New Member. Cocoa Beach, Florida

[riffclown]

16 minutes ago, Corey Bell said:

My tops are all the way out now, I have been shortening the bottoms until my new leaders come in. It has helped a lot.

Huge difference in control wouldn't you say?? You'll be amazed at how much this small change accelerates your learning curve. 

[Corey Bell]

6 hours ago, riffclown said:

Huge difference in control wouldn't you say?? You'll be amazed at how much this small change accelerates your learning curve. 

Yes huge difference. I am able to control it a lot better. Doing more controlled moves, not darting as much. It still surges quite a bit in 12 to 15 mph winds. I hang at the edges of the window to keep all that wind off the sail. If it does take off, I let it, to keep the stress from stretching the sail. If my new leaders don't come tomorrow, I'll shorten the bottoms more. Just running out of line!!

[Paul LaMasters]

take the bottom leader off entirely and additional to the top one(s), until you find something more appropriate,... you'll have to "thread" the line thru using the sleeving as the captured point on the handle

doubling the difference is a start, mine are at all times at least 3X ratios of tops to bottoms

send me a PM w/your street address and I'll mail you some hi-test bridle line worthy of leaders.  This line can be tied & untied easily so you can put the knots whereever you need them most and remove any excess ones so nothing is dangling down to get snagged.  Eventually you'll have both handles in one hand and and be throwing massive slack lined tricks at the kite whilst blindfolded, ..... you might as well set the kite up for it now and grow into those settings with additional time on the lines!

[Corey Bell]

7 hours ago, Paul LaMasters said:

take the bottom leader off entirely and additional to the top one(s), until you find something more appropriate,... you'll have to "thread" the line thru using the sleeving as the captured point on the handle

doubling the difference is a start, mine are at all times at least 3X ratios of tops to bottoms

send me a PM w/your street address and I'll mail you some hi-test bridle line worthy of leaders.  This line can be tied & untied easily so you can put the knots whereever you need them most and remove any excess ones so nothing is dangling down to get snagged.  Eventually you'll have both handles in one hand and and be throwing massive slack lined tricks at the kite whilst blindfolded, ..... you might as well set the kite up for it now and grow into those settings with additional time on the lines!

Great idea. Thank you, I got wind today and will be headed out soon and will just tie the bottoms to the handle itself. I'll keep you all posted on how it goes. Pm ed you Paul and thank you!! Hahaha you have higher hopes for me than I do...

[Corey Bell]

UPDATE 12-26. Winds a little on the high side, 12 to 16. NNE, I moved the bottom lines all the way up to the handles and just like every one has said, it is a big difference. Smoother, less jitters, less darting. On my beach the wind is quite a bit less at ground level, or head high and below. It took some careful and little inputs to stay aloft at this height. 

I did a lot of inverted hover practice, and turns without moving, I don't know what they're called, but its fun. Some dive stops?? too. I did hit the brakes too hard a few times and would lose pressure. Had a couple hard landings, nothing broke. Looks like more wind tomorrow.

Right now top lines are only 3 inches and bottoms are 0 inches. My new leaders should be in soon and will give them a go. Thank you all for the help.

 

[Paul LaMasters]

Go ahead and add an overhand (temporary) knot into the bridle, while you wait

make it behind the existing position on the brake line (bottom) portion.  Place them both the same distance apart on each side and remember that the knot itself will also use up some line length inside.

A knot a 1/2 inch back, on the bottom bridle attachment point will add some more "down" to you tuning and increase your control.  

Keep practicing inverted flight and get comfortable an inch above the ground hovering this way, until you own it!

[makatakam]

When your new leaders are installed, attach your lines to the furthest knot out on the bottoms and the top lines to the third knot in from the furthest out. You won't like it at first, but you will get used to it and it will do wonders for performance. To launch from an upright stance -- watch the beginner videos -- you will need to give it a good "pop" while simultaneously taking a step backwards. It will be awkward at first, but as I said, you will get used to it and it will become the norm before you know it. 

