Russ Wilson Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 I had the opportunity to be part of John's Mega Fly Clinic this last weekend. In watching the videos, I noticed when we were doing an exploding ball I was slow to return to position. Exploding the ball was fine, but getting back to position I was always lagging. I was in the 7:00-8:00 o-clock position of the ball. Anyway, I remember feeling like I was on the edge of applying too much brake that the kite would collapse, which tells me I was flying backward as fast as I could. Any tuning tips for speeding things up? If it helps, I fly a Phoenix Pro which does tend to be a bit slower than the Rev Pro's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Using a Phoenix? They have just a bit more venting, so maybe unless seriously overpowered - use one lower sail. Instead of mid - use std. Or if everyone else is on full vents, use a mid. When I fly with my team of all Phoenixes, all is good, we all agree on a certain sail. But in my team with mixed quads, I usually try to stay a bit overpowered and use more brake in my setup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Wilson Posted March 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Thanks Wayne - good advice for flying a Phoenix. Do you find flying one lower sail helps speed up reverse flight? I'm struggling worried if I give it any more brake I'm going to collapse a wing and create a bowtie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted March 27, 2018 Report Share Posted March 27, 2018 Sell-out and go to magic sticks then, you'll back up as fast as possible and never bow-tie the wings EVER again, (unless you wanted to, done as both wings together it's called a flick-Flak!) Shook mesh weave master-piece kites back-up like they were on rail-road tracks,.... a friend flew my 135% (Frenched & sticks) and then bought one himself, he pulled me on the side and said "all this time I thought it was you!" Ha! No, it's the kite not the pilot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 28, 2018 Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 I don't know for sure about how it affects reverse, but I do know you need enough drive to stay up with everyone. Going one sail stronger and a bit more break, gives you that drive. You can cheat that reversing back to ball! Slide if you need to. Or fly forward and reverse as you get there. Just try to match speeds with everyone and most won't notice. Then you can work on it and come back confident. What is really important is the hover! Being able to hold one in any position. It all comes together as you spend more time on the lines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted March 28, 2018 Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 Russ, remind me of this when we meet up at the end of April - there is a lot that can be done with the altitude of your hands in relation to your body when reversing, pretty sure we can get you over the hump. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 28, 2018 Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 Any videos from this? Links? Seems to have gotten lost on my FB! I know there was something floating around ....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Wilson Posted March 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 Thanks for the great tips guys - they were very helpful. I have a set of magic sticks, but I've never flown with them. I'll give it a try. Was really impressed watching Scott use them. John, I look forward to learning more about body position and how this can be controlled. Wayne, here is probably the best video from last weekend - 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted March 28, 2018 Report Share Posted March 28, 2018 I’ve found that magic sticks are just another tool, nice if someone likes them but not a solution unto themselves. Tuning, technique, equipment, many options available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul LaMasters Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 many different paths lead to that final destination 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 On 3/28/2018 at 8:27 AM, John Barresi said: Russ, remind me of this when we meet up at the end of April - there is a lot that can be done with the altitude of your hands in relation to your body when reversing, pretty sure we can get you over the hump. I wasn't aware of that. Can you explain, or do I have to come to a clinic to get the answer? Never mind, I just figured it out. Keep the hands down near the waist for maximum range of motion -- but I don't think the issue he's having is as simple as that. Hey, Russ, try keeping your hands lower to see if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Wilson Posted March 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 I'll give it a shot next time I fly. For what its worth, I do feel the Phoenix is a bit more susceptible to bowties than a Rev pro. IMHO In a related note, what is the best procedure to use when I do create a bowtie? I usually just flail around and hope to get it on the ground with less than 50 wraps. So far I haven't stumbled on the right way to regain control. Any advice would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 33 minutes ago, makatakam said: I wasn't aware of that. Can you explain, or do I have to come to a clinic to get the answer? Never mind, I just figured it out. Keep the hands down near the waist for maximum range of motion -- but I don't think the issue he's having is as simple as that. Hey, Russ, try keeping your hands lower to see if that helps. Nope. Hands below elbows equates to more brake line tension without direct X-Y input. Hands above elbows equates to more top line tension without direct X-Y input. Literally, the subtle altitude of the hands (and arms) changes the dominance of the top / bottom in a more subtle range without the volatility of a true manual input. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 With this in mind, literally, the thought of lowering the hands induces brake or reverse in smooth fashion. Experiment with this in an upright hover in fair wind and you’ll see what I mean - so half my inputs in that range are induced this way, not directly X-Y. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Always trying this, but never knew the WHY of it. Makes perfect sense. As you lower your hands, I tend to turn the handles out - and - push my thumbs forward - and get smoother reverse! Hot damn!! Russ - I don't think the Phoenix is any more susceptible to wing flip than a "B"pro, made by the same guy! In over a year of flying them - no problems here. (although I also have some magic sticks stuck on my Ashes as a test! Just did it the other day! Results to follow!) SHHH!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 8 hours ago, Paul LaMasters said: many different paths lead to that final destination Ain't that the truth!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Wilson Posted March 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 42 minutes ago, Wayne Dowler said: Russ - I don't think the Phoenix is any more susceptible to wing flip than a "B"pro, made by the same guy! In over a year of flying them - no problems here. I might be wrong then. It could be my flying style has changed since I got my Phoenix's - I definitely fly with a lot more brake these days than I used to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Wayne Dowler said: Always trying this, but never knew the WHY of it. Makes perfect sense. As you lower your hands, I tend to turn the handles out - and - push my thumbs forward - and get smoother reverse! Hot damn!! In fact, rotating your handles toward horizontal actually lessens the above / below the elbow dynamic, relative to how far horizontal you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Dowler Posted March 29, 2018 Report Share Posted March 29, 2018 Gotta remember too - I have a slightly different bend in my handles. Already got a bit of extra brake built in, by them being a bit flatter. But I see what you mean .....I try to stay relatively low with my hands, but still find them creeping up at times! Old habits!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breezin Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Please do not take this the wrong way but I have watched this video many times trying to gain some insight. Just watched it a couple more times. It is hysterical. Tears have flowed. I keep watching the kite far right 2nd from top. The determination of that flyer is FANTASTIC. Keep imaging how I'd be acting if that was me. The many oh no, excuse me, not again, what the hell,so sorry. Kite veers off out of camera range. Pretty soon back it comes wobbling for position. Few more oh no,so sorry what the hells off it goes again. Pretty soon here it comes. Then down it goes taking another with it. First time I watched that I thought I was going to pass out from the laughter. Little bit later much to my delight here they both come.More gales of laughter and a bunch of you go flier,go,go,go.Makes me want to buy a quad and take a road trip. I'd fly with that person anytime. No quit in em. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Wilson Posted March 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Great comments Breezin - I so agree with you. The woman behind that kite was really worried about negatively impacting the rest of the flyers, but I was really glad she stuck it out and flew with us. We were so much better off having her part of the team. I'll fly with her anytime. BTW: The flyer 2nd from the left and 2nd up did a bunch of wonky stuff too. And I sure had fun doing it! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Breezin said: Please do not take this the wrong way but I have watched this video many times trying to gain some insight. Just watched it a couple more times. It is hysterical. Tears have flowed. I keep watching the kite far right 2nd from top. The determination of that flyer is FANTASTIC. Keep imaging how I'd be acting if that was me. The many oh no, excuse me, not again, what the hell,so sorry. Kite veers off out of camera range. Pretty soon back it comes wobbling for position. Few more oh no,so sorry what the hells off it goes again. Pretty soon here it comes. Then down it goes taking another with it. First time I watched that I thought I was going to pass out from the laughter. Little bit later much to my delight here they both come.More gales of laughter and a bunch of you go flier,go,go,go.Makes me want to buy a quad and take a road trip. I'd fly with that person anytime. No quit in em. That’s Phyllis Gribbon, gets better... She’s EIGHTY THREE YEARS OLD. She was my “wingman” in that grid, indeed she went through the whole range of emotions but she persevered really, really well - I’d fly with her anytime too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makatakam Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 11 hours ago, Russ Wilson said: I'll give it a shot next time I fly. For what its worth, I do feel the Phoenix is a bit more susceptible to bowties than a Rev pro. IMHO In a related note, what is the best procedure to use when I do create a bowtie? I usually just flail around and hope to get it on the ground with less than 50 wraps. So far I haven't stumbled on the right way to regain control. Any advice would be appreciated. More likely it is a difference in the sail tension adjustment. Everybody's is a bit different, and crisper, newer and by default flatter and tighter sails are more prone to bowtie. Once the sail begins to stretch with age, it cups more and the tendency to bowtie decreases. You can experience this by loosening the bungees by about 3/8 of an inch and comparing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Wilson Posted March 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 Thanks Makatakam, that could be part of the issue. The Phoenix sail tends to flap a bit so I have my bungees a bit tighter than normal. Maybe my "tuning" is working against me. I'll give it a try with looser bungees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barresi Posted March 30, 2018 Report Share Posted March 30, 2018 When you DO bow tie, best method is to default to a “forward flight” position with your hands, slowly step backward, and the kite should auto-right by the count of 3... At that moment, it’s all about neutral, hover. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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