Water flying: tips please

[Flintfootfilly]

Having flown at the beach this weekend, I am feeling the need to start flying over water.... But don't want to lose a kite to the North Sea.

 

I have seen videos of competent fliers going over and through water, but what do I need to know to do this successfully please?

 

Was thinking of starting on my 30 foot lines, which I love.... And hopefully I won't have to swim out to far too recover any drowned quads! [emoji32]

 

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[FranckPG]

Here’s me trying that exact same thing when I still used to much arm movement.
I was lucky as to how it ended.

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[Wayne Dowler]

http://kitelife.com/2011/12/01/issue-81-hydrodynamics-and-kites/

Should have answers to most of your questions in this ....

[RobB]

Water is no big deal, the waves are your enemies ! I have broken many sticks due to the action of waves, but never lost a kite entirely. Practice your water flying in higher winds, it makes it easier for the kite to take off out of the water. Use a kite stake... when you land in the water & are unable to relaunch, stake the kite & walk the lines parallel to the water line, pulling the kite gently (!) to the shore. Watch out for the waves... If you pulling too hard, that's how the kite will break, take your time & pull it in slow. It's kinda a give & take procedure, like landing a big fish. 

Most of what I said above is related to dual line kites. I've flown 4 line kites in & out of the water all the time, but never had a problem relaunching the four line.

It is super-fun to dunk the kite, let it disappear & then surface & take off ! I rarely come home with dry kites !

[Exult]

1 hour ago, RobB said:

Water is no big deal, the waves are your enemies ! I have...............................................................................Most of what I said above is related to dual line kites. I've flown 4 line kites in & out of the water all the time, but never had a problem relaunching the four line.

The 3-4 times I have tried it this matches quite closely to what I have experienced (minus the QLK, the stakes and knock-on-wood spars). If you are troubled by waves you could try to find a part of the beach that got an area of the water where plenty of rocks/boulders are scattered, that can reduce the wave height (if available). Another thing to try is to feel for the difference of a dry and wet UL. The HQ Shadow dried quite quickly when being used, while my HQ Maestro3 took a bit longer time. The reason for the longer time to dry for the Maestro 3 should be: I stopped using it wet, there was some remaining seaweed that I had "harvested" and that the ripstop of the Maestro3 is thicker than that of the Shadow.

[happysuperbutton]

I had my first water play some months ago too, all I can say is,

 

Be prepared for the weight change.

 

Once the kite hits the water you're gonna feel the weight of water, is completely different from air.

The shock caught me off guard and I panicked, it felt like the water was quicksand and I'd be forced to take the wet walk of shame. But the "flight" dynamics still remain true, just be sure to position yourself with the correct water current direction (like wind direction) and the kite will respond like what you expect.

 

Oh and my test play was in still water, no waves only a light current.

[makatakam]

20 minutes ago, happysuperbutton said:

Oh and my test play was in still water, no waves only a light current.

And that's exactly the way you want to start -- no ocean, no river, no waves, no current, no underwater plants to get stuck in. For your first attempts a fountain or pool may be the best. A good choice is a clear lake with a sandy bottom that is clear of weeds for a good distance from shore. Try it when you have a strong, consistent wind. Dip it part way until you get a feel for the extra weight. When the kite is in the water, a slow steady pull will move it. You can't move it fast in water so don't try. Go on holiday to the Bahamas and take the kite with you is the ideal way to do it.

P.S. -- Take me with you.

[John Barresi]

In depth article...
http://kitelife.com/2011/12/01/issue-81-hydrodynamics-and-kites/


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[John Barresi]

And if you’re a paid subscriber to KiteLife, this tutorial is also available.
http://kitelife.com/forum/files/file/822-rev-tutorial-water-flying/


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[Flintfootfilly]

http://kitelife.com/2011/12/01/issue-81-hydrodynamics-and-kites/
Should have answers to most of your questions in this ....

Thanks Wayne.

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[Flintfootfilly]

"stake the kite & walk the lines parallel to the water line, pulling the kite gently (!) to the shore"

Am I understanding this right? So the lines will be following the edge of the shoreline?

I guess I thought I would need the lines at right angles to the shoreline to gradually walk the kite back out of the water? Confused (but everything else you said seems to make sense. Thanks!)

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[Flintfootfilly]

Haha, the Bahamas sounds a good idea, especially if I need to swim the swim of shame to recover my kite!

Will keep a look out for suitable ponds in the meantime!

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[Flintfootfilly]

And if you’re a paid subscriber to KiteLife, this tutorial is also available.
http://kitelife.com/forum/files/file/822-rev-tutorial-water-flying/


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Thanks JB. Couldn't find this yesterday. Will take a look tonight.

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[John Barresi]

1 hour ago, Flintfootfilly said:

"stake the kite & walk the lines parallel to the water line, pulling the kite gently (!) to the shore"

Am I understanding this right? So the lines will be following the edge of the shoreline?

