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Cot51stState

Rev I Tuning/Mod Suggestions

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I appreciate all the suggestions and encouragement. I haven't invested in new rods yet, but there were some small adjustments that made a big difference. Tensioning the sail by tightening the bungee cord at the bottom end caps made the biggest difference. I also changed how the bridle exited one of the upper end caps. Not certain that it had an affect (might have changed how it turned one direction vs. the other), but it made me feel better having them more symmetrical. 

 Biggest thing I learned was to have a large amount of respect for those who learned flying in these fickle inland winds. There's no room for ham fisting your way through a maneuver in a light wind. Keep the sail tensioned and be precise in your control. At this point I could also benefit from some longer 50# lines. Altitude is definitely going to be my friend.

Thanks again for the information and encouragement

-Michael 

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The shortest set of lines I feel comfortable on with the Rev 1 sized sail (Zen) is 50'. It is a bigger wing and can use a bit more room and the increased window, that the longer lines provide. My team regularly flies our Phoenix Ashes (sul) on 85". Gives you a good combo of length without too much drag.

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some kites are just happier on longer lines, the Zen and Dave's indoor AUA come to mind immediately, both love those lengths outside.  120's on 50 pound, so your window is bigger and you have time to really show what that darn thing can do!

Indoors? I like lines as long as possible there too, w/o touching the ceiling or any nearby objects, 28 to 30 feet

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agree with Paul LaMasters, Rev 1 and Zen are super in long lines. i made a 200 fits on 40 Lbs just for them and the wind window is huge 

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Made the trip to the end of North Carolina Hwy 12 and stopped by Flying Smiles in Corolla. Elliot Shook had a full Rev1 SUL frame available. I'm on vacation this week staying with the in-laws who live right on the Albemarle Sound. Made the frame swap last night and was up with the sun this morning. I wasn't in the air 15 minutes when the winds picked up to a consistent 15-17 mph. Popped the standard frame back in and flew 40' lines for 3 hours. The only problem with this kite was the guy on the lines has been over-thinking everything and needed more time on the lines. It got to the point where a good 50% of what the kite was doing was intentional 😁

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21 hours ago, Cot51stState said:

Made the trip to the end of North Carolina Hwy 12 and stopped by Flying Smiles in Corolla. Elliot Shook had a full Rev1 SUL frame available. I'm on vacation this week staying with the in-laws who live right on the Albemarle Sound. Made the frame swap last night and was up with the sun this morning. I wasn't in the air 15 minutes when the winds picked up to a consistent 15-17 mph. Popped the standard frame back in and flew 40' lines for 3 hours. The only problem with this kite was the guy on the lines has been over-thinking everything and needed more time on the lines. It got to the point where a good 50% of what the kite was doing was intentional 😁

You hit a key requirement there -- time on the lines. There's no substitute unless you're a natural. Even the best of flyers only top out around 95% intentional moves if they're not in laboratory-grade wind, and in crappy wind it's more like 70%, so it appears that your ability is doing fine and right on schedule.

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On 6/13/2019 at 7:16 PM, Cot51stState said:

I'm going to close the book on that Rev 1 until I get back out to the beach and can have the kind of wind that can bring the most out of her. 

Contrary to what I said, I'm finding it difficult to stop obsessing about this kite. I've already purchased a lightweight frame. Turns out it is a hybrid with a racing rod for the center leading edge rather than 2-wrap all around. Elliot Shook probably did me a big favor in selecting that for me. 

I think I'm ready to start looking into the bridle now. Does someone have the dimensions for a Rev1 bridle that is supposed to be used with equalized lines. I want to compare that with what came on mine. I'll see where that gets me before I go fully into it with the French Bridle and sissy sticks. I do see myself heading down that path, just not yet (have to save up my allowance 😏). 

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I was doing some comparisons between my Rev1 and JB's old 1.5 with the TK Bridle. In an attempt to duplicate the angle of attack, I measured  from the distance between the vertical rod end caps to the line attachment points. The lower leg was 75% as long as the upper leg on the 1.5. The Rev1 was only about 64% as long. So, I put a knot in the upper bridle for an attachment point and put 3" extensions on the bottom. 

 Tried it out today in 2-3 mph winds with maybe 5 mph gusts. It worked, and she's beautiful! There was finally some presence on the end of the lines in a light wind. Equal measure of drive in both forward and reverse flight. 

Thank you all who have responded to assist me either in this thread or by direct message. There's still a lot of learning, and tuning, and fiddling left to be done  But I've finally reached a threshold where I feel confident this kite can take me further. 

Thanks Again -Michael 

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I think you’re already there but indeed, the Rev 1 flies better with a scaled up 1.5 bridle if you’re comfortable doing the calculations.

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9 hours ago, John Barresi said:

I think you’re already there but indeed, the Rev 1 flies better with a scaled up 1.5 bridle if you’re comfortable doing the calculations.

