Jason Paul

It's been so long that I've tried catches and throws without quad sticks that I don't even remember. With the sticks, I generally only have to take a few steps forward - to clarify though, I usually fly on 35' lines. However, I'd bet that even on longer lines the kite would glide almost all the way to you. There have been a few times when I've actually had to take a few steps back to catch it. Throwing with the sticks is very easy. As you say, it just gently glides out to the end of the lines. You still have to use proper technique, but it's much easier. For catches without the sticks, the kite will just drop straight down at best. However, it can also be blown farther out if there's much wind. So, even if it looks like the kite is directly over your head when you pull the lines, it will get blown downwind - which is what makes you have to run for it. It may seem like the easy way out, but I love the sticks. They make for more enjoyable flying for me, and that's what it's all about. Jason

Thanks John - it seems to be working now. Jason

Since the forum was changed a few days ago, it seems I have to log in every time I come here. I have the "Remember me" box checked at login, and I'm sure I've got cookies turned on because I haven't changed anything. I get auto-logged on at all of my other forums. This has just been happening since the changes. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jason

Here's how I did mine: Photos of homemade handles I posted a detailed build thread on the GWTW forum, but basically used 1/2" aluminum with a 3/8" inner diameter. It's a fairly thick wall, so they're strong. I think each handle started out at 18". I believe I just ordered this in one 36" section from www.onlinemetals.com . I then bent it to an appropriate angle. The trick here was to start the bend at the proper place (I think my bend started about 3" down from the top), and bend to a good angle. I tried to basically match my stock Rev handles. Of course, do your very best to make the handles match each other. Next, I slid on the grips (Hypalon from Mudhole.com). If they're too tight to slide, you can use some rubbing alcohol to make it easier. It will evaporate. I didn't use any kind of glue to hold my grips in place and only get minimal movement. I may have to slide them back 1/2" or so every once in a while. Then, I cut four sections of 3/8" wooden dowel to about 1" - 1.5". I took those sections, and using 5-minute epoxy, inserted them into each end of each handle - effectively gluing the wooden plugs inside the handle ends. I cut/scraped up the wooden plugs a bit to give the epoxy some spaces, since the 3/8" plug into a 3/8" tube is a tight fit. I actually let this dry overnight. Then, I put a 1/2" vinyl endcap on each end. Lastly, I screwed a strong eye hook into each wooden plug, through the vinyl endcap. You can see this in the photos. This makes for a clean attachment, with no dangling parts. I've been using these handles for maybe two years now with no failure. Altogether I think these cost me around $25 and took maybe two hours of actual building time - if that. And I'm not a real handy guy. Hope this helps, Jason

One comment on the bridle. If you move the towpoints inward, it probably will increase the responsiveness of the kite. However, I would venture to guess that moving it in very much would make the kite very oversteerish. IMHO, the SLE makes the 1.5 oversteerish as it is. Moving the towpoints in would make this worse. Reframing as I've desribed above makes the 1.5 significantly more responsive and snappy - without messing with the bridle. It may cost more money to reframe, but it takes less time and you can easily switch right back if you don't like it. Just some thinking out loud - I haven't experimented with the bridle. Jason

A few tweaks I've done to my Rev 1.5: Reframed it with a P300 LE and 5PT downspars. This dropped the weight of the kite by about 1.5 oz. It weighs 8.5 oz. The frame is more flexible, but I kind of like it that way. It performs better in lower winds obviously, and is much snappier and more responsive. Made a set of quad sticks. I really like them. They stiffen the lighter frame a bit, so there's less "bounce". Of course, you can lean the kite on them for easy parking and relaunch. My favorite characteristic though is the glide. Something about the balance or added stiffness of the quad sticks makes the kite glide during catches and throws - it doesn't just drop from the sky like a stick with loose fabric. These two tweaks alone have made a fun kite even more fun. I've also made my own handles with 14.5" throws (with no hogrings). And I've made pigtails that are around 18", maybe longer. I only have 4-6 knots on the tops at the end of the pigtails. I think I have two knots on the bottoms. I made them this long so I would be grabbing dacron instead of spectra for 3-D flying. One handy tweak I've done on my Rev 2, but not on my 1.5 yet, is remove the knots. For information on this Read this page This information is from Rich Durant (woodpekr on the forums). In fact, I believe KiteBuilder has specially made endcaps that are already prepared for this use. If you want to mess with the bridle, I suggest you get in touch with Paul LeMasters (REVflyer) or Harold Ames (kitesquid). If anyone knows about tweaking quad bridles, it's these guys. Hope this helps, Jason

