or indoor kite, completely unnecessary!

do you want it to fall (like with the falling leaf trick) or do you want it to glide, like the throw and catch.  It's highly unlikely you can have both in equal measures.

The Shooks weaves are probably going to be delivered with holes in a the sleeve as opposed to the actual venting material  from now on, HEY it's lighter in weight that way and still flies fantastic!

So do you need the venting, maybe,... but not on every kite that's for sure!  decide if your wind range should address this issue before beginning a project asa builder.

It is a constant source of discomfort for many of us, all tattered and ripped away, when the leading edge could be reinforced so easily, place a tab at the folds at least and double the life of the sail immediately.

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I think there’s something to be said for the cup of the sail too, I find that flat quads like the Supersonic or ABS are less effected by lack of leading edge venting since they tend to “slide” through the wind more than “drive” and cup like a 1.5 type kite. Stiffer spars also contribute to a flatter kite.

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No way I'll be doing much throw and catch with this monster.. 130" LE and a heavy heavy sail to boot with all the lights and electronics.  I decided to leave the screening out in my night kite.. I may add holes in the center section if the belly is too overpowering.. I definitely appreciate all of the input. Not sure I'm worried about reverse too much in this sail.. I'm thinking may a dive stop or two but mostly just forward flight. The more I adjust this kite the narrower the wind range will be of course.. IF all else fails, it'll be a flag.. :)

 

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I thought about it but the effect I'm getting is something I'm not willing to give up on at this point. 7 isn't enough for me on this one.

If I absolutely have to, i can sew a screen strip on and back cut it.

 

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visuals against weight, that is always the issue:

Super light weight (so lite you don't have to remove the devices EVER) isn't the visual impact of powerful light set-up.

64 LEDs programmed and powered by a rechargeable 3.7 volt battery (Like the 9 foot mesh weave deltas available from Cobra Kites in NJ).  They fly in very low wind, absolutely light up the field underneath themselves and don't rip your arms out if it's actually windy and you want to wind in the lines at the end of the evening.

but on a quad you make up for that lack of visuals overpowering the darkness by your flight control, or you've got the coolest ground display ever built for a night fly.  No one wants to be that guy who pulled everyone out of the sky all wrapped up!

When I fly at night, I always go one sail lighter than conditions actually warrant, to make up for dew/moisture/increased weight of kite lights,/lack of good vision, particularly if walking backwards to maintain flight on occasion.

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While I have answered this question many times in the past for others, I've only parroted the conventional wisdom and given the explanation most accepted.. The Screen (or holes) along the leading edge definitely affect reverse flight BUT my question is.. If you've flown one without either, was the kite completely unwieldy or just difficult to fly in reverse?? Please respond only if you've flown one without either the LE Mesh or LE Holes..
I understand the principle behind it but want to explore a different tact.. Would like to hear the voice of experience.

I have a printed sail form OSKUSA, I’ll try to post a picture
I heard the same thing, it won’t fly backwards well.
Well it does, so please stop telling my kite it can’t do that while it’s doing thatIMG_0782.JPG


Sent from my iPad using KiteLife mobile app
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6 hours ago, Joe Eyman said:


I have a printed sail form OSKUSA, I’ll try to post a picture
I heard the same thing, it won’t fly backwards well.
Well it does, so please stop telling my kite it can’t do that while it’s doing thatIMG_0782.JPG


Sent from my iPad using KiteLife mobile app

It would move faster backwards if it had LE venting and would have less tendency to bowtie in reverse. I'm not saying that that it can't do it, just that it takes more finesse and control on the part of the pilot. So once you have really good control of reverse flight with this kite, flying one that has the venting is sooooo much easier. No matter what you do, though, it will be slower without it. That's just pure aerodynamics. An airfoil that has more drag will be slower.

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On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 2:46 AM, makatakam said:

DSCN2637.JPG

Is that a white sail that's been printed? Looks fantastic!!!! :)

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5 hours ago, Chook said:

Is that a white sail that's been printed? Looks fantastic!!!! :)

Yes, but it's falling off in many places. If you look closely you can see it. Very easy to do. Two-inch 3M blue painters' tape, can of red, can of blue. Spray. Flower paint from Michael's.

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It would move faster backwards if it had LE venting and would have less tendency to bowtie in reverse. I'm not saying that that it can't do it, just that it takes more finesse and control on the part of the pilot. So once you have really good control of reverse flight with this kite, flying one that has the venting is sooooo much easier. No matter what you do, though, it will be slower without it. That's just pure aerodynamics. An airfoil that has more drag will be slower.

I understand, this is my go to light wind flyer! So faster is never much of an option. I even understand the flow over the leading edge , just agreeing with Riffclown on what I hear often....a kite can’t do that....


Sent from my iPad using KiteLife mobile app

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