RobB

Have you seen this ?

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Seriously ? Aren't these 'Bazzer's Eyes' ?

I'm not a big fan of Revs, I flew for years before giving in and getting my first Rev. OK, to me, the Rev was a necessary evil, something to fly when the wind was too high for anything else. I warmed to the whole Rev thing because of the great people involved with them. I have a few, know how to fly them (sortof). Recently, when the company was going through some changes, they really started to rub me the wrong way. I could elaborate on a personal experience I had with the 'new' Rep that came out to an east coast festival that was less than pleasant, but won't...

But... is this payback to Phoenix ?

*Sorry if this topic is a little too spicy, mods, feel free to censor me. But, I would like to say before getting deleted... the above looks like a cheap 'knock-off' !

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i was really really close to make a comment on that page but is not worth it. i start to be ashamed for them after that New Classic and New Reflex technology what is use other people rights

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I had a respectful offline conversation with Joe and found out things I did not know regarding the artwork. I expressed my concerns with company experiences, media, direction, quality, and left saddened by a shift to masses and leaving niche. Lastly I thanked him for his impact in my life and how Rev has improved it. Good open bidirectional conversation.

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So in the end is it their's or Bazzer's work? In the thread on FB, he asked them directly - and got no reply that was posted. 

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If it's not copyrighted or patented then it's fair game for personal or commercial use. Period. Look at how Revolution's patents and copyrights were abused by others. What would you do differently?

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15 minutes ago, Wayne Dowler said:

So in the end is it their's or Bazzer's work? In the thread on FB, he asked them directly - and got no reply that was posted. 

Ask Bazzer. Ask Rev. But don't form any conclusions until you have both stories.

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If I remember correctly - Rev seldom had any issues with private use of their designs, only commercial. While not legally wrong - how about morally??

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8 minutes ago, Wayne Dowler said:

If I remember correctly - Rev seldom had any issues with private use of their designs, only commercial. While not legally wrong - how about morally??

Yes, it's morally wrong to copy patented items for personal use, but it's not illegal. Ball can roll either way from the top of that hill.

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2 minutes ago, makatakam said:

Yes, it's morally wrong to copy patented items for personal use, but it's not illegal. Ball can roll either way from the top of that hill.

That isn't what I'm saying. I am saying  that Rev is commercially selling a design from another source. Now if Rev can substantiate their claim to the artwork, great. If not, then they are guilty of doing to others, the very thing they so fiercely defended for themselves.  

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12 minutes ago, Wayne Dowler said:

That isn't what I'm saying. I am saying  that Rev is commercially selling a design from another source. Now if Rev can substantiate their claim to the artwork, great. If not, then they are guilty of doing to others, the very thing they so fiercely defended for themselves.  

That's why I said, "Ask Bazzer". Speculation is how rumors begin. Get the facts. We all know what is moral and legal. We don't always do it. All of us. Period.

P.S. -- Most patents end in 17 years. Copyrights last much longer.

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And I believe that artwork, as an intellectual property, is protected as long as the artist is alive. Correct me if I'm wrong...

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20 minutes ago, Edmond Dragut said:

and after life, intellectual property is going to the living descendants 

For 70 to 135 years after the author's death in this country; less time in others. And that is for books and such. Copyright lengths vary depending on the type of intellectual property. There are also two types of patent: utility and design. The utility patent covers the mechanical aspects. The design patent covers the ornamental aspects of a physical object.

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I have asked Bazzer to comment here. Not sure when, as he is halfway around the globe from us. Hope he can shed some light ....

 

Would also be interested in any light that Revolution would/could shed. 

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My thread on FB offers some feedback from Joe but IMHO he diverts questions to his spin on his business perceptions and did not take the time to speak to design and quality in pro level kites. single printed sheets are the topic and new printing is all to offer right now. Nothing proprietary with many of their sail designs so no issue with Bazzer. Their business plan has not changed even though many Master level builders no longer support Revolution. Happy fliers and great equipment is still offered by them. I asked if weaves were coming out soon. I was hoping for more but got corporate misdirection. He does seem to be a good guy just opposing views on some ways to communicate change to long time users of his products. The bad taste has me planning on looking elsewhere.

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I might be a little late but you are referring to the printed eyes on the rev FB post?

Had to look them up to see it as I'm not subscribed. First glance it looked like a direct printed version of a Bazza Eyes. Closer look, still looks the same...

Muddy waters ahead for sure.

Sent from a Galaxy 8 Far Far Down Under.

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It's starting to look like "New from Rev" = "Old from Rev"

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I thought it was interesting that this Rev post was released a day or two after the posting about the new 'Eyes' kites coming from Phoenix.

There are so many choices now, and I have as many Rev kites as I'll ever need. There are 3 non-Rev 4 line kites that I will be buying in the near future. After the lack of support from Rev, the less than pleasant run-in with the Rev rep, and the shake-up of the company, they lost me...

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My take is that Rev has misjudged loyalty to the maker  and not the "logo". I personally feel that Bazzer is one of the finest makers out there, Anything made by him is quality and well thought out. Rev seems married to this new Reflex technology (it's on all their sail lines), and not everyone is on board with that as the solution. They stopped producing the kites we used, where do they expect us to find replacements if they don't make them? I turned to Phoenix as the solution, because I had several sails wearing out. 

Let me say this - Rev has all the respect i can give for all they have done. But they just aren't making what I need. If I don't like the Ford, I try the Chevy, or Dodge, or Toyota, or Honda, or etc, til I find what suits me.

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Mike - I tried to find your FB post but couldn't.  Apparently Joe may not want his conversation to become public knowledge.  Or I was looking in the wrong place. 

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Several of Rev's replies were in the form of "private messages" and aren't public. 

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Lot of energy going into this, at the end of it all it's up to the end user what they want buy, I got what I needed think we can all tell the difference😉

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