For one way to do a flic-flac - watch this video. What really makes this method work is the long handles. There's quite a bit more to learn from that video as well. I have decent success doing them this way. However, I don't do them much at all. I take good care of my stuff and want it to last. I can just see me popping a little too hard once and having my line cut right through the TE on the kite. For me, it's not really worth it for one trick. I've considered using leaders at the kite end, but haven't done that yet. This thread seems to be going all over the place. Jason

Sadly, Mark lost his dog (Shasta, I believe) to illness a couple of years ago. Yes, I agree regarding the Speed Series' behavior in side slides and reverse flight. A negative on the SS is that it doesn't do very well in lower winds. I know it's not what it's designed for at all, but it's still nice to have a wide wind range. I think the Rev 2 is a little better here. Another thing is the additional rotational mass caused by having two downspars on each side. This makes the kite more oversteerish when the wind is on the low side. And the low side for a SS is realistically a decent 8-10 mph to be fun. It may fly in a bit less, but I don't think it would be much fun unless you really worked at it for a while. Admittedly, I don't have a Speed Series Rev, but I've flown the SS, vented SS and SW. I have a Rev 2 and love it - but would still like a SS sometimes. So the point again is, you'll probably want both. Jason

Hey Doug, Here's a photo of a set to give you an idea: Quad sticks on a Rev 1 I think those are much too long, but you get the idea of how they work. The kite can lean back on them on the ground. They also provide some added stiffness as well as make for some cool glides during catches and throws. Other tricks can be done with them too, for people more advance than me. Jason

I think that 10" would probably be fine for a Rev. Mine are 13" just because Paul (REVflyer) had made a set at that length and they apparently worked. Mine work fine and I would only lose a few grams by shortening them - but I'd have to re-tie the whole setup. Not worth it at this point. Jason

The only SS videos I can think of right off are these: Kite videos by Mark Hughes Marina Green is a Supersonic video, if memory serves. And of course there's the vented SS video. You also might want to check out the Rev 1.5 SUL/Spirit video. It's not an SS, but it's a cool video. If you're looking for something faster than the 1.5, don't forget about the Rev 2. The Supersonic vs. Rev 2 debate has been done to death - mostly by me. They're both fast and fun. The SS is faster, but the Rev 2 can still get pretty fast in higher winds. The SS also pulls more. The Rev 2 is very light on the lines. You're probably more likely to break the SS when the wind is up. I was flying a stranger's Shockwave once - first flight on a speed series. Inverted hover 10' up. Strong gust of wind took the kite from 0 to about 60 instantly, straight into the ground. The kite collapsed in a heap, breaking the SLE and shooting one downspar into orbit, never to be seen again. This all happened within three minutes of meeting the guy. I later found out that the owner's name was Dave. He was extremely cool about it though. Jason

Quad sticks help too. I know, I know. I just like the way my Rev flies so much more with them on. Seriously if you don't want to do that, it's just practice. It takes a light touch. Longer handles make it harder, because there's more throw - more effect on the kite. So, shorter handles will make the kite less responsive, and less likely to wingflip. I'd like to caution you on this though. While using shorter handles makes reverse flying easier, there are drawbacks of course. Longer handles are better for lower winds, better if you want to do things like flic-flacs, and just generally more responsive. Many quad flyers live by the mantra, "Longer is better", or "Go long or go home". It's a personal preference thing. My handles measure 14.5" across the gap, and I love them. When I try to fly with normal Rev handles, the kite just feels sluggish and clunky to me. I don't know if that rambling made any sense though. Let me try this: Shorter handles = Less responsive (less touchy), less likely to wingflip, possibly better for precision. Longer handles = More responsive, snappier, better in lower winds. Drawbacks to both. Personally, I've tried both and consider longer better. There was more of a learning curve though. Jason