I guess I thought I would need the lines at right angles to the shoreline to gradually walk the kite back out of the water? Confused (but everything else you said seems to make sense. Thanks!)

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If you’re pulling in line perpendicular to the water’s edge, you either need to keep backing up with your handles (dragging your line) or reeling in (piling up line and risking tangles)... The “stake and parallel” basically sets you up on a dogstake or “L” shape with your lines so that as you walk away from your stake onshore, you’re walking down the lines parallel to the shore (keeping them straight) while pulling the lines in from the water.

[John Barresi]

Quote

My preferred method, actually use a winder from the handles, you can wind it all in and keep your lines straight.

[SparkieRob]

Practice the "dipping" actions on land. Drag a leading edge across the surface. A quick 2 point landing and lift off. Hover at 90° and dip in and out.

I was packing when I first did it but you get comfortable after a few. The first moment of "oops" is scary but depending the orientation of entry it's quite easy to get out again.

I've only played in waves at the beach but everything else in lakes and stuff.

Sent from a Galaxy 8 Far Far Down Under.

[RobB]

I think John described my method better above. The water at my flying spot is almost always rough, and it's important to get the downed kite out of the water as quick as possible. Also, the water is cold 8 months out of the year, and you don't want to go in to rescue the kite. 

This may leave you with the question... Why even mess around in the water when an unplanned landing could result in the destruction of the kite ? Well, because it's fun ! I really enjoy submarining the kite and then have it fly out of the water again, defying most logic...

I don't have any video of flying four liners in the water, but I do have a video of my favorite water kite. It is made mostly out of mylar, so doesn't absorb water and become heavy as others described above...

 

 

[makatakam]

The most important facet of water flying is that the kite must be wet. If not, you will never master it.

But seriously, the only thing you need to know is that it is exactly the same as flying in air only much, much, much slower, plus, you can't see the kite. So, if you practice flying the kite in air with your eyes closed you will learn how the kite "feels". It will "feel" the same in the water, only you can't move it as fast. In some videos, you can see JB flying, but he's not looking at the kite. It is possible to know where and how the kite is going without seeing it. It's not easy, and I have played with, but not mastered it. Once you can fly with your eyes closed, even briefly, then.......

[Flintfootfilly]

The most important facet of water flying is that the kite must be wet. If not, you will never master it.
But seriously, the only thing you need to know is that it is exactly the same as flying in air only much, much, much slower, plus, you can't see the kite. So, if you practice flying the kite in air with your eyes closed you will learn how the kite "feels". It will "feel" the same in the water, only you can't move it as fast. In some videos, you can see JB flying, but he's not looking at the kite. It is possible to know where and how the kite is going without seeing it. It's not easy, and I have played with, but not mastered it. Once you can fly with your eyes closed, even briefly, then.......

Ah yes. Interesting. Occasionally I have had to look away whilst my kite flies near the sun, and there is some level of flying through feel building up with that.

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[John Barresi]

I train blind (looking down or eyes closed) on both dual and quad, as well as with R/L reversed on dual line, the more you know, the easier “vanilla” flying gets.

[khsidekick]

Be careful in moving water such as rivers or the Ocean. When ocean waves change from coming inland to going back out it greatly effects the flow around the kite. Or if your lucky enough to fly off a bridge over a river use caution when dunking your kite, the moving water could grab onto your kite.


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[John Barresi]

@Mike Klaiber was privy to a bridge/river experience I had that matches that description, thought for sure it was gonna eat my kite.

[makatakam]

21 hours ago, John Barresi said:

I train blind (looking down or eyes closed) on both dual and quad, as well as with R/L reversed on dual line, the more you know, the easier “vanilla” flying gets.

Try flipping your quad handles upside-down for some interesting fun.

[RobB]

[mention=10566]Mike Klaiber[/mention] was privy to a bridge/river experience I had that matches that description, thought for sure it was gonna eat my kite. [emoji4]

If Niagara Falls didn't eat your kite and drag you over, I'm sure anything's possible...


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[wakechick]

I had my first water play some months ago too, all I can say is,
 
Be prepared for the weight change.
 
Once the kite hits the water you're gonna feel the weight of water, is completely different from air.
The shock caught me off guard and I panicked, it felt like the water was quicksand and I'd be forced to take the wet walk of shame. But the "flight" dynamics still remain true, just be sure to position yourself with the correct water current direction (like wind direction) and the kite will respond like what you expect.
 
Oh and my test play was in still water, no waves only a light current.

I had the exact same experience several years ago while at a quad line clinic in Long Beach, WA! Landed in the water (NOT on purpose), and as it sank, I totally panicked!!! (probably worth mentioning it was a loaner kite)
Luckily JB was nearby and he told me first to relax, and then instructed me what to do. I couldn't even believe it when the kite popped right up out of the water and I flew away! It was such a cool feeling! Totally different, yet the same!


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