Pull of Synapse 170?

[Twin Roses]

Spring Fever has me doing more window shopping.  Yet another snowstorm in NY.  The Quantum and 4-D are staring at this newbie and feeling neglected;)  Looking for your insight about getting a moderately priced foil for my 13 year old girls.  They're tall and strong for their age.  About 5'5" and 110lbs.  Looking for something with a bit of pull, but not excessive.  They'd get a kick out of being dragged through the sand a few feet. But I don't need air borne kids;)  And if it could provide some excitement for my husband, well all the better. What are your thoughts about the Synapse 170 or something comparably priced ($80-ish)?  From manufacturer's description, I think the 140 may have too light a pull for them and the 200 too strong.  But would love to hear your thoughts and experiences.  I love the idea that there's nothing to break!

[Edmond Dragut]

Beamer 1.8 work dual and quad line, Synapse 2 M dual, Symphony 1.8m dual and easy to become quad, this for brand names but for fun if you are on budget  go to Amazon or eBay for some Chinese kite at a fraction of the price. Sail and bridle are really good but use trusted brand for lines.

i forget to say, Chinese kites are have less pull then all branded names. mine 5 M quad Rainbow is pulling half less then 3 M Beamer and is fly in less wind

[Edmond Dragut]

Actually foil kites are the beginning of the "dark side" if you start with the right one and they are indestructible. except for the inflatable leading edge once  

a quad foil is 100 times better then a dual just because you have the possibility to relaunch yourself if you crash walking couple steps back

[Breezin]

Go to the GWTW forum. For sale are a bunch of Flexi-Foils.One of the top rated foil makers in the world. Some 1,2 quads in that price range that are brand new. That's close to 1/2 off. Flexi says they tested the kite in 50 mph winds.They have wrist bands that in an emergency de power the kite.  Just make sure they're adjusted for the flyer so they work. Couple years ago the Synapse took the place of the Snapshot. My Snapshot 1.4 will pull nicely in 15 to 20. Over 20 pretty good work out. It relaunches with a couple yanks to get the baffles pointed into the wind. Don't know much but I do know over 2.3 do a lot of research. Understand aspect ratio and go from there. Over 2.3 you can get in harms way real fast. Look at the Spiderkite neon 1.2. Clocked at over 120 mph. That's my next foil and it's $89.00. Got some more learning to do first. Here's an example. Out in 20 plus. Took a break and staked the kite. Relaunched pulled out the stake and went a 1/2 mile south. That is my longest walk of shame so far. Live on the prairie so no trees but  barely missed a barb wire fence. Nearest house that way is a mile off. If it would have went that far might not have seen it again. Neighbor likes anything that flies .The Synapse 140 has polyester lines[More stretch],170 up  have dyneema.

[riffclown]

9 hours ago, Edmond Dragut said:

Beamer 1.8 work dual and quad line, Synapse 2 M dual, Symphony 1.8m dual and easy to become quad, this for brand names but for fun if you are on budget  go to Amazon or eBay for some Chinese kite at a fraction of the price. Sail and bridle are really good but use trusted brand for lines.

i forget to say, Chinese kites are have less pull then all branded names. mine 5 M quad Rainbow is pulling half less then 3 M Beamer and is fly in less wind

Be very careful how you mix those sizes.. Beamer 1.8 is a power kite and is in square meters.. Synapes and Symphony are "SPORT" sizes and are not on the same scale at all.. a 1.8 Beamer is LARGER than a 2.2 Symphony..

Obviously I'm pretty partial to the Symphony.

Here a 2.2 Symphony on top of a 2M HQ Crossfire..

There is a huge difference between sport size and power size. We need to be very careful not to perpetuate that size discrepancy.

[Edmond Dragut]

for that riffclown i recommend her 1.8 Beamer and not bigger . surface of Symphony 2.2 is 1.738 M if you want to use same numbers. comparative picture are nice (2 M Vs 1.738 M) but what you say i know already, SURFACE make the difference.

Breezin, for most of us 20 MPH winds are exception, is 2 maybe 3 times per year, that is the reason i  have a Zen and Indoor Rev.  your choice to pull out any kite on higher then 20.from what i know is not built yet the one to start at 15  withstand a 25 and you to be safe on the ground. 

anyway, please note, all this are Mine opinions based on MI experience  and i accept any changes how long are viable.

Thank you 

[Edmond Dragut]

i forget to mention, i kiteboarding at one point. i had this kites: 4 M slingshot, 7 M  north neo, 10 M Cabrinha , 12 M Slingshot, 13 M Slingshot and 15 M Naish. great kites, great sensation, extremely good rides but with age i realize is to much power for me even after 15 years of competition water polo play. i sold them in a blink without regrets 

But... this is me.

[Twin Roses]

Thanks for sharing all your insights.