A good dose of patience and determination is all it takes. Take both with a glass of water when you rise.

Have fun, smile and don't forget to breathe.

[riffclown]

One of the things @Paul LaMasters was suggesting (i think) was to take your old Bottom leaders, larks head them onto your top leaders and literally use them as an extension until your new leaders come in. attach the brakes to the bottom of the handles directly. the top will have 2 daisy chained leaders with the line attached at the end..

[makatakam]

39 minutes ago, riffclown said:

One of the things @Paul LaMasters was suggesting (i think) was to take your old Bottom leaders, larks head them onto your top leaders and literally use them as an extension until your new leaders come in. attach the brakes to the bottom of the handles directly. the top will have 2 daisy chained leaders with the line attached at the end..

Or you can just extend your top lines with whatever cord you can get until they come in. All it takes is a loop and a larkshead per handle. Check out the possibilities at your local hardware store. Shouldn't cost more than a dollar. All you need is a foot or two.

[Corey Bell]

 

My new pro leaders came in today, after  I spent 4 hours at the beach with gusts up to 18. That is I think the top end of the wind range for my reflex EXP.. I do  not "own" the inverted hover yet, I am much more comfortable. I installed the new leaders, the difference from old to new between top and bottoms is A LOT. I am on the third knot from the farthest out on top and all the way out on bottom.

The old difference was 3.25 inches, the new is 5.75 inches.

I'll let you all know how it goes, thank you all again for so much information and encouragement!!

[makatakam]

19 hours ago, Corey Bell said:

 

My new pro leaders came in today, after  I spent 4 hours at the beach with gusts up to 18. That is I think the top end of the wind range for my reflex EXP.. I do  not "own" the inverted hover yet, I am much more comfortable. I installed the new leaders, the difference from old to new between top and bottoms is A LOT. I am on the third knot from the farthest out on top and all the way out on bottom.

The old difference was 3.25 inches, the new is 5.75 inches.

I'll let you all know how it goes, thank you all again for so much information and encouragement!!

Now you can control the kite. I would use a full vent kite in 18mph wind, a mid-vent in anything over 10mph. Strong wind with a standard sail is great if you like the pull, but it does stretch the sail and it can snap spars in two with no warning. For light winds, should you encounter any soon, move the top lines out to the last knot. This squares the sail nearly perpendicular to the wind and puts more pressure in the sail, allowing to harness as much of the energy as possible. Pressure on the sail is what keeps the kite airborne. We're talking 4mph and under. It will be harder to launch from an upright position but super easy from inverted. When you have very steady wind play with moving the lines in and out on the top knots to see how it affects performance.

[riffclown]

We've gone all around with different options and combos to include Handle design and length.. I know you got good leaders. What handles (length and type) did you finally decide to go with?

Flying with full brakes will really give you a lot of extra control with gusts and especially when you start loading the sail and working on drive as well as slack line work.  Also keep in mind that handle settings for one kite might be slightly different than another kite.

[Corey Bell]

6 hours ago, makatakam said:

Now you can control the kite. I would use a full vent kite in 18mph wind, a mid-vent in anything over 10mph. Strong wind with a standard sail is great if you like the pull, but it does stretch the sail and it can snap spars in two with no warning. For light winds, should you encounter any soon, move the top lines out to the last knot. This squares the sail nearly perpendicular to the wind and puts more pressure in the sail, allowing to harness as much of the energy as possible. Pressure on the sail is what keeps the kite airborne. We're talking 4mph and under. It will be harder to launch from an upright position but super easy from inverted. When you have very steady wind play with moving the lines in and out on the top knots to see how it affects performance.

Today first up with pro leaders, and new to me SUL. Top lines on third from end. Light winds, 4 to 6 maybe. I struggled flying it. Thumbs all the way back wouldn't even make it go. I figured this 1.5 to work well in this wind, my technique not so much. About all I could manage to do was slowly fly or hover backwards or hover on it's side (leading edge vertical)

I thought ok I will go back to my comfort zone and I put the reflex EXP back on and brought the top lines in two more knots. Fly for three hours quite well, by now the winds are at 6 to 8, landed on a trash can, my flip flop, a few beach chairs (not mine) just playing around and having a lot of fun. 