Hey Penny, I still use the pigtails and larkshead to attach the lines, it's just that mine look different now. I've got about 18" of plain dacron before the knots start. This is so I pull on dacron rather than spectra for catches. I've heard rumors of the secret ninja knot for attachment, but I don't know it. And sorry - to clarify - I didn't mean to say NO wrist movement. I still use my wrists. What I mean is that most of my control comes from relaxing and gripping my hands. This is rather than holding a steady grip on the handles and moving my wrists up and down to control the kite. Dave's video explains this - and of course it's much easier to understand on video than in text. Jason

Another thing that helps with this is to make pigtails on the handles. Look here: http://community.webshots.com/photo/451923...451935667KBPQEM Mine don't look like that any more, but you get the idea. Make lengths of line (150#-200# dacron or bridle line) and tie knots around an inch or so apart. Make sure that the knots are equal on both sides!! The top and bottom don't have to match. I currently have 4-6 knots on the top, but only two knots on the bottom (and I still only use one knot anyway). But the tops have to match each other, and the bottoms have to match each other. Make sense? You need your right handle to match your left handle. This is even more important if you're new. When you set the kite up, you larkshead your flying lines to the knots youve made in the pigtails/leaders. What this does is allow you to move the top line closer to or farther away from the handle, adjusting the angle of attack for wind conditions. If the wind is low, attach to a knot closer to the handle. This pulls the leading edge closer to you, effectively giving you more "gas". In addition, longer handles will help with low wind performance. My homemade handles in the photo above have a throw of 14.5". As for hand position, I hold my handles with my index fingers resting right at the tops of the grips - with a very relaxed grip. You steer by gripping and releasing the handles - not by moving your wrists. If you really like flying quads, I highly recommend Revolution's Advanced video with Dave Shenkman. It's a great instructional video. Hope that helps. Jason

I have a set on my 1.5 and love them. I use a P300 LE rather than the stock SLE and get a MUCH better wind range. The P300 LE is quite a bit more flexible than the SLE, which I kind of like, actually. The quad sticks help stiffen it a bit. It doesn't flex as much as John's Rev 1 flexes in most of his videos. I wouldn't say that extra mass helps with precision. In fact I would say the opposite. However, my Rev with the P300 LE and quad sticks feels much better to me than the SLE. To me the SLE feels clunky and has too much rotational mass, requiring too much "opposite stab" to stop rotations. The P300 LE is better about this because it's so much lighter overall. It's MUCH snappier. One of the coolest/best advantages offered by the quad sticks IMO is the change in behavior in glides. For catches and throws, the kite glides toward and away from you rather than just dropping out of the sky like a rock. It looks very nice and keeps you from having to run to the kite - at least not as much. I don't do too many tricks with my Rev, but I have noticed that the sticks help it axel flatter. Mine are about 13" I think. They could probably be shorter. For a 1.5 I probably wouldn't make them much shorter than about 10", although I don't know for sure. They have to be long enough to keep the kite standing up on the ground inverted. The shorter they are, the easier it would be for the wind to knock it over. Also, I'm pretty sure I used .157 tubes. BTW, my 1.5 weighs in at 8.5 oz. Jason

Dealing with oversteer is just something that comes with practice. You have to give a little stab of the opposite side to stop the rotation. I've never flown an M-Quad, but I've seen videos, and can tell from the design that it is probably THE most unstable commercial quadline kite on the market. I'm sure it's fun for a fairly experienced flyer, but looks to me like an exercise in frustration for a newbie. Of all the kites in all the kite fields in all the world, the M-Quad is the last quad you should try to learn on. As far as it oversteering in one direction more than the other, it could be a number of things - unequal line length, the bridle could be slightly off, or even a problem at the handle end (the handle or the operator ). BTW, I know it's not the only one your working with, but I would expect a hard time with it. Jason

I haven't. I never think to try it when I'm out on the field. Maybe next time. Jason

If your kite is so old that it says "Neos Omega" on it - stop flying it immediately! Have you considered quad sticks? I made a pair for my 1.5 and love them. They do much more than just help your kite stand up by itself. There's a bit of discussion about them in the current "Homemade Rev" thread. I still use a stake for setup and breakdown because I like tension on the lines when I'm doing this. However when I'm flying and just want to park the kite on the ground for a while, I don't have to put the handles on the stake. The sticks let it stand up wherever I want. Jason