Did the bridle on the 1.5 have a little extra brake tied into it? I don't have a standard bridle with which to compare. 

 Got to fly the Rev 1 with my bridle modification in some appreciable wind today (visiting the in-laws and they seem to always have wind coming off the Albemarle Sound). It was the first time I was able to achieve a forward launch with the lines attached to the furthest knot on the top leaders. It's a totally different kite now. Before it had a tendency to feel limp except when in the center of the window. It now keeps its authority a lot further to the edge. 

At some point I may undertake an upscaled 1.5 bridle for it. Before I made my modification I had already inquired about a French Bridle. Cath and Elliot didn't have any on hand, but I'm hoping it will be ready when I head out there tomorrow or Thursday.

Thanks for checking in on this post. This kite has been an interesting riddle. Now that I have the bridle sorted, exciting days lie ahead. 

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French Bridle is such a pain to tie-up and takes 50 feet of bridle line, I'd rather pay someone and wait for it as well.  Lately I've been placing a little loop between the bridle and the usual attachment points, so that thing wears out instead of the actual bridle loop. forty kites x 40 bucks a bridle = a couple of new SHOOKs in savings!

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13 hours ago, Paul LaMasters said:

Lately I've been placing a little loop between the bridle and the usual attachment points, so that thing wears out instead of the actual bridle loop. forty kites x 40 bucks a bridle = a couple of new SHOOKs in savings!

Nice idea. I'll definitely be implementing it. I would imagine unsleeved 50# line would start to eat at a bridle over time. 

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I use the same line for the extension as the bridle is made from, 100 pound hi-test generally (40# Dacron sheath OVER 100# spectra woven core, ~ LaserPro product I think)

The extension's loop's line length is about "enough to make an overhand knot + the length necessary to go thru and around the end-caps", maybe an inch and half?  Not much more, as you are altering the bridle's overall handling dynamics with each incremental step of length increased.

I pass the large loop (bridle) thru the small loop (of the extension) and then pull it back thru, I am certainly not applying the connection loop of the bridle to the knotted end of the extension, as that will create a snag point when slack lining. Nope, that knot (of the extension) needs to be rotated around until it can be hidden behind the sail or onto the side of the end-cap.  I tape that knot down tightly, next to the cap and cover it with vinyl electrical tape to prevent any possibility of capturing a slack flying line there.

After modifying the lengths slightly all the way around, you need to pick-up the kite by ONLY the two top attachment points (maybe a friend helping you?) of the bridle and see if all of the legs are tight.  If not, adjust the center attachment point's length first either longer or shorter (closer to the LE) until it happens.  

If the legs going to the tops of the end-caps (on the verticals) are just slightly slack, (all others are tight) that creates an afterburner effect on your jet fighter/kite when you demand full power.  It will go forward steady too, but you can COMMAND max thrust instantly if you play harder on the handles.  If this slack mentioned above is removed, it will be less reactive/surging/leaping to hard commands of forward flight.  I don't allow that slack personally, I'll add another wrap around the end-cap or another knot in the bridle "forward" of the connection point to tighten that leg's overall length, thereby making it shorter.

Lastly a restrictor line needs to be considered/added (French Bridle comes that way) so the center potion of the bridle attachment to the leading edge has NO WIGGLE MOVEMENT Left to Right WHATSOEVER!!!!  This mod allows you to trap the elastic knots and washers for sail tensioning behind the sail and holds the end-cap position rigidly locked in.  It adds a curvature OVER the leading edge sleeve that helps with a glide, kinda' like the reflex mechanism but no crap involved to make it work.

If you use a stock bridle, or any other kind,... all of those legs should still be tight (when suspended by just the top two attachment points of the bridle.  Make it work for you too!)

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On 8/14/2019 at 8:10 PM, Cot51stState said:

Nice idea. I'll definitely be implementing it. I would imagine unsleeved 50# line would start to eat at a bridle over time. 

I thought you were suggesting placing sacrificial material at the fly line attachment points, not attaching the bridle to the frame in that matter. At the moment I don't have any suitable bridle line to work with, but I do have the FSK French Bridle on hand and an unfavorable flying forecast. So I'm taking the plunge! I'll definitely make sure to check for wear at the bridle to frame/bridle to end cap attachment points going forward. Thank you for all your contributions to this thread. -Michael

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Remember, after installation you have to "tune the French bridle" to match your existing handle settings (on the leaders).  This way both (or all) of your kites will have the same settings regardless of which bridle is implemented.

Place the kite inverted and keep altering the bridle's leader lengths (tops or bottoms) until you get the reverse feel that works for you.  I run really long leaders on the top, all the way across/between the gap of attachment points 'cause I don't use sleeving on the flying lines.  My top bridle leader is cut-down to about 2 inches away from the "V" in length and my bottom leaders are as long as possible.

Take the time to really dial it in for YOUR settings and enjoy the differences in flight dynamics.

 

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