Edmond, thanks for all your suggestions, off to research them  Sounds like you have had some very interesting experiences with kites!

Riffclown, excellent info on being careful about mixing sizes.  I had absolutely no clue about this.  Thank you  I was considering the Symphony Beach 2.2 also (comes with Dyneema where the 1.8 doesn't).  Do you think that would be too strong for the 13 year olds in 15 mph wind?

Breezin, lol on the long walk of shame.  Over here, I'd be swimming for it;)  Thanks for summing up the info I was looking for:) Going to go check out the GWTW forum for the kites you mentioned.

[riffclown]

Symphony Beach 2.2 sport kite is a nice kite with a good touch of pull.. The pull of the foil isn't only about wind speed but where in the wind window you fly the kite.. even a small kite zipping through the power zone of the wind window has the capability of yanking you off your feet..

That being said it's a good choice for a starter foil and in consistent winds 5-15mph.. the Synapse, and Prism Snapshot kites are also good choices in the 2.x sport range..

You can go smaller but as skills progress the desire for a bit more pull with come quickly..

If quad is the future, I'd highly suggest staying larger than 2.0 in the sport range.. I've modified a lot of foils and below the 2.0 size they tend to be sluggish with rear bridles..

More on choosing a "power" kite here

 

[Edmond Dragut]

15 mph IMO is to much to give any kite to a 13 year old without a good background in 2 ore 4 lines. if wind is 15 mph the gusts may go up to 25 mph. without the knowledge to go at the edge of the wind window fast ore release one of the lines and collapse the kite some bad things may happen. Some drag is fun, 4-5 fits jumps are exciting, how you end them is the problem.

Here you have a video of Symphony 2.1 in condition close to one you ask with a 215 lbs guy

and second of 8 year  kid on Symphony 1.2 on less then 10 mph IMO

have fun and conclusions are yours

[Breezin]

Caution, caution, caution but calculated risks are exciting. Winds gusting over 15 today so I flew the 1,4 snapshot for about an hour and a half. Iv'e had my 10 and 12 year old grand sons in similar winds but not over 20 and right there with them. If your girls are pulling bows and good shots they will want the excitement. Pull on a kite is different but still pull. Another cheaper kite to consider is the HQ Delta Hawk. Lot's of speed and pull with 1 of the highest wind ratings.Framed so be sure and duck. Better yet stay out of the way especially in 40 plus. Less of a learning curve than power kiting. OSK has a Whizz which is supposedly HQs fastest kite for $85.00. I'd probably ruin it but you folks could fly it. Researching and learning is 1/2 the fun huh . Once you learn aspect ratio the learning about all kites becomes easier.

[riffclown]

5 hours ago, Edmond Dragut said:

15 mph IMO is to much to give any kite to a 13 year old without a good background in 2 ore 4 lines. if wind is 15 mph the gusts may go up to 25 mph. without the knowledge to go at the edge of the wind window fast ore release one of the lines and collapse the kite some bad things may happen. Some drag is fun, 4-5 fits jumps are exciting, how you end them is the problem.

Here you have a video of Symphony 2.1 in condition close to one you ask with a 215 lbs guy

and second of 8 year  kid on Symphony 1.2 on less then 10 mph IMO

have fun and conclusions are yours

Winds in that first video were far higher than 15mph.. I'd estimate 25-30 based on the wind whistling through the lines and the speed the kite was flying. I've flown the beach 2.1 in high wind and it's a hoot!!!

Symphony 2.2.4 in 30mph winds.  Experience does make a huge difference. I'll also agree, under 16 should be supervised until they are familiar with the wind window and pull of the kite.

This was just before buggying .

 

Now in a related thought, Here's a 9 year old flying a 6.5 METER Toxic in light winds..

 

Yes that's a lot of kite, yes, it's a 9 year old flying it and yes, the winds are much lighter than described. My point is with experience will come the skills necessary to pilot the foils safely. Notice safety gear all around and supervision is close by..  FWIW, I wouldn't recommend anyone of any age fly the Symphony (or any foil for that matter) for the  first time in 15-25MPH winds,, fly in 8-10 first.. Once your children's skills increase, higher winds are just another learning experience.  I still say the 2.2 Sport size is a good starting point.. According to Edmond Earlier, it's literally the same 1.8 Size as the Beamer  but will have less pull because it's not set up to be a traction foil. Can still surprise but ANY kite can surprise you in the right conditions.

 

[Twin Roses]

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to give such detailed, thoughtful answers:)  I'm thinking the Synapse 170 is the way to go for now...well once I can justify another kite purchase;)  But I am still torn between that and the Symphony Beach 2.2. Will have to wait a bit while the Quantum and 4-D get some mileage on them.  Thanks again from this newbie:)

[makatakam]

The 2.2 Symphony may be a bit much for them in "stronger" gusty wind, but it is a kite they can grow into, assuming they will grow some. As long as you choose the wind you fly in carefully, they'll be ok. I had a Thunderfoil 2.4 (very similar) that put me on my face and I broke a rib in the process. At the time I weighed 155 pounds and was flying the kite in 15+ wind. Just remember to respect the wind. You've seen what tornadoes and hurricanes can do.

