for just "playing", i run about 80'. for competition, about 100' is good. a lot of variables too. wind, field size, etc. wow, john barresi. you probably don't remember me, but i competed against you at the nationals in wildwood back in '94. that was the best convention ever. i took 3rd in ind ballet & 3rd in open freestyle. i remember them saying they had gotten you very drunk the night before. ahh, the old days. i still have one of your old team pins too.