That's a good photo, but the sticks don't have to be that long. I think the ones I made for my 1.5 are around 13", and I just used a plain standoff connector for a dualie to tie the lines to. I think I used .157 spars for the sticks. Also, my 1.5 is framed with a P300 LE and 5PT downspars. With the LE being so light, I don't feel that the sticks add any noticeable inertia. BTW, switching the SLE with P300 saves a LOT of weight. The sacrifice is flex, but I actually like a bit of flex. If you've seen some of John's videos, my 1.5 doesn't flex as much as his 1 does. In addition to helping your Rev stand up on its own, the sticks also do a few other things. First, they add overall stiffness to the frame if you're using a lighter LE like I am. I still get some bounce, but it's not bad. Secondly, the sticks somehow provide awesome glide for 3-D flying. You'd have to see it to know what I'm talking about. If you've ever tried to pull a Rev down for a catch, or watched Dave Shenkman's Advanced video, you know that when you pull those lines the kite drops like a rock and you better start running. With the sticks and LE I have on mine, the kite will glide to me. I fly on short lines mostly (35'), but I actually sometimes have to back up a few steps to catch the kite. And when I throw it back out, it's a beautiful slow-motion glide back out to the end of the lines. BTW, I just happened to weigh my kite a couple of weeks ago - a 1.5 framed as I described above - and it weight 8.5 oz. Also, I've flown this same kite in winds up to around 20 mph with no problems. Sorry if this has gotten a bit off-topic from the original question. The mods described above were done on a "real" 1.5. However, I did make my own Rev 2 sail. Jason

I did something similar with my Rev 2. I used a 3-piece LE with three equal-sized P100 spars, and also used P100 for the downspars. This made a significant improvement in low winds. However, I think the P100 is one size too small for the center. At one point the kite stalled and fell out of the sky from about 20 feet up, and the center P100 snapped in half. You can save a significant amount of weight by simply replacing the downspars. I'm currently using P100 downspars and a stock Rev 2 LE on the Rev 2 I made myself, and it works fine. The P100s are sturdy enough I think for normal winds too, since there's not much pressure on a Rev 2 sail. Another thing to think about when you go to a 3-piece LE is that you add a ferrule, which is adding more weight and more rotational mass - since the ferrules are farther away from the center of the kite. It's probably not a big deal. But, if you get to the point where you're counting grams, it may matter to you. Also, if your ferrules are right at the downspars as you say, you might consider using solid ferrules if you aren't already. Experiment and see. Jason

If your skills have gotten to the point where you're not crashing all the time, then you may want to go ahead and get an SUL. You'll definitely get a lower wind range than you will with the EXP. Jason

Zilker is not the best place to fly IMO. The wind seems to be pretty bumpy most of the year since it's almost surrounded by trees. When the wind is from the north (festival time) it's not too bad because it's not quite as obstructed. My little field is just a middle school (Bedichek), but it's close to my house, it gets fairly clean wind, and there's usually enough room for me to fly. I'm usually there on Wednesdays from around 7:00-7:30 until around 8:30-9:00, and also on Sundays from around 4:00 to around 6:00. Feel free to show up. I'm usually the only kite flyer there. Jason

If you're an Austinite as in Austin TX, you're in luck. I'm also in Austin (south), and fly at William Cannon and S. 1st about twice a week. Also, there's a local club that meets on the third Sunday of each month at Old Settler's Park in Round Rock (across from the Dell Diamond). There are always a few quad flyers there. I generally can't make it too much farther than my normal field, but there are plenty of flyers up north. Also, you probably know Tye at World Wind Kites, but if you don't - get over there. He's a great Rev flyer and very nice and helpful. Feel free to ping me at JPaul_tx@sbcglobal.net Jason

It seems that others I've read from who have made new Rev 2 sails and nixed the mesh said they really couldn't tell a difference. I'm making a new sail for mine and don't plan on using mesh either. Jason

You can tighten them up. You want them fairly tight - but not overly tight. Jason