[Twin Roses]

Yikes on the broken rib Makatakam!  I think I'll side on the err of caution and go with the Synapse, but also be vigilant with the wind.  It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt!

[Wayne Dowler]

I advise everyone to throw away any wind "ratings" by the manufacturer and use some personal caution!!  Just because it says "rated to X mph" doesn't mean you should fly it in X mph! Most top ranges are way above what the "average" flier can handle, so too the lows. In the hands of an experienced piiot, yes. Learners or still not confident - no! Use caution! If it feels like too much wind - why risk it!

[Twin Roses]

3 minutes ago, Wayne Dowler said:

I advise everyone to throw away any wind "ratings" by the manufacturer and use some personal caution!!  Just because it says "rated to X mph" doesn't mean you should fly it in X mph! Most top ranges are way above what the "average" flier can handle, so too the lows. In the hands of an experienced piiot, yes. Learners or still not confident - no! Use caution! If it feels like too much wind - why risk it!

Sage advice Wayne    Hoping to enjoy some 8-10 mph winds if spring ever arrives;)  Getting cabin fever, thinking of making indoor kites

[Wayne Dowler]

Many know me on here as a quad flier mostly. I carry 5 different versions of the same kite, just with differing vents. I had a stroke years ago and will swap out sails in a minute, if it feels  overpowered to  me. I call it - "Time to get something with more holes in it!" (more venting) I'd rather be standing, than doing a "Superman" getting dragged down the beach!!!

[makatakam]

Put very simply: If it feels like it's out of control it is. Don't fly it if you can't control it.

[Breezin]

First time a kite knocked me down I wasn't even flying. Looked at the price of a Fearless Light Vented [man I want one]. Got light headed, knees buckled and fell flat on my face. 2nd time flying the Addiction got to laughing so hard forgot to breathe. Woke up looking skyward with a big grin on my face.

[Twin Roses]

3 minutes ago, Breezin said:

First time a kite knocked me down I wasn't even flying. Looked at the price of a Fearless Light Vented [man I want one]. Got light headed, knees buckled and fell flat on my face. 2nd time flying the Addiction got to laughing so hard forgot to breathe. Woke up looking skyward with a big grin on my face.

Lol Breezin, now that is what life is all about

[kevmort]

First time a kite knocked me down I wasn't even flying. Looked at the price of a Fearless Light Vented [man I want one]. Got light headed, knees buckled and fell flat on my face. 2nd time flying the Addiction got to laughing so hard forgot to breathe. Woke up looking skyward with a big grin on my face.

According to my mrs I’d never be happy even if I won the lottery and spent the lot on kites !!!!


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[happysuperbutton]

My Synapse 170 in 10mph-ish winds, with higher gusts. I'm 5'2 115lbs 

I have been window shopping for the 200, I want even more pull but I don't want to be lying down fighting the wind, so the 200 has been in my shopping list for so so long. Haven't bought it yet because after knowing the 170 characteristics, might not have sufficient wind here often enough for the 200 to satisfy my personal needs for enjoyment.

I switch between my Shapsnot 1.2 (equivalent to the Synapse 140?) depending on the wind, I find the Synapse 170 needs a higher minimum amount of wind to get airborne, and even more than the smaller foil to "reset" and take off again.

[Twin Roses]

29 minutes ago, happysuperbutton said:

My Synapse 170 in 10mph-ish winds, with higher gusts. I'm 5'2 115lbs 

I have been window shopping for the 200, I want even more pull but I don't want to be lying down fighting the wind, so the 200 has been in my shopping list for so so long. Haven't bought it yet because after knowing the 170 characteristics, might not have sufficient wind here often enough for the 200 to satisfy my personal needs for enjoyment.

I switch between my Shapsnot 1.2 (equivalent to the Synapse 140?) depending on the wind, I find the Synapse 170 needs a higher minimum amount of wind to get airborne, and even more than the smaller foil to "reset" and take off again.

 Thank you!  That is super helpful info:)  And a great video!

[Breezin]

Had 4 of my grand kids out today. Winds 0 to rarely  8 mph. Kids are 5 to 7 and were so excited when we went out. My snapshot 1.4(170 size) needs 10 to fly. Kept hollering we want to butt slide. A lot !!! Love my Pro Dancer but they think kites should pull . 1/2 hour later one said it's pretty Ponca but you should have got pink. Sigh girls.Can we go chase the boy Alpacas now. They did. The males love it but the females not so much. Kids have all learned quick that messing with the girls gets a big green really stinky gob of spit right in your face.