I thought ok, went back to the 1.5 SUL, and was able to manage an hour of good flying.

Compared to the Reflex EXP it is smoother, great inverted hover, much steadier, but it takes very small hand movements (not forgiving).

Overall a great day of learning, flying, and entertaining many visitors to Cocoa Beach!!

[Corey Bell]

4 hours ago, riffclown said:

We've gone all around with different options and combos to include Handle design and length.. I know you got good leaders. What handles (length and type) did you finally decide to go with?

Flying with full brakes will really give you a lot of extra control with gusts and especially when you start loading the sail and working on drive as well as slack line work.  Also keep in mind that handle settings for one kite might be slightly different than another kite.

My handles are whatever came with the exp Reflex. 13 inch I think.

I did learn the settings for reflex are different from my lightweight today in 4 to 6 winds. Full thumbs back, lines a touchin, wouldn't keep the light one in the air. It would stay aloft inverted or on edge(leading edge vertical).

After the winds picked up a little I could fly it good, not real good like the REflex in 10 to 14 winds. 

Tomorrows winds 6 to 10, perfect for some trial and error on the new leaders and vented 1.5.

I also learned the Reflex is a lot more forgiving with handle inputs. 

[riffclown]

The springs on the Reflex kites will change the norm for you a bit. Going back and forth between them will give your skills the muscle memory to fly both AND allow you to select what configuration works best for you.  Learning to adjust yourself to the needs of the kite is also part of the equation as you have already found out. Personally I think you are on the right path to become an amazing quad line flier. A couple of pieces of wisdom to go forward..

1. It's never the kite's fault. You've purchased quality products from different sources and you've invested in the proper gear to make them work. From here out, it's YOU.. The kite is doing exactly what you are telling it to do. You just have to learn to tell the kite what you want using the four lines provided.

2. Take care of your gear. It's not a small investment for most people. Know the wind ranges of your kites and try to stay below that upper range as much as you possible can. Once a sail gets stretched, it is stretched. That's a one way trip.

3. Practice and fly with intent. I'm stepping on @John Barresi's line here a bit but the wisdom is very valid. Practice what you want the kite to do and it's an investment into your flying skills. Learn something every time you fly.

4. The latest gadget will not make you a better flier. Only practice will do that. There is no substitute for time on the handles. Skill only comes with practice. The latest gadget or gimmick might make the translation from your hands to the kite a bit better BUT, the kite is still only going to do what you make it do.

5. Find friend to fly with if you can. One on One learning, AND teaching, is the best way to learn and also give back to the sport. Minimize risks to yourself and the public. Fly safely and skillfully. Mind your surroundings and know both your limits and your boundaries.

6. Don't forget to breathe. Enjoy your flying to the max. Making it all work will take the fun out of it.. Give yourself a few minutes each time you fly to just fly and let the kite teach you something. Believe it or not. the kite is also a pretty good teacher if you let it be.

 

[Corey Bell]

Headed out today, winds 10 to 14? Is the forecast ever accurate? Going to play with vented 1.5!!  I noticed a small tear (.25 inch) in the leading edge mesh of my REFLEX  at the fold. Whats a good way to fix using local hardware store?

[Wayne Dowler]

Where on the mesh? Close to the tape? Close to the sail? Middle?

Close to sail  or tape, you can sew it up with a zigzag hand stitch. Middle you could try the super glue method. Lay out the sail, put  tape on the back of the mesh behind tear, Glue that side, wait to dry. Remove tape. Flip and do it again on this side. PS: I've never used this particular method, but heard great things about it. Be sparing with the glue, just enough!

The other thing to do is add a folding strip where you break the kite in 1/3's. I like mine about the size of the vert strip - gives me more room to move my fold point around.

This has always been the weak point on Rev's kites. Why others have gone to a different mesh or are using the "hole" method. The strip is one way of covering that spot up.

[Corey Bell]

3 hours ago, Wayne Dowler said:

Where on the mesh? Close to the tape? Close to the sail? Middle?

Close to sail  or tape, you can sew it up with a zigzag hand stitch. Middle you could try the super glue method. Lay out the sail, put  tape on the back of the mesh behind tear, Glue that side, wait to dry. Remove tape. Flip and do it again on this side. PS: I've never used this particular method, but heard great things about it. Be sparing with the glue, just enough!

The other thing to do is add a folding strip where you break the kite in 1/3's. I like mine about the size of the vert strip - gives me more room to move my fold point around.

This has always been the weak point on Rev's kites. Why others have gone to a different mesh or are using the "hole" method. The strip is one way of covering that spot up.

Thank you Wayne. I will try the super glue since it's close to the middle.I'll let you know how it goes. 

Soon I will sew strips in place.

What fabric and what thread?? Thank you again.

[Corey Bell]

UPDATE 12-31-18

Good wind on the beach, 8 to 10 with some gusts to 13 or 14

Top lines all the way out on the pro leaders, bottoms still on last knot.

I fly my 1.5 vented and it was AWESOME. The best day out so far. Better than expected.

Smooth, responsive, I could put it anywhere I wanted.

On a trash can, on a post holding a volleyball net, on my flip flop!! All around a great day flying!!

Thank you all for the great help and knowledge you so willingly share.

HAPPY NEW YEAR

[Wayne Dowler]

I used dacron fabric on my Zen, JB used a ribbon called grosgrain (sp) for his upgrades. Guterman's thread. Pretty sure riff would agree or add his .02.

[riffclown]

20 minutes ago, Wayne Dowler said:

I used dacron fabric on my Zen, JB used a ribbon called grosgrain (sp) for his upgrades. Guterman's thread. Pretty sure riff would agree or add his .02.

100% agree. Both items are quite suitable. I use the Dacron on LE's I make.. I use the Grosgrain or dacron  for when I'm adding to an existing LE. For the fold points I use the same Dacron ribbon I use to make the LE.  IF the small tear is at the fold points, don't sweat repairing the mesh so much as adding the fold strips. Once you sew the fold strips down the problem is solved for that area.

 

[Corey Bell]

1 hour ago, riffclown said:

100% agree. Both items are quite suitable. I use the Dacron on LE's I make.. I use the Grosgrain or dacron  for when I'm adding to an existing LE. For the fold points I use the same Dacron ribbon I use to make the LE.  IF the small tear is at the fold points, don't sweat repairing the mesh so much as adding the fold strips. Once you sew the fold strips down the problem is solved for that area.

 

Do you get the dacron fabric ( rip stop?) and the guttermans at Walmart, online, or craft store like Hobby LObby??

[riffclown]

37 minutes ago, Corey Bell said:

Do you get the dacron fabric ( rip stop?) and the guttermans at Walmart, online, or craft store like Hobby LObby??

I'll shoot you a PM.

[Corey Bell]

UPDATE... yesterday was relax on the beach with my beautiful wife day. It was glorious!!

Today winds gentle 3 to 5,  flew the lightweight with top leaders on third knot in from end. fun day, a lot of back stepping to keep sail full. I have to learn better ground recovery technique!!. A lot of people on the beach so I had to limit my flight space. I found it easier to fly than my reflex exp!! 

Still a fun time for about 2 hours.

Wind looks  less tomorrow. Time to convert my handles to snagless!!

Happy flying

[Wayne Dowler]

Converting is pretty easy, even if moderately handy with some simple tools. But use strong needle nose or something and don't ruin the vinyl cap, unless you plan to replace it. Be careful and you shouldn't need to.

Recovering ground is pretty simple: take the kite as high as possible and turn it over to inverted. Learn to feather the brakes as it descends and you move forward. You can gain a bunch of ground as you learn to "ride those